strange super-8 issue

Geoff Haas · September 8, 2006

This is a very strange situation and just wanted to post it here to see if anyone has a take on what is going on.

I recently shot a roll of Plus-X B/W Kodak reversal super-8 film (is there negative of this stock?), with my Nizo Super-8. I had the film processed by a place here in MN which I've used many times in the past with no issues before. When I picked up the film today and put it through the viewer the IMAGE IS NEGATIVE! It's a negative image, but this is even stranger-for about 3 seconds in the last 30 seconds of the reel it switches to proper reveral and then goes back to being negative! It's so weird. I called the lab/processor and they had no clue what could be up with this.

It has to be a Kodak problem right? Age would not effect film in this way. It can't be more than a year or two old. Also it could not be a camera issue obviously. I can't even imagine it would be a processing issue if they use a reversal process. The weird part is the brief part of the roll which is normal.

Do I call Kodak and complain? Any thoughts?

Alessandro Machi · September 8, 2006

This is a very strange situation and just wanted to post it here to see if anyone has a take on what is going on.

I recently shot a roll of Plus-X B/W Kodak reversal super-8 film (is there negative of this stock?), with my Nizo Super-8. I had the film processed by a place here in MN which I've used many times in the past with no issues before. When I picked up the film today and put it through the viewer the IMAGE IS NEGATIVE! It's a negative image, but this is even stranger-for about 3 seconds in the last 30 seconds of the reel it switches to proper reveral and then goes back to being negative! It's so weird. I called the lab/processor and they had no clue what could be up with this.

It has to be a Kodak problem right? Age would not effect film in this way. It can't be more than a year or two old. Also it could not be a camera issue obviously. I can't even imagine it would be a processing issue if they use a reversal process. The weird part is the brief part of the roll which is normal.

Do I call Kodak and complain? Any thoughts?

Martians.

Actually, I think reversal can be cross processed and turned into negative. Although double posting a topic is frowned upon this topic should also be in the processing forum as well. It should stay here also so we learn how the lab made the error, um, I assuming it's a lab error.

But just to be safe, put another black and white film into your viewer to make sure that one doesn't look like negative as well, in which I case, I say Martians, late at night, visited your home recently.

This is a very strange situation and just wanted to post it here to see if anyone has a take on what is going on.

I recently shot a roll of Plus-X B/W Kodak reversal super-8 film (is there negative of this stock?), with my Nizo Super-8. I had the film processed by a place here in MN which I've used many times in the past with no issues before. When I picked up the film today and put it through the viewer the IMAGE IS NEGATIVE! It's a negative image, but this is even stranger-for about 3 seconds in the last 30 seconds of the reel it switches to proper reveral and then goes back to being negative! It's so weird. I called the lab/processor and they had no clue what could be up with this.

It has to be a Kodak problem right? Age would not effect film in this way. It can't be more than a year or two old. Also it could not be a camera issue obviously. I can't even imagine it would be a processing issue if they use a reversal process. The weird part is the brief part of the roll which is normal.

Do I call Kodak and complain? Any thoughts?

Martians.

Actually, I think reversal can be cross processed and turned into negative. Although double posting a topic is frowned upon this topic should also be in the processing forum as well. It should stay here also so we learn how the lab made the error, um, I assuming it's a lab error.

But just to be safe, put another black and white film into your viewer to make sure that one doesn't look like negative as well, in which I case, I say Martians, late at night, visited your home recently.

Geoff Haas · September 8, 2006

The strangest thing is that there is the small segment toward the end of the reel where it switches back to "normal" reversal look briefly. I wonder if it's a lab thing?

Clive Tobin · September 8, 2006

The strangest thing is that there is the small segment toward the end of the reel where it switches back to "normal" reversal look briefly. I wonder if it's a lab thing?

This would have to be a lab thing. The film was no doubt run through the normal B&W reversal process as Kodak does not make Plus-X Negative in super-8. And the Negative does not process reversal worth a darn, coming out very dense and flat.

For part of the film to come out as negative, these portions would have had to not be bleached and not be redeveloped. That would imply draining these tanks, or lifting up the film roller rack assemblies out of the tanks, while your film was going through. I suspect they had a film break on an adjoining roll in the continuous (cine) processing machine which ruined yours.

Matthew Buick · September 9, 2006

Reversal that turns into Negative ?!? :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

I WANT SOME !!!

Matthew Buick · September 9, 2006

Someone, please give me some magic Reversal.

David Leugers · September 9, 2006

Pretty much all B+W reversal film can be developed as a negative and vice-versa. I've had lots of

16mm Plus-X negative film processed as reversal with good results. No problem having your

reversal film developed as a negative. Do a search at Kodak's website for info.

Geoff Haas · September 9, 2006

Thanks for the input. Glad so many have posted. When I called the lab the person who I spoke to (not the lab tech) said "that sounds cool". Not cool if you just want your footage normal.

Leo Anthony Vale · September 9, 2006

Thanks for the input. Glad so many have posted. When I called the lab the person who I spoke to (not the lab tech) said "that sounds cool". Not cool if you just want your footage normal.

Did he say they'll have to charge you extra for the effect?

Edited September 9, 2006 by Leo Anthony Vale

Nate Downes · September 9, 2006

Thanks for the input. Glad so many have posted. When I called the lab the person who I spoke to (not the lab tech) said "that sounds cool". Not cool if you just want your footage normal.

That can happen when you do not get proper re-exposure. Means those segments of film were not re-exposed during that step of the process.

Geoff Haas · September 9, 2006

I don't understand what this last post means exactly. Sorry to be so dense. I assume you're indicating a processing error? Thanks. Sorry if this post has gone on too long, but glad to have these opinions when I speak to the lab on Monday (refund anyone?)

Nate Downes · September 9, 2006

I don't understand what this last post means exactly. Sorry to be so dense. I assume you're indicating a processing error? Thanks. Sorry if this post has gone on too long, but glad to have these opinions when I speak to the lab on Monday (refund anyone?)

Yes, it's a processing error.

You see,to make a B&W positive, one of the steps is to re-exposure of the film to light. If this stage is not done, the film will process as a negative.

Alessandro Machi · September 10, 2006

Yes, it's a processing error.

You see,to make a B&W positive, one of the steps is to re-exposure of the film to light. If this stage is not done, the film will process as a negative.

Let's preanticipate what the lab might say or do. If (and this is a significant if) the processed film was never intended for projection, meaning it was going to be transferred to video and edited via NLE, has the lab actually done anything wrong that deserves financial compensation? Perhaps what the lab did significantly altered the characteristics of the film, the way it actually looks, I don't know, anyone know?

Clive Tobin · September 10, 2006

You see,to make a B&W positive, one of the steps is to re-exposure of the film to light. If this stage is not done, the film will process as a negative.

This is not correct. If the film is not re-exposed before redevelopment, it will come out completely clear. The negative image is bleached out before re-exposure, so it is completely gone by then.

Geoff Haas · September 10, 2006

This is somewhat of a Mom N' Pop place, but a lab that everyone in town uses for Super-8 and some 16mm reversal pocessing. I can't imagine the assumption that reversal S-8 would go to Telecine, there is not even a Super-8 gate in town. So I would say it's a given that is to be processed for projection. Anyway luckily this footage was not from a crucial project, just home movies in this situation. I have used this place twice for actual projects with budgets/crews and blown processing on those would have been a disaster. Mostly want them to know IF they screwed it up to prevent it in the future. Good opinions - thanks.

Alessandro Machi · September 10, 2006

This is somewhat of a Mom N' Pop place, but a lab that everyone in town uses for Super-8 and some 16mm reversal pocessing. I can't imagine the assumption that reversal S-8 would go to Telecine, there is not even a Super-8 gate in town. So I would say it's a given that is to be processed for projection. Anyway luckily this footage was not from a crucial project, just home movies in this situation. I have used this place twice for actual projects with budgets/crews and blown processing on those would have been a disaster. Mostly want them to know IF they screwed it up to prevent it in the future. Good opinions - thanks.

My use of the word "assuming" was meant to imply, "if". If we assume the film was not meant for projection because it was going to be edited NLE, then there's no need to pressure them for a refund but more or less to make sure they don't make that mistake again. They should still then offer free processing even if you don't ask for it and if you intended this film for projection they should transfer it for you to video at no charge. (you'll probably have to supply the video stock but you'll still have most of the tape left over after they do the transfer).