Modo Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 I would like to know what's the procedure of tying in into a residential building's breaker box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steven Beverly Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Carefully :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted May 13, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 13, 2006 Hi, Basically, if you have to ask on an internet forum, you don't know sufficiently what you're doing. I wouldn't attempt it, and I know absolutely precisely what the procedure is! Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Workman Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Yeah you can't learn how to do a tie in on the internet. Work as an electrician on set for a gaffer and after he shows you how to tie in like 5 times ask him if he thinks you are competent enough to do it. If he says no don't try it, you can seriously hurt yourself and anyone else working with the power distrobution. Stick with the camera department, you'll live longer :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Train Saihati Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Hi, Basically, if you have to ask on an internet forum, you don't know sufficiently what you're doing. I wouldn't attempt it, and I know absolutely precisely what the procedure is! Phil An absolute second. If its not in your budget to hire a fully qualified spark for a day to tie in, then find another solution to your problem that does not involve dealing with bare, live, high voltage electricity cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted May 15, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 15, 2006 Maybe renting a generator would be a better idea. . . or a lot of stingers run to friendly neighbors. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Wendell_Greene Posted May 15, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 15, 2006 I would like to know what's the procedure of tying in into a residential building's breaker box. Sorry, but this is a forum for cinematography, not assisted suicide. Only a certified licensed, bonded, insured and qualifed Electrician, assisted by another qualified electrician should ever attempt to a tie in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chad Stockfleth Posted May 15, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 15, 2006 Does anyone else smell barbacue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Sandstrom Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 actually, i'd also like to know but i'd never do it myself. maybe you can explain in layman's terms for those of us who are curious and just want to understand the gaffer's work a little better? you don't have to give enough information to explain for somebody to actually try it, do you? /matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted May 15, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 15, 2006 (edited) actually, i'd also like to know but i'd never do it myself. maybe you can explain in layman's terms for those of us who are curious and just want to understand the gaffer's work a little better? you don't have to give enough information to explain for somebody to actually try it, do you? /matt In very short, imprecise terms, you replace the house's breaker box with your own distribution box, which is similar in idea but has heavier circuits. That lets you distribute power differently than the house would let you, and to run larger units than house power would let you. If you have to know more, go to an experienced, licensed electrician. Chances are, though, they will say no to teaching you. It's not something to brush off lightly. Edited May 15, 2006 by Christopher D. Keth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Wendell_Greene Posted May 15, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 15, 2006 Read pages 286-293 of Chapter 10 [Power Sources] of the Set Lighting Technician Handbook by Harry Box, for detailed information, a diagram and several warnings on the subject of doing a tie in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Sandstrom Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 If you have to know more, go to an experienced, licensed electrician. Chances are, though, they will say no to teaching you. i know, that's why i had to ask. i've worked as an assistant electrician/grip on dozens of projects and you're always sent off to hang some lights or roll up stingers whenever that kind of stuff is about to happen. maybe i should ask the one i hire for one of my own gigs and don't pay him until he lets me in on some stuff... ;-) /matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Hal Smith Posted May 15, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 15, 2006 Don't tie in directly, plug into to existing range and dryer outlets. Use the appropriate matching plugs and build a residential style surface mount panel box using individual breakers for circuit protection and on/off switches, on for the range outlet, and one for the dryer outlet. A residential range/dryer outlet is 240 volts single phase which is actually two 120 volt to ground circuits back to back. I think most dryer outlets are 30A and most range outlets 50A. In a modern house with both, you'd have somewhere around 18kW of power available if you balanced the load between both sides of the 240 volt circuits. As numerous posters have noted - find a qualified electrician or gaffer to build the box if you're not experienced in working with electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Paul Bruening Posted May 16, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 16, 2006 Hey, Wendell's clue is good. I've got Box's book and it's fantastic. No one here can really give you instructions due to the considerable liability involved. Many here will tell you to just stay away from it. Some of the old-timers will share that electricity is a knowable and workable power source. I've done more tie-ins than I can count and have never been shocked. Both groups are right. however, DON'T JUST "GIVE A TRY". Learn on the set from a well experienced person. Even a licensed electrician won't know the particular tricks on how to do it and not destroy property and kill folks. Tie-ins are always dodgy and half-assed connections. Yet, they can be done safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hall Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Tie-ins are always dodgy and half-assed connections. I don't know about that. Unlike you, I can count the number of times I've performed a tie-in, and I would never describe my connections as 'dodgy or half-assed'. As long as your cables can't be tripped on, kicked, or otherwise pulled out with moderate force, then they should be as reliable as the the rest of the household circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Pritzlaff Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Still - its not something to be taken lightly, and should not be done based on information gathered from online forum discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william koon Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 I don't know about that. Unlike you, I can count the number of times I've performed a tie-in, and I would never describe my connections as 'dodgy or half-assed'. As long as your cables can't be tripped on, kicked, or otherwise pulled out with moderate force, then they should be as reliable as the the rest of the household circuits. just curious............... Is 'tie in' legal ? I thought you need the electricity supplier company to do it for you. In my country, the meter is sealed by the supplyer. You can be fined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 just curious............... Is 'tie in' legal ? I thought you need the electricity supplier company to do it for you. In my country, the meter is sealed by the supplyer. You can be fined. Technically they're not legal unless performed by a lisenced electrician... Meaning someone who is legally designated to do this. ANd it makes sense too--since electricity is something we should only let train professionals handle... However most productions (particularly indie productions) ignore this...and they perform tie-ins all the time Just don't let the autorities know about it. Anyways I hope this answers the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hayes Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Tie ins are potentially very dangerous and crew people die because of them. A couple of years ago a crew person died walking by a tie in. The power arced from to box to the c-stand he was carrying and killed him. Witnesses said he didn?t connect with the box it arced. Because they are illegal any injury and they can be severe are not covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Hal Smith Posted May 28, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 28, 2006 Tie ins are potentially very dangerous and crew people die because of them. A couple of years ago a crew person died walking by a tie in. The power arced from to box to the c-stand he was carrying and killed him. Witnesses said he didn?t connect with the box it arced. Because they are illegal any injury and they can be severe are not covered. They're not illegal, but they do have to be done as allowed by the National Electrical Code. If there's any sort of a liability issue, hire a journeyman electrician licensed by whatever jurisdiction you're in. I've done tie-ins in Woburn, MA (Boston) where the code is as a tight as anywhere. I hired an electrician there to do the actual work. At the Oklahoma City Civic Music Hall theatres I don't even have to get advance permission anymore for tie-ins, they've seen me work and know I do it safely. I'm talking about real tie-ins, lugs and all, not plugging Camloks into a panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted May 28, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 28, 2006 Hi, I was going to say, haven't you people heard of camloks? Perhaps it's because UK household wiring is more capable than that in the US, but this sort of thing is extremely unusual here - about as close as you'd get would be patching lugs onto three-phase busbars, but it's not supposed to be done live. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Hi, I was going to say, haven't you people heard of camloks? Perhaps it's because UK household wiring is more capable than that in the US, but this sort of thing is extremely unusual here - about as close as you'd get would be patching lugs onto three-phase busbars, but it's not supposed to be done live. Phil I was about to ask this kind of thing! Here in the u.k. it is illegal to open the wiring on the other side of the meter box, and on the fuse box side of the meter, there is always a really big switch like in Frankenstein movies, before the meter, that shuts the electricity off. So it seems there would be no need to wire in to actual live electrics, you would just shut off the big frankenstein switch, wire things up and get Egor to pull the big switch again while you laugh manically as it comes to life! Or have I completely misunderstood here? Perhaps this is because we use 230 volts and it's more dangerous and it rains all the time and people get wet and you have to be careful! *shrug?* love Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Hal Smith Posted May 30, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 30, 2006 I was about to ask this kind of thing! Here in the u.k. it is illegal to open the wiring on the other side of the meter box, and on the fuse box side of the meter, there is always a really big switch like in Frankenstein movies, before the meter, that shuts the electricity off. So it seems there would be no need to wire in to actual live electrics, you would just shut off the big frankenstein switch, wire things up and get Egor to pull the big switch again while you laugh manically as it comes to life! Freya Pretty much the same in the US, there always is some type of master disconnect that is the first thing after the meter or service entrance itself. It is never permissible to lug in ahead of the meter - and just about impossible to figure out how to shut off the electricity at that point anyhow. Residential over here is usually 120/240 AC Volts, two 120 circuits back to back on a common neutral. The ground is by code a separate wire and in recent years there is supposed to be both a ground and a neutral in the panel box - but at the transformer (residential ones are often on a pole out at the street or in a small transformer vault ) where the service is stepped down down from the 7200 or 14400 volt distribution line the ground and neutral are tied together. I ought to take on a new forum name "Sparks"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Pretty much the same in the US, there always is some type of master disconnect that is the first thing after the meter or service entrance itself. It is never permissible to lug in ahead of the meter - and just about impossible to figure out how to shut off the electricity at that point anyhow. Residential over here is usually 120/240 AC Volts, two 120 circuits back to back on a common neutral. The ground is by code a separate wire and in recent years there is supposed to be both a ground and a neutral in the panel box - but at the transformer (residential ones are often on a pole out at the street or in a small transformer vault ) where the service is stepped down down from the 7200 or 14400 volt distribution line the ground and neutral are tied together. I ought to take on a new forum name "Sparks"! Then why are people talking of wiring into live electricity (which makes my skin crawl!), surely you just shut off the big master swich, theres surely no need to tie in before the big switch right? I don't see why you need to mess with live electrics??? love Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Hal Smith Posted May 30, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted May 30, 2006 Then why are people talking of wiring into live electricity (which makes my skin crawl!), surely you just shut off the big master swich, theres surely no need to tie in before the big switch right? I don't see why you need to mess with live electrics??? love Freya I agree - and maybe those people know so little about electrical systems that they think you have to perform a tie-in on a live circuit are best off NOT putting their delicate little fingers in electrics. :D I have performed tie-ins in past years on live circuits but I won't describe how to do it safely on a forum with no-nothing idiots reading professional's posts, I wouldn't want to tempt them to get in WAY over their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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