Freedom of the Press vrs. Al Jazeera

[James Steven Beverly]

And here I was going to let it go because I admired your guts for standing up for your country, Canada, which I consider the "light beer" of the western world. When was the last time Canada was the best at ANYTHING except for hockey and curling. Your beginning to sound envious because there's very little you can point to as excceptional about Canada unless you count Pam Anderson and William Shatner.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Capt.Video

[Jaan Shenberger]

canada is arguably the greatest in the world when it comes to animation.

though, there's no arguement when it comes to me-- it is the best.

[James Steven Beverly]

Rock On, Jaan! Rock On! :D

[Tankerplot]

Neil Young, David Cronenberg, Jack Kerouac, James Cameron, Glenn Gould, Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Margaret Atwood ,Saul Bellow...

 

All Canadian as far as I can remember.

 

BTW I'm English, so therefore I hate the rest of the world, and despise myself and my nation, which makes things much easier.

[Jonathan Spear]

My in-laws have been in Haifa for the last two weeks on a religious pilgrimage. Mother-in-law is Canadian, Father-in-law is British, both are Bahai which is yet another religion that claims that region as their holyland. They literally left the day after the fighting started....decided to go anyway, I thought they were crazy, but they did it.

 

I'm amazed how impassioned this thread has become, by far the most popular on the board lately. Just another reminder of how extremely polarized the world has become. What happened to the middle ground? Why is it that nobody can seem to see what they have in common instead of where they differ. Why can't the Muslims of the region understand that the Jews were hunted in Europe the first part of last century and that they need a country? Why can't the Israeli's who so has been said have as modern a land as Chicago and New York see the utter poverty of the region around them and sympathize? Where's the shred of decency hiding? We can't even maintain courtesy on a cinematography forum.

 

As a species we are showing ourselves to be spiteful, selfish, short-sighted little animals, and to borrow from another popular thread, perhaps we deserve what we get from global warming. Give a chance to another more compassionate species.

 

I can barely maintain an ounce of optimism anymore. If one of these crazy religions is right and there IS a god, he must be awfully disappointed.

 

You know what? You're right. 100% right. One of the fallout tragedies of terrorism is the impact it has on people my age and younger. Last night I re-read my posts and was shocked at what a racist jerk I've become.

 

I'll admit, I'm afraid, short-sighted, ignorant and pessimistic. It's going to take work to train myself to think the way I used too. And I don't see the poverty and suffering of people around me because I'm probably too self-centered and paranoid about my own safety and well being.

 

What I've learned from all of this is that every human life is priceless, fragile, and that peace can only be achieved once we unite ourselves, embrace our differences, respect each other, give each other a chance, and open a new page in history.

 

I'll do my part by not becoming a racist, keeping an open mind and refrain from spewing brutal hatred over the internet while hiding behind a computer screen in the comfort of my home.

 

Peace, love and good hapiness stuff.

 

-Jonathan

 

P.S. -- I apologize to anyone that was offended by my stupid posts. Peace.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Yeah, but you don't want to go too far the other way. If we become to anti-judgmental, this sort of thing happens unchecked. Let's not pretend that currently Islam doesn't deserve a rather poor reputation for creating extremist fanatics - and let's understand that in the context of Christianity having done similar things in the middle ages, which is of course part of the problem. Racial prejudice is obviously inappropriate; it really comes out of characterising people of a certain race as being likely to have come from a certain background that's turned them into a certain type of person, which of course applies to a ultra-rightist Southern Baptist as much as it does an Iranian, but it's more appropriate to consider someone negatively based on their tendency to execute sixteen year olds than it is on the basis that they're Iranian. Or tendency to scream "God hates fags", rather than the fact that they're from the deep south.

 

My friend Anjali is currently the butt of at least twice the usual amount of racial aggravation, despite the fact that by heredity she'd be Hindu not Islamic and is actually slightly more rabidly secular than I am.

 

Phil

 

PS - Pessimism is appropriate. So's a certain healthy degree of fear, in the context of "regard for the danger presented by being shelled."

[Gareth Munden]

I agree with Phil 100%, have a look at the link Phil has on his post. It has come about that Islam cannot be criticized well in Britain anyway.

 

A film crew has been moved out of the Brick Lane area in the east end of London, shooting "Brick Lane". Because a part of the story is about Islamic men bringing young girls into Britain for wives and treating them like s**t . The police have advised the crew to move for their own safety as a treats have been by Muslim group against the production.

Hang on don't we have freedom of speech in Britain ? We did when 85000 Christians protested against the BBC for showing "Jerry Springer the Opera"

But then the BBC showed it anyway !!! , funny that !! But then they were to afraid to show the cartoons of the Prophet.

So if we are talking about freedom of speech and Al Jazeera then we need to look how Islam has tried to destroy it in Britain, with the help of the BBC and left wing local councils .

 

 

PS "Brick Lane" was written by a young British Muslim woman.

[N DeWood]

The reality of this ongoing conflict is the brutal military occupation of a population for decades in Palestine.

 

If you want to get into the business of brutally occupying people, there will be a conflict. Remember, there was no Hizbollah before the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, and there was no PLO before the occupation of Palestine, and there was no Al Qaida and Bin Ladin before the Soviet Occupation and massive counter support of the U.S. government.

 

Ask the Brits back in Iraq, India, and Africa and the French in Algeria about brual occupations. They all learned their lessons, that's why they don't do it anymore.

 

I am still amazed how many here still blame religion for everything, and especially Islam. I've studied every major religion in my early years in Catholic Schools to the old testament and the Koran in College and during my travels. None of these religions prescribe hate and rasicsm. Fanatics are not religious people, even if they claim to be so. They are fascists and rascists, who take cover under the blankets of religion.

 

Because WWI and WWII were started by "Christian Nations" should we then call Christianity a violent and genocidal religion? Everyone referred to the 1940s Germany as Nazi Germany. It would be unacceptable to refer to it as Nazi Lutheran Germany. Yet, when it comes to Arabs, the West just loves to blast their religion as violent, and use dumb terms like Islamic Terrorists, and Jihadis, and Jihadists.

 

Just take a look at the brutality of Europe for the last 1000 years for some truly needed perspective.

 

The Brits colonalized most of the earth, and brutally ruled hundreds of millions of people. No one ever called it the Christian Empire. They call it the British Empire. Why? Because Christianity has nothing to do with oppression and racism.

 

Same with the Russians. They called it the Soviet Empire when it dominated so many other countries, not the Christian Orthodox empire (since many Russians are of that denomination).

 

It is a religion of love and peace. Read Jesus' and Moses' real teachings, you will be wondering where today's problems come from.

 

Focus on the brutal and unjust occupation that is going on as we speak in Palestine. Terrorism is only a symptom of this cancer that no one wants to treat or consider. They do so because everyone is afraid of being accused of being an "anti-semite," which is simply not the case. Bad people exist in every religion, period. And this is not to excuse the violent behavioral response of occupied people against civilians in restaurants, buses and parks.

 

I hear many here talking so offensively about Islam as a violent and a women hating religion. For god's sake, quit this ignorant and racist attitude about Islam and Arabs. Bush and Blair could only hope to find more people with this attitude to continue this clash of civilization nonesense.

 

Peace to all.

 

Nick Woods

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> should we then call Christianity a violent and genocidal religion?

 

I'd rather call religion violent and genocidal in general, but it has been both of those things.

 

> None of these religions prescribe hate and rasicsm

 

Of course not. However, what they do preach is "believe this fact, without any rational reason to do so." This is an extremely dangerous mindset to get people into. Making people believe things just because you said so makes them putty in your hands. The problem with Islam is not the Koran; the problem with Islam is fanatical mullahs who are gigantically abusing the public trust in the religion. If we did not allow parents to bring their children up into religion, this would stop, because while we still might not have a world full of clear and rational thinkers, we might at least avoid producing societies who have a deep-set belief that, for example, cutting off part of your son's penis is OK, or that questioning the writ of a given book is not allowed.

 

It should never, ever be disallowed to question something - ever. This is critical. Religion produces unquestioning people. It overrides common sense and everyday morality. And it shouldn't be necessary - if you needed a book, a book of dubious provenance, I should add, to tell you that murder is wrong, I don't wish to know you. Naturally this doesn't go for the vast majority of religious people - but that's the argument that's frequently used.

 

> Because Christianity has nothing to do with oppression and racism.

 

Christianity is oppressing blacks and homosexuals in a lot of the US right now.

 

> I hear many here talking so offensively about Islam as a violent

> and a women hating religion. For god's sake, quit this ignorant

> and racist attitude about Islam and Arabs.

 

Criticising a religion is not racist. It may appear to be so, as many religions are highly regional, as are the identifiably differing strains of human being we have on this planet. This is a constant mistake.

 

That said, I will happily talk offensively about most religions. The amount of grief they have caused me, and continue to cause me, is out of all proportion to what some people seem to get out of them.

 

Phil

[Guest]

"When was the last time Canada was the best at ANYTHING except for hockey and curling. Your beginning to sound envious because there's very little you can point to as excceptional about Canada unless you count Pam Anderson and William Shatner."

 

You are obviously unaware that Canada is home to the world's largest mosquito. We also invented the plastic garbage bag, five pin bowling, the goalie mask, & pablum.

 

And a few small things like insulin, IMAX, standard time, the airplane, car, phone, radio, TV, and freedom.

 

R,

 

Pam Anderson is Canadian? Geez didn't know that!

[Guest Paul Wizikowski]

Nick, no doubt there are people that lump all the people of Islam into one big terror cell and it isn't right. Unfortunatly the case with those who are in the terror cells, the "extremists" are labeling themselves. They call themselves Jihadists. Their battle cry is for a Jihad (a holy war). To them this is about a religious fight. Sure theres a hundered other factors involved but their rallying cry is "Kill as many Zionists as possible", "Make Islam reign from here to Spain" (the latter refers to a comment claimed yesterday by one of their leaders)

 

To them its their version of the Crusades.

 

Christianity is oppressing blacks and homosexuals in a lot of the US right now.

 

 

Yes, its the guns fault for killing someone, not the person who fired it.

 

Just as its the extremist Islams that are the problem who, as far as I know, do not represent the true nature of Islam so the extremist Christians that are shouting God Hates Fags are wrong, and do not represent the true nature of Christianity.

 

I may not be able to say anything that helps you see my point. You may not even care, but its the truth.

[Robert Hughes]

When was the last time Canada was the best at ANYTHING except for hockey and curling.

Well, the USA is best at soccer, except that - we lost. Oh, yeah, we're best at bicycling, except that - the champ doped himself up. OK, we still make the best land mines, so there!

[N DeWood]

Hello Paul,

 

There is no such Arabic word as "Jihadists." Jihad does not mean "Holy War." I speak the language fluently. Jihad is a nice word for "inner struggle," period. NO exception. It has no English equivalent. The name Jihad is very popular in the Middle East for both boys and girls. Also, although "holy war" is a common term in the West, it does not translate well to Arabic, and therefore it is not used.

 

The terms as known in the West came from CNN and Fox News, and from the neocons at the AEI (American Enterprise Institute), the Brookings Institute to name a few who spew these invented terms, and pump up their worth. It is downright astonishing.

 

If you are wondering why these terms were invented, it is to make everyone associate good Arabic words with terrorism. Have you noticed how the words "Islamic Terroism" and "Islamic Fascists" seem normal in today's news. Now, when someone hears the word Muslim or Islam, the mind immediately associates terrorism. It works like magic.

 

Bush used this deceptive association to bring about a war by mentioning the words "Saddam" and "9/11" in the same sentence. Today 60% of the people believe that there was link!

 

It's a very powerful and deceptive method that works everytime. Use terms like "death tax" to eliminate the estate tax for the rich. I can go on and on with this deceitful practice.

 

None of this is to excuse what some fascists called Al Qaida did. But remember, they are called Al Qaida, not Islamic Fascists or Jihadists. Just like the Red Brigade in Italy and the IRA in Ireland. They are referred to by their title, and name. I have never heard of anyone referring to the Red Brigades as Catholic Terrorists or Italian Terrorists. Imagine the outcry if that happens.

 

Nick Woods.

 

Nick, no doubt there are people that lump all the people of Islam into one big terror cell and it isn't right. Unfortunatly the case with those who are in the terror cells, the "extremists" are labeling themselves. They call themselves Jihadists. Their battle cry is for a Jihad (a holy war). To them this is about a religious fight. Sure theres a hundered other factors involved but their rallying cry is "Kill as many Zionists as possible", "Make Islam reign from here to Spain" (the latter refers to a comment claimed yesterday by one of their leaders)

 

To them its their version of the Crusades.

Yes, its the guns fault for killing someone, not the person who fired it.

 

Just as its the extremist Islams that are the problem who, as far as I know, do not represent the true nature of Islam so the extremist Christians that are shouting God Hates Fags are wrong, and do not represent the true nature of Christianity.

 

I may not be able to say anything that helps you see my point. You may not even care, but its the truth.

[Guest]

Hey I'm totally confused...can Paul and Nick clarify who's on what side?

 

I got lost back on page 7 or 8.

 

Thanks,

R,

[Gareth Munden]

Nick Woods

 

Oh yeah you got it !!! All the worlds problems are down to Israel . Maybe we should bomb Israel !!!!

 

Oh also while I'm here Nicky the IRA are from Britain as Northern Ireland is in Great Britain . But a map that has more then Iran on it.

[James Steven Beverly]

Neil Young, David Cronenberg, Jack Kerouac, James Cameron, Glenn Gould, Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Margaret Atwood ,Saul Bellow...

 

All Canadian as far as I can remember.

 

BTW I'm English, so therefore I hate the rest of the world, and despise myself and my nation, which makes things much easier.

 

That' a good one :lol: I about fell out of my chair when I read that.

 

I hear many here talking so offensively about Islam as a violent and a women hating religion.

 

Nick Woods

 

Gee, I don't know where they got that idea.... Maybe it's the bombs and the burka's.

[James Steven Beverly]

"When was the last time Canada was the best at ANYTHING except for hockey and curling. Your beginning to sound envious because there's very little you can point to as excceptional about Canada unless you count Pam Anderson and William Shatner."

 

You are obviously unaware that Canada is home to the world's largest mosquito. We also invented the plastic garbage bag, five pin bowling, the goalie mask, & pablum.

 

And a few small things like insulin, IMAX, standard time, the airplane, car, phone, radio, TV, and freedom.

 

R,

 

Pam Anderson is Canadian? Geez didn't know that!

 

The airplaine, maybe you HEARD of Orville and Wilber Wright, TV, maybe you heard of Philo Farnsworth, Freedom, MAYBE you caught a little thing called the American Revolution in history class unless you were asleep or even barring that the Magna Carta or even go back to the Roman Republic. I don't know about IMAX but It wouldn't exist with out a little invention from good ol' Tom Edison call Motion Pictures.Radio was invented by Marconi, Telephone was invented by Alexander Graham Bell, I'll give ya Insulin, plastic garbage bag, five pin bowling, the goalie mask, & pablum, but if I'm not mistaken regulated time zones were instituted my American railroad companies to help insure passanger safety during the 1800's. If you are going to argue a point at least argue it with facts not fantasy.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Capt.Video

[Tom Bays]

How about that Al Jazeera :D

[James Steven Beverly]

Hello Paul,

 

There is no such Arabic word as "Jihadists." Jihad does not mean "Holy War." I speak the language fluently.

Nick Woods.

 

And Gay didn't mean homosexual but it does now, Jihadists will work. Facwa (although I'm probably misspelling it) Is an Arabic work for revenge war so use that one if you would feel more comfotable. I personally like the phrase "Murdering the innocent" to describe what this scum millitant, religious fanatics do. But a rose by any other name.... <_<

[Guest Paul Wizikowski]

Hello Paul,

 

There is no such Arabic word as "Jihadists." Jihad does not mean "Holy War." I speak the language fluently. Jihad is a nice word for "inner struggle," period. NO exception. It has no English equivalent. The name Jihad is very popular in the Middle East for both boys and girls. Also, although "holy war" is a common term in the West, it does not translate well to Arabic, and therefore it is not used.

 

The terms as known in the West came from CNN and Fox News, and from the neocons at the AEI (American Enterprise Institute), the Brookings Institute to name a few who spew these invented terms, and pump up their worth. It is downright astonishing.

 

If you are wondering why these terms were invented, it is to make everyone associate good Arabic words with terrorism. Have you noticed how the words "Islamic Terroism" and "Islamic Fascists" seem normal in today's news. Now, when someone hears the word Muslim or Islam, the mind immediately associates terrorism. It works like magic.

 

Bush used this deceptive association to bring about a war by mentioning the words "Saddam" and "9/11" in the same sentence. Today 60% of the people believe that there was link!

 

It's a very powerful and deceptive method that works everytime. Use terms like "death tax" to eliminate the estate tax for the rich. I can go on and on with this deceitful practice.

 

None of this is to excuse what some fascists called Al Qaida did. But remember, they are called Al Qaida, not Islamic Fascists or Jihadists. Just like the Red Brigade in Italy and the IRA in Ireland. They are referred to by their title, and name. I have never heard of anyone referring to the Red Brigades as Catholic Terrorists or Italian Terrorists. Imagine the outcry if that happens.

 

Nick Woods.

 

 

Well Pointed. It is worth mentioning the use of emotional charged buzz words to elicit support by the media, by the administration, hell by sales and marketing in general. You do have to look through that to make an educated decision. In that I agree with you. But heres just my thoughts, sure the media and this administration are using charged words to define this group (Al-Qaida) and their goals but I don't think they are making up the goals of Al-Qaida. Al-Qaida has repeatedly called for the destruction of Isreal, the death of as many Zionists as possible and so on. Do you feel that they are acting more out of retaliation against acts against Islam or is it because they have interpreted their Koran to say that they should attack and kill purely for the advancement of their religion OR would you say its something else entirely. I try not to be subjective but as I understand it their tapes make it clear what their intents are. When they say no-cease fire or prior agreements will deter them from reclaiming the land of Isreal, I believe them. Do you understand them to be saying something else?

[James Steven Beverly]

The reality of this ongoing conflict is the brutal military occupation of a population for decades in Palestine.

 

If you want to get into the business of brutally occupying people, there will be a conflict. Remember, there was no Hizbollah before the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, and there was no PLO before the occupation of Palestine, and there was no Al Qaida and Bin Ladin before the Soviet Occupation and massive counter support of the U.S. government.

 

Ask the Brits back in Iraq, India, and Africa and the French in Algeria about brual occupations. They all learned their lessons, that's why they don't do it anymore.

 

I am still amazed how many here still blame religion for everything, and especially Islam. I've studied every major religion in my early years in Catholic Schools to the old testament and the Koran in College and during my travels. None of these religions prescribe hate and rasicsm. Fanatics are not religious people, even if they claim to be so. They are fascists and rascists, who take cover under the blankets of religion.

 

Because WWI and WWII were started by "Christian Nations" should we then call Christianity a violent and genocidal religion? Everyone referred to the 1940s Germany as Nazi Germany. It would be unacceptable to refer to it as Nazi Lutheran Germany. Yet, when it comes to Arabs, the West just loves to blast their religion as violent, and use dumb terms like Islamic Terrorists, and Jihadis, and Jihadists.

 

Just take a look at the brutality of Europe for the last 1000 years for some truly needed perspective.

 

The Brits colonalized most of the earth, and brutally ruled hundreds of millions of people. No one ever called it the Christian Empire. They call it the British Empire. Why? Because Christianity has nothing to do with oppression and racism.

 

Same with the Russians. They called it the Soviet Empire when it dominated so many other countries, not the Christian Orthodox empire (since many Russians are of that denomination).

 

It is a religion of love and peace. Read Jesus' and Moses' real teachings, you will be wondering where today's problems come from.

 

Focus on the brutal and unjust occupation that is going on as we speak in Palestine. Terrorism is only a symptom of this cancer that no one wants to treat or consider. They do so because everyone is afraid of being accused of being an "anti-semite," which is simply not the case. Bad people exist in every religion, period. And this is not to excuse the violent behavioral response of occupied people against civilians in restaurants, buses and parks.

 

I hear many here talking so offensively about Islam as a violent and a women hating religion. For god's sake, quit this ignorant and racist attitude about Islam and Arabs. Bush and Blair could only hope to find more people with this attitude to continue this clash of civilization nonesense.

 

Peace to all.

 

Nick Woods

 

Both Nazi Germany and Sovit Russia tried to stamp out religion. Both Hitler and Stalin felt THEY were the only "gods" their people needed. Religious psychos in Persia twist Islam into a insrument of hate so YES religion is to blame or rather the BLIND obedence to religious leaders without the smallest shred of desencey in thier black hearted souls. Any instution that compromises personal integity over the obedience to a cause is dangerous, THAT"S how Nazi Germany was born not because of religious beliefs but because of abandoned morality which is SUPOSE to be the halmank of religion. Ironic, isn't it?

Edited July 28, 2006 by Capt.Video

[Tom Bays]

Barney it Ain't

[Guest]

The airplaine, maybe you HEARD of Orville and Wilber Wright, TV, maybe you heard of Philo Farnsworth, Freedom, MAYBE you caught a little thing called the American Revolution in history class unless you were asleep or even barring that the Magna Carta or even go back to the Roman Republic. I don't know about IMAX but It wouldn't exist with out a little invention from good ol' Tom Edison call Motion Pictures.Radio was invented by Marconi, Telephone was invented by Alexander Graham Bell, I'll give ya Insulin, plastic garbage bag, five pin bowling, the goalie mask, & pablum, but if I'm not mistaken regulated time zones were instituted my American railroad companies to help insure passanger safety during the 1800's. If you are going to argue a point at least argue it with facts not fantasy.

 

No sorry you are quite incorrect, we did invent the airplane and every thing else I mentioned. Orville and Wilbur Wright where hack jobs who stole the whole plane idea from Canadian inventors Mulroney and Clark.

 

The radio was invented by Canadian Jean Chretien, the TV was invented by Canadian Don Cherry.

 

And it was Canada that gave the world freedom as well, since we are the oldest and most successful democracy in the world. How you can argue that America gave the world freedom is beyond me. FYI, the guy who got the most votes in the 2000 US election did NOT become the president. This is your idea of freedom?

 

Standard time was invented by Canadian Sir Sanford Fleming, have a look it says right here on the Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanford_Fleming

 

Do you still think it was was the American railroads? Now who is arguing with fantasy?

 

A few other important Canadian inventions are: air, water, earth, and fire. Where would the world be without Canada? God bless Canada.

 

R,

[Guest Paul Wizikowski]

Hey I'm totally confused...can Paul and Nick clarify who's on what side?

 

I got lost back on page 7 or 8.

 

Thanks,

R,

 

 

I can only tell you where I stand. I have felt that Isreal is justified in defending themselves. These terrorists have access to territories belonging to other governments that won't/can't deal with them. Isreal's goal I think is right. I don't think their every action has been as black and white. I think their biggest shortcoming was not reaching out to Lebenon to remove Hezbollah together. Their admitted "punishing" of Lebenon for not dealing with Hezbollah is a poor couse of action, one that could be argued has gone too far.

 

I'm not so cynical to think the President and this government have some secret ambition to take over the Islam world or to kill for the sake of killing or just to acquire more oil, as is often speculated. He is a simple speaker. When he says he is after spreading freedom or that the goals of establishing a working government in Afghanistan and Iraq will take a long time, I think he believes it. And it will.

 

I admit I don't have the answers but I have openly asked for other peoples thoughts from anyone who would take the question seriously.

 

As for the real point of this thread I think Al-Jazeera should be allowed its own "freedom of the press" rights if run by American citizens. My biggest qualm with that organization is that I don't think they operate in an ethical or objective manner, certainly not one that news agencies in the West demand of each other. Where the line is between a news agency and a propoganda machine lies, someone more informed than I will have to say.

[James Steven Beverly]

No sorry you are quite incorrect, we did invent the airplane and every thing else I mentioned. Orville and Wilbur Wright where hack jobs who stole the whole plane idea from Canadian inventors Mulroney and Clark.

 

The radio was invented by Canadian Jean Chretien, the TV was invented by Canadian Don Cherry.

 

And it was Canada that gave the world freedom as well, since we are the oldest and most successful democracy in the world. How you can argue that America gave the world freedom is beyond me. FYI, the guy who got the most votes in the 2000 US election did NOT become the president. This is your idea of freedom?

 

Standard time was invented by Canadian Sir Sanford Fleming, have a look it says right here on the Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanford_Fleming

 

Do you still think it was was the American railroads? Now who is arguing with fantasy?

 

A few other important Canadian inventions are: air, water, earth, and fire. Where would the world be without Canada? God bless Canada.

 

R,

 

I couldn't agree with you more on the 2000 election, but the electorial college was meant to give less populated areas of the US an equal say in American politics, which just goes to show you sometimes even a good idea comes back to bite ya in the ass. I loved your roster of "Inventors", very creative, as for your last statment, I don't know about air and water but Earth, Wind and Fire are definately American and without Canada, the world would also be a much poorer place. Definately, may God bless Canada. B)