Gregory PAUL Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Hello there, I have planned a trip to Indonesia during april month. I will take my favourite AAton camera with me and I want to shoot some pictures there. Altough I plan to carry 2 or 3 400' 16mm rolls with me. I do know that my motion picture rolls should not meet X-rays in airport... But I'm worried about custom controls. I'll carry a changing bag with me and ask for a hand control. But do the guys at customs agree everytime to inspect the rolls by hand ?? Can they refuse to do so ? I'm afraid of that problem. I should meet at least 8 controls during my trip, it should be boring if each time inspecting my rolls by hand is a problem... So I wonder if somebody has an experience or advices about that. Thanks for help, I'm really worried about that ! Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominik Muench Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 Hello there, I have planned a trip to Indonesia during april month. I will take my favourite AAton camera with me and I want to shoot some pictures there. Altough I plan to carry 2 or 3 400' 16mm rolls with me. I do know that my motion picture rolls should not meet X-rays in airport... But I'm worried about custom controls. I'll carry a changing bag with me and ask for a hand control. But do the guys at customs agree everytime to inspect the rolls by hand ?? Can they refuse to do so ? I'm afraid of that problem. I should meet at least 8 controls during my trip, it should be boring if each time inspecting my rolls by hand is a problem... So I wonder if somebody has an experience or advices about that. Thanks for help, I'm really worried about that ! Gregory call up the security office a few days beforehand, youre not the first peson travelling with film, they know how to handle it and if you declare it in advance, the whole procedure should be quite easy and uncomplicated :9 good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 7, 2006 Share Posted March 7, 2006 I travel with film all the time and I just carry the film in my carry on and let it get x-rayed. I've never seen even a hint of x-ray damage on the film. Those security x-rays won't damage film below 800ASA. Think about it, do airports want people screaming that the x-ray machine ruined all of their vacation pictures? Don't put your film stock in your checked luggage that is for sure. Take my advice you are asking for trouble if you refuse to let your film cans get x-rayed and you ask for a hand inspection. The people who work airport security can't be bothered with this, and they'll tell you over and over again that their machine will not damage your film, which is true. Plus you really run the risk of having your film ruined through the whole process of opening the film in the changing bag and letting non film people stick their hands in there. I've been through plenty of airports in the "developing world" as well and also never had my film damaged. Even the poorest countries these days have fairly modern x-rays for the carry on items. What you're proposing isn't worth the hassel, trust me, I have taken film through the carry on x-ray machine over 30 times and never once even had a hint of an issue on the film. Having motion picture stock scanned is no different from stills stock. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted March 8, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted March 8, 2006 Some guidelines: 1. Checked baggage WILL get x-rayed, usually by a high intensity scanner type device. One pass will ruin unprocessed film. 2. Carry-on baggage devices are usually relatively low dose, but can cause noticeable fogging of high speed films in only a pass or two. All too often, the inspector sees a suspicious item, and scans it several times, so you can quickly have several passes. So if at all possible, request a hand inspection. In the USA, TSA guidelines allow requesting hand inspection of ANY motion picture film so it will not be subjected to x-rays. 3. Lead bags offer no real protection --- the opaque unknown object will likely be scanned multiple times. 4. Call the airport security office to determine procedures. Leave plenty of time for a hand inspection. 5. Carry a changing bag, and a practice roll for the inspector to know what they are feeling for. 6. Suggest and welcome inspection methods that will not harm film -- chemical or dog "sniffing" for explosives, use of a magnetometer "wand", etc. 7. Carry a professional ID - ASC membership, union card, etc. in addition to plenty of other ID. 8. Be polite and patient. They are just doing their job to protect you and the other passengers. 9. Whenever possible, buy and process film locally, rather than having to carry or ship it. 10. Whenever possible, consider shipping film via ground or commercial carrier -- e.g. FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc. Work closely with the carrier to properly label and manifest the shipment. Avoid situations that are likely to put the package into the cargo hold of a passenger plane (e.g., "will call" at a passenger airline) 11. Carry a copy of the latest TSA regulations to help convince inspectors to hand inspect: http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=090005198004a860 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Bryant Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I travel with film all the time and I just carry the film in my carry on and let it get x-rayed. I've never seen even a hint of x-ray damage on the film. Those security x-rays won't damage film below 800ASA. Think about it, do airports want people screaming that the x-ray machine ruined all of their vacation pictures? Don't put your film stock in your checked luggage that is for sure. Take my advice you are asking for trouble if you refuse to let your film cans get x-rayed and you ask for a hand inspection. The people who work airport security can't be bothered with this, and they'll tell you over and over again that their machine will not damage your film, which is true. Plus you really run the risk of having your film ruined through the whole process of opening the film in the changing bag and letting non film people stick their hands in there. I've been through plenty of airports in the "developing world" as well and also never had my film damaged. Even the poorest countries these days have fairly modern x-rays for the carry on items. What you're proposing isn't worth the hassel, trust me, I have taken film through the carry on x-ray machine over 30 times and never once even had a hint of an issue on the film. Having motion picture stock scanned is no different from stills stock. R, I have known plenty of people who have had 400 speed film either ruined or faded by airport security. Maybe the canisters help shield the effects to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted March 8, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted March 8, 2006 I travel with film all the time and I just carry the film in my carry on and let it get x-rayed. I've never seen even a hint of x-ray damage on the film. Those security x-rays won't damage film below 800ASA. Think about it, do airports want people screaming that the x-ray machine ruined all of their vacation pictures? Don't put your film stock in your checked luggage that is for sure. R, Richard, You usually shoot on 50 asa stock, don't you? Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted March 8, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted March 8, 2006 Take my advice you are asking for trouble if you refuse to let your film cans get x-rayed and you ask for a hand inspection. The people who work airport security can't be bothered with this, and they'll tell you over and over again that their machine will not damage your film, which is true. Plus you really run the risk of having your film ruined through the whole process of opening the film in the changing bag and letting non film people stick their hands in there. R, I don't agree with this at all. I've had 400ASA film badly fogged by an x-ray machine. I forgot to pull it out to have it hand checked and it was not nice when I got it developed. Almost every time I fly I have unprocessed still film with me, and I have it hand checked every time (except in that instance when I forgot). It only takes a few minutes. They will ask you if it's higher than 800ASA, and sometimes say that they won't hand check it if it isn't, but if you're friendly and tell them that it's professional film and you can't risk it, they'll always do a hand check for you (at least in my experience). You could also bring a roll of TMAX 3200, or another high speed stock, (which I normally have anyway) and then you can tell them that you have film over 800 ASA without lying. Letting my film be x-rayed is not something I'll ever let happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delorme Jean-Marie Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 i had hand check in toronto, paris, cairo and alger airport no pb toronto was 15/70 after camera test at imax corp. i was scared about the size of the neg in the x-ray. my main pb was that i had to prove the us customs i wasn't entering the country to work illegaly. in fact i was doing one day stop in san diego to wait for the director and then move to film in mexico. It took me the hell of a time to prove i was not going to do something!!! finally i missed my plane for LA and had to drive down to san diego and i'v been busted by the highway patrol!!!! it was definitely not my luckyest day :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Well grimmett what can I say? I know I'm not lying and I know I have taken at least 100 rolls of film through the carry on baggage scanner. On my trip to Antarctica my film was scanned six times, no problems at all, the film was perfect. As for film speed I usually shoot 50ASA, but I take 500ASA on several occasions for night shots, the 500ASA has never been damaged either. All of my Las Vegas night footage was shot on 5218, scanned numerous times and no issues at all. So I guess those who want hand inspections can continue to do so, me, I'll keep doing things the way I've been doing them. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted March 9, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted March 9, 2006 So I guess those who want hand inspections can continue to do so, me, I'll keep doing things the way I've been doing them. R, Unfortunately, I think you are likely to quickly change your mind when a job gets ruined by X-Ray exposure, which WILL happen someday if you continue to put unprocessed film through the baggage scanners. Since the TSA is so willing to hand inspect professional motion picture film, why not play it safe? A few extra minutes to go through airport security may save a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timHealy Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 (edited) I shot some things in Greece last year and while traveling we went through New York >Athens >Santorini >Crete >Athens >Berlin >Frankfurt >New York. I was able to hand inspect in the US and Germany fairly easily, with one or two TSA inspectors who needed convincing, but the Greeks were a pain in the ass. It was as if they were cavaliar about my concerns about the film I was carrying. One Greek agent was careless almost dropping the lens I had in my carry on case. Not a great experience. TSA inspectors are not all created equal. In Greece I wound up putting it through the machine several times instead of making a scene. I was relieved when the film was processed and transferred without any problems. Travelling with film and equipment can be nerve racking. Personally, I looked into buying and processing in Greece but Kodak film in Athens was approx. twice as much as in NY. So I carried it with me from NY. Best Tim Edited March 9, 2006 by heel_e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted March 9, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted March 9, 2006 So I guess those who want hand inspections can continue to do so, me, I'll keep doing things the way I've been doing them. R, Are you shooting just for yourself, or is someone paying you to shoot? If you're shooting for yourself then of course you can, and will, do whatever you want, but if someone is paying you to shoot and you're putting their film through x-ray machines......well, in my opinion that's just being irresponsible and lazy. The five minutes you save by not hand checking isn't worth ruining a whole roll of film in my opinion.....but maybe that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolfe Klement Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I mentioned this before but I followed all the guidelines - took a changing bag etc and at Heathrow they refused to hand search my film. I even had printouts from BAA on it. On arguing more and more they basically threatened to arrest me under section 53 of the Terrorist Act (the Vague clause) I once went through LAX fine but another time they refused to hand search my 2 cents Rolfe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Ok so what have we learned from: Rolfe Clement: "On arguing more and more they basically threatened to arrest me under section 53 of the Terrorist Act (the Vague clause) I once went through LAX fine but another time they refused to hand search" And heel_e "TSA inspectors are not all created equal. In Greece I wound up putting it through the machine several times instead of making a scene. I was relieved when the film was processed and transferred without any problems." In both of these cases the gentlemen requested a hand search, Greece and Heathrow respectively, in each case they got a real hard time from the inspectors, ended up getting the film scanned any way, and then discovering that the film was fine. Sorry to Grimmett and John_P_Pytlak, but clearly these experiences support my position. By refusing the x-ray and demanding the hand search you are risking a conflict with the authorities and possibly risking having your film scanned multiple times in the end as they try and make sure you don't have any thing bad in those cans. I can see that travelling in the USA from airport to airport you can get away with hand searches by the TSA. News flash, the TSA only works in the USA!! Try demanding a hand search of your film in Singapore or Thailand and see what happens. Give them the famous line: "I'm an American you can't do this to me." And yes Grimmett whether I shoot for myself or some one else I follow the same procedure. Those carry on bagage scanners will not damge film. I re-iterate that if they did people would have their vacation pictures ruined and then there would be hell to pay. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 What happens when you send your film by post clearly marked DO not x-ray.. From the UK To america? for instance.. FOR processing.. DO they X-RAY it anyway or do they hand inspect and DO you take a high risk ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chien Huey Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Does the TSA have changing bags there or do you have to bring your own? I was 2nd AC on a music video where the producer flew the film back to Miami for processing (not sure why since NY has lots of labs). When I asked him whether or not he had a changing bag, he wasn't sure what I was talking about. I'd try not to fly with unprocessed film but in this case it wasn't my call and I'm nervous because he could let the TSA x-ray it and then go "the 2nd flashed all our film!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted March 9, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted March 9, 2006 Does the TSA have changing bags there or do you have to bring your own? I was 2nd AC on a music video where the producer flew the film back to Miami for processing (not sure why since NY has lots of labs). When I asked him whether or not he had a changing bag, he wasn't sure what I was talking about. I'd try not to fly with unprocessed film but in this case it wasn't my call and I'm nervous because he could let the TSA x-ray it and then go "the 2nd flashed all our film!" Hi, For sure you must bring you own changing bag, and a short end in a can to show them what they can expect! Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chien Huey Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Hi, For sure you must bring you own changing bag, and a short end in a can to show them what they can expect! Stephen Thanks Stephen. I will keep that in mind the next time a similar situation comes up. I guess they can always FedEx my smaller bag back to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Javor Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) when in doubt go to the source... http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/sum_film.htm http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/...s_airport.jhtml http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml Edited March 10, 2006 by zekthedeadcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Bryant Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 We can thank Homeland Security for all these hassels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted March 10, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted March 10, 2006 In both of these cases the gentlemen requested a hand search, Greece and Heathrow respectively, in each case they got a real hard time from the inspectors, ended up getting the film scanned any way, and then discovering that the film was fine. Sorry to Grimmett and John_P_Pytlak, but clearly these experiences support my position. And yes Grimmett whether I shoot for myself or some one else I follow the same procedure. R, I guess this is your way of saying, "I told you so". But that's not the point. The point of my posts was to warn people that x-ray machines can damage film, not to be "right". I never said that x-ray machines ALWAYS fog film. I'm sure there are plenty of instances when they don't. I just think it would be a shame for someone to follow your advice and find out the hard way that you were wrong. I understand that inspectors around the world are different, and that some airports and inspectors will pose problems as far as hand inspection is concerned. That can't be helped. In those situations you either have the film x-ray'd or you don't get on the plane. But to decide to not even try to get film hand inspected is lazy in my opinion, and it's an unnessary risk. And I'm very curious as to why you are so adamant that you are right. I can't see any reason for your attitude other than you want to "win" this discussion. The only way to win is to always do your best to protect your investment, or the investment of your employer. What's the point of taking unnessary risks? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) What I would like to know is posting a better way of getting through security? If its marked do not xray Undeveloped film? Edited March 10, 2006 by Mark Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted March 10, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted March 10, 2006 What I would like to know is posting a better way of getting through security? If its marked do not xray Undeveloped film? Hi, Kodak & Fuji deliver film in Switzerland via the mail! With Air Mail & customs involved I think there could be a risk. Where possible I try to buy film and process in the country I am visiting. However I have usually been able to get a hand inspection, but have not had any fogging on the 2 times, that was not possible. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Hi, Kodak & Fuji deliver film in Switzerland via the mail! With Air Mail & customs involved I think there could be a risk. Where possible I try to buy film and process in the country I am visiting. However I have usually been able to get a hand inspection, but have not had any fogging on the 2 times, that was not possible. Stephen I agree.. But America seems to have film houses that do better deals, facilities and more helful.. Here in the UK the smaller Film houses are expensive and limited in what they can do.. The bigger ones are not interested on small scale deals.. Just my experience so far.. I imagine an awful lot of film goes through the post and yet there is not many people complaining? Surely they must have a refined system in place (By now)for dealing with posted undeveloped film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvfante Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 We just completed a film shoot in Europe, Costa Rica and the US last Nov and Dec. 05. After discussions with Kodak reps in the US and UK, we were given, the following suggestions: In Europe, the scanners for hand-carried film are not a problem, but checking film as checked baggage is not recommended, especially in and out of Heathrow. The Kodak tech rep in London assured us that many productions were hand carrying film on a daily basis all over Europe, so we took his word for it and safely carried rawstock and exposed footage with us (when we had to) as carry on while we were working in Europe. In the US, Kodak's advice was "don't handcarry or check anything on a commercial flight, send it Fedex". So we did just that. Our exposed film (ASA's 100 & 200) was indeed sent via Fedex from Europe, New York and Costa Rica back to our lab in Burbank without any problems. If it's any consolation, it's been our experience that most emulsions of Kodak film are available worldwide at roughly the same price as in the states. Even in Costa Rica we were able to buy it from a local reseller. Where you pay more is in countries with high VAT's, and can discuss this with the local Kodak rep on reclaiming that when you leave the particular country. Hope that helps... John Fante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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