Formal Apology

[Brian Rose]

I would like to formally apologize for my role in any suggestion that the break in was a "hoax." I admit to being a skeptic with regards to RED, but my comments were based on my own bias, and were poorly informed. I admit to being ignorant to the situation surrounding RED in recent weeks, and my comments were very much out of line. I very much love this forum, and respect the members who have helped me on numerous occasions. I did a diservice to them, and to the board with my slander. I hope you all will be willing to accept my apology, and I wish the best of luck to the persons who have invested so much time and capital into RED, and my fondest wishes that they are able to overcome this hardship, and bring their dreams to fruition.

Sincerely,

Brian Rose

[Matthew W. Phillips]

I would like to formally apologize for my role in any suggestion that the break in was a "hoax." I admit to being a skeptic with regards to RED, but my comments were based on my own bias, and were poorly informed. I admit to being ignorant to the situation surrounding RED in recent weeks, and my comments were very much out of line. I very much love this forum, and respect the members who have helped me on numerous occasions. I did a diservice to them, and to the board with my slander. I hope you all will be willing to accept my apology, and I wish the best of luck to the persons who have invested so much time and capital into RED, and my fondest wishes that they are able to overcome this hardship, and bring their dreams to fruition.

Sincerely,

Brian Rose

 

Well, all I have to say about it is that I will apoligize for doing the same thing when I hear the RED-heads apoligize for blaming well respected companies like Canon, Sony, DALSA, Panavision, and etc. of industrial espionage. That was just as bad, if not worse, than implying that the break in was a hoax.

[jan von krogh]

I would like to formally apologize for my role in any suggestion that the break in was a "hoax." I admit to being a skeptic with regards to RED, but my comments were based on my own bias, and were poorly informed. I admit to being ignorant to the situation surrounding RED in recent weeks, and my comments were very much out of line. I very much love this forum, and respect the members who have helped me on numerous occasions. I did a diservice to them, and to the board with my slander. I hope you all will be willing to accept my apology, and I wish the best of luck to the persons who have invested so much time and capital into RED, and my fondest wishes that they are able to overcome this hardship, and bring their dreams to fruition.

Sincerely,

Brian Rose

100% accepted.

[Greg Lowry]

Well, all I have to say about it is that I will apoligize for doing the same thing when I hear the RED-heads apoligize for blaming well respected companies like Canon, Sony, DALSA, Panavision, and etc. of industrial espionage. That was just as bad, if not worse, than implying that the break in was a hoax.

 

It's a pity that you don't seem to grasp that someone else's inappropriate accusation doesn't mitigate your own.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

It's a pity that you don't seem to grasp that someone else's inappropriate accusation doesn't mitigate your own.

Isnt it though?

[Jay A. Kelley]

Guys leave poor Matthew alone.. He can't help the way he is.. You must treat people like this with love and understanding until medical science can come up with a cure.

 

Jay

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Guys leave poor Matthew alone.. He can't help the way he is.. You must treat people like this with love and understanding until medical science can come up with a cure.

 

Jay

 

You know Jay, I seriously have no idea what I ever said or did to you personally to cause you to personally insult me. Are you that caught up with a camera and company that you must resort to name calling to prove a point? I stated in another thread that I would respect Tim Tyler and quit talking about the RED camera and all things connected.

 

What I didnt promise is to stop confronting losers who can't seperate the issue of a camera from personal attacks. Ad hominem, have you ever heard of it Jay? It means that you are attacking the person instead of the issue and it's a logical fallacy and shows that you have a very weak argument. I do not recall personally attacking you in any regards, so what is your problem? If you are going to go through life insulting everyone who disagrees with you, you are in for quite a battle. This forum is a great avenue to thrash things out, but evidence, or at least theories that aren't personal, should be this basis for discussion...not trash talking because someone dare disagree with your opinion.

 

To re-iterate, I HAVE QUIT DISCUSSING THE RED OUT OF RESPECT TO TIM TYLER'S SITE! IF YOU CONTINUE TO BASH ME AT A PERSONAL LEVEL DESPITE MY EFFORTS TO LEAVE THIS ISSUE ALONE, I WILL REPORT YOU TO TIM BECAUSE THIS SITE ISNT ABOUT AD HOMINEM...IT'S ABOUT FILMMAKING, CAMERAS, GEAR, ETC.

[Tim Tyler]

He can't help the way

 

Jay - You've been a member here just a few days and you're already insulting people?

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I detect the hand of someone's lawyers in all of this.

 

Phil

[John Allardice]

Hi,

 

I detect the hand of someone's lawyers in all of this.

 

Phil

 

 

Not helpful, Phil.

 

 

J

[Christopher Dillon]

That really is an impressive apology, the offended couldn't have written it better, but could The Apologist or someone else please show me the the slanderous comments in question? I can't seem to find them.

[Brian Rose]

That really is an impressive apology, the offended couldn't have written it better, but could The Apologist or someone else please show me the the slanderous comments in question? I can't seem to find them.

 

Here was my post, which I think caused some of the problems, and for which I apologized and retracted:

 

"As much as I want this RED thing to pan out, it seems funny. I haven't heard any buzz about this item, and all of sudden this announcement of a break in? The first thought that popped in my mind is that someone couldn't deliver, and a "break in" sure is a convenient excuse to delay a concept indefinitely. And what's with a 50K, then a 100K reward? Odd for a company looking for investors and funds to offer such a huge amount. Of course, it would be easy to offer such an amount, if one knows that no one is going to provide such evidence. Because there is no evidence. Just my opinion."

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

That's no more objectionable than much other stuff I've seen.

 

I'm rather glad anyone offended by that doesn't have any of my money.

 

Phil

[Patrick McGowan]

Why so much hate over this? You wrote something in an online forum! Who cares? It's not like you guys work for RED or Jim Jannard (although I am sure a few people on this forum do) so why are you accepting some apology? Has this forum turned into DVXuser.com? We aren't here to be arrogant geeky jerks are we?

Edited September 29, 2006 by Patrick S. McGowan

[Brian Rose]

Why so much hate over this? You wrote something in an online forum! Who cares? It's not like you guys work for RED or Jim Jannard (although I am sure a few people on this forum do) so why are you accepting some apology? Has this forum turned into DVXuser.com? We aren't here to be arrogant geeky jerks are we?

 

I just felt I had to apologize because in hindsight, I felt my comments were out of line, and ill-informed, and I did not want there to be any hard feelings over the matter.

Brian Rose

[Jay A. Kelley]

You know Jay, I seriously have no idea what I ever said or did to you personally to cause you to personally insult me. Are you that caught up with a camera and company that you must resort to name calling to prove a point? I stated in another thread that I would respect Tim Tyler and quit talking about the RED camera and all things connected.

 

Matthew, you can write better than I.. I respect you for that.. But there was a method to my madness. Dude some times your opinions are just plain heartless. You hide your passive cruelty behind a sort of "professional air". It pisses me off and I decided to share those emotions with you in a very not-so-political manner. You seem to have found that upsetting.. You should have. I was being a real jerk. Something you should understand well.

 

No I don't have anything against you personally other than I think you can be mean at times. So I guess I do have something against you personally after all!! :)

 

Tell you what... I am sorry.. I am sorry for making my attacks personal, but I just got angry cause you kicked some friends of mine while they were down. When you are in a bar and talking smack about a guy that just got attacked, a lot of people around you will argue and debate or some will agree.. I'm the guy that just walks up to you and punches you in the mouth to make my point, which is, if you can't say something nice, or at least respectful during a painful time, then shut the f*ck up.

 

I know it sounds petty. But I think people on the internet have somehow come to believe that because it's typed, it somehow lacks cruelty, or the ability to hurt others. It doesn't. The things you write about people can cause pain, sorrow, anger, or even tears. I am asking you to please, show people respect when you speak about them. If you don't know what that means, just imagine you are in a bar and there's a jerk like me hiding in the shadows listening to see if you say something that is hurtful of someone else.. If you do, he walks over and belts you.. Trust me if you really believe this, your writing will change drastically!

 

As for the RED camera, I have no loyality to the camera at all.. I've never seen the damn thing. But I respect the people, Graeme, Ted, Jarred, and yeah, Jim. They are pushing the envelope, I love it when people do that, in any technology.. Don't you? As for the forum, it's normal and happens any time there is new technology out there.. Most of the guys over there are cool and excited because the RED team goes to great lenghts to make them feel as if they are a part of the process. The members of that forum, and the reservation holders believe THEY are designing the camera right along side the RED team. That's kind of cool

 

So I am sorry, I will try to be a good boy in the future... As long as you do...

Have a wonderful weekend sir

 

Jay

Edited September 30, 2006 by Jay A. Kelley

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Matthew, you can write better than I.. I respect you for that.. But there was a method to my madness.

Thanks for the compliment.

 

Dude some times your opinions are just plain heartless. You hide your passive cruelty behind a sort of "professional air". It pisses me off and I decided to share those emotions with you in a very not-so-political manner. You seem to have found that upsetting.. You should have. I was being a real jerk. Something you should understand well.

Coming off as heartless is not my intention...this is about products, companies, and business practices...not personal digs and me actually having anything against JJ or RED in general. I'm sure JJ is great to hang out with and enjoy a brew alongside.

 

No I don't have anything against you personally other than I think you can be mean at times. So I guess I do have something against you personally after all!! :)

Hey, you are entitled to your opinion...I happen to think you are taking it to another level, not me. But that is just my opinion.

 

Tell you what... I am sorry.. I am sorry for making my attacks personal, but I just got angry cause you kicked some friends of mine while they were down. When you are in a bar and talking smack about a guy that just got attacked, a lot of people around you will argue and debate or some will agree.. I'm the guy that just walks up to you and punches you in the mouth to make my point, which is, if you can't say something nice, or at least respectful during a painful time, then shut the f*ck up.

By your friends, and the context of what you say, you are referring to what I did at DVXuser.com. You know, that is an interesting and complex story between me and them and I would love to share it over PM. Here is the quicky synopsis. DVXuser is not a site that encourages free speech. Its totally groupthink over there and to dissent from Jarred or Barry is to basically give up your membership. I was a member at DVXuser long before I came to this community. I was a senior member there and I still wasnt allowed to have an opinion. Once I switched from shooting DV to shooting film, I was ostricized and actually called an "anachronism" as though I was obsolete for shooting on film. When I came to this site, it was like a breath of fresh air. Tim Tyler, I'm sure has his own opinions about things, as we all do, but I couldnt tell you what those opinions are because he is so objective about how he handles this site and how he allows people their own mind. Compare these two sites for a moment. You are a new member here and you flat out insult me, a Sustaining member, and you are still here. If I, as a senior member over at DVXuser, would look cross eyed at John Hudson or one of the other higher standing members over there, I wouldve been gone long before I was. Im not too sure you will find much support for DVXuser outside of the DVX/HVX/RED supporters. I think most people know better.

 

I know it sounds petty. But I think people on the internet have somehow come to believe that because it's typed, it somehow lacks cruelty, or the ability to hurt others. It doesn't. The things you write about people can cause pain, sorrow, anger, or even tears. I am asking you to please, show people respect when you speak about them. If you don't know what that means, just imagine you are in a bar and there's a jerk like me hiding in the shadows listening to see if you say something that is hurtful of someone else.. If you do, he walks over and belts you.. Trust me if you really believe this, your writing will change drastically!

Once again, I dont intend on being cruel. As far as DVXuser goes, Ive had it with them so why not speak my mind one last time? I really dont regret saying what I said to Jarred or any of them.

 

As for the RED camera, I have no loyality to the camera at all.. I've never seen the damn thing. But I respect the people, Graeme, Ted, Jarred, and yeah, Jim. They are pushing the envelope, I love it when people do that, in any technology.. Don't you? As for the forum, it's normal and happens any time there is new technology out there.. Most of the guys over there are cool and excited because the RED team goes to great lenghts to make them feel as if they are a part of the process. The members of that forum, and the reservation holders believe THEY are designing the camera right along side the RED team. That's kind of cool

I didnt realize Jarred was part of the design team?

 

So I am sorry, I will try to be a good boy in the future... As long as you do...

Have a wonderful weekend sir

 

Jay

I'm me and I will continue to be me. I don't do it to be malicious.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Hey Matthew,

 

Well the truth is that I am a newbie when it comes to forums. I was unaware of the "rep" DVXuser may have in other circles since I do not post on other boards enough to know. In truth I am just getting into the forum stuff.

 

I am happy to hear you did not intend to hurt anyone, perhaps because I am not aware of the past relationships I do not understand things in the corret context.

 

It would be like me walking in right in the middle of "The Empire Strikes Back" when Vader says "No, I am your father".. Not knowing any history I'd be "Cool.. So what's the problem? Why's that kid on the pole so pissed". But if Vader said "I killed your father" then I'd be like... "Dick!" (No I don't really talk or write this way, just playing).

 

I don't agree with some of what you said.. And I do think being kind never hurts, but I agree I don't know everything going on so I will stay out of it.. Besides, I have said my peace on the subject.

 

As for the RED camera, I have one thousand reasons to hope that you are wrong and that they succeed wonderfully.

 

Jay

[Matthew W. Phillips]

As for the RED camera, I have one thousand reasons to hope that you are wrong and that they succeed wonderfully.

 

Jay

 

Yeah, I really hope Im wrong too. There are a lot of really cool people who are saving their money, postponing projects, and counting on this type of workflow for their rig. I would hate to see them disappointed after investing money (which they WILL get back) BUT more importantly, the time (which even JJ cant give them back). To me, its the opportunity cost that matters more than the refundable deposit.

[Jay A. Kelley]

Yeah, I really hope Im wrong too. There are a lot of really cool people who are saving their money, postponing projects, and counting on this type of workflow for their rig. I would hate to see them disappointed after investing money (which they WILL get back) BUT more importantly, the time (which even JJ cant give them back). To me, its the opportunity cost that matters more than the refundable deposit.

 

Now THAT sir, is a FINE point for discussion. It is a worry of mine as well.. I think most beginners have waited for the "right equipment" before starting a particular project at some point. This is a very dangerous thing to do. Right now I am putting together a commercial and thinking "boy I wish RED was here for this" but never, not even for one second will I WAIT for that camera. I have faith in Jim Jannard and his ability to pull this off.. I also have faith that it will NOT go as planned.. This is the nature of things.

 

I am NOT saying it's a bad idea to wait for this camera under very specific cirsumstances.. But if anyone and I mean ANYONE thinks this camera will make their work better.. You are in for a bad $17k+ surprise.

 

I tell most of my film students who think this way: "Worry about your sound before you worry about your picture". I don't care how good the pic is if the sound sucks.. But that's another forum.

 

I will never sell my SDX900.. And I am excited to get my RED. But my career, both professionally and artistically, will not wait.

 

Jay

 

I think I can say that Jannard himself would agree.

[Priyesh Puthan Valiyandi]

Like to add my 2 cents. There are several professionals on dvxuser, too, but the big problem with the "others" is that they´re kind of living in a dream world, until now a bunch of them think they can get away with a bit over than 17.500 $ for their initial packages. I have made my own estimates and think around 70.000 $ will be needed, because next to a camera+lens(es)+storage+batteries+tripod+mattebox+etc. you need a fast computer+big monitor+decent raid to process that wavelet-compressed 4K raw data. BTW, very few are considering that sound is as important ( sometimes even more important ) as the image, but look how many times this is mentioned.

 

Also too many people think about 4K, but really, in the end not even 0.1 % of their Red-projects will be shown at this resolution.

 

When I have one of that cameras I´m happy if I can use HD from time to time, here in Germany it´ll be mainly SD.

 

Right now I´m evaluating super-8 since it´s a very interesting format with a unique look and until the Red One is working at full speed and has it´s initial bugs worked out I´ll be using DV / HDV / 16 & 35mm. There are too many people speculating about the big screen, when their real challenge is to shoot nice movies with interesting stories - I´ll be honest, most of the indie-stuff is not what a bigger audience likes to watch and pay for, same tragedy with student films.

 

Bye,

 

P.

[Michael Maier]

Well, all I have to say about it is that I will apoligize for doing the same thing when I hear the RED-heads apoligize for blaming well respected companies like Canon, Sony, DALSA, Panavision, and etc. of industrial espionage. That was just as bad, if not worse, than implying that the break in was a hoax.

 

 

Did Jim or anybody else from RED actually blamed any companies? All I saw was somebody else throwing a joke about SONY. Or are you talking about something that happened on another forum?

[Patrizio De Sica]

Well said Mike!

 

Where have you been? Because we are just a few over here, we need an army to ban these naysayers (not from cinematography.com forum but) from these Red subforum... If you don't want to be Red shooters, stay away and let us prepping our future work!

[Leo Anthony Vale]

Well said Mike!

 

Where have you been? Because we are just a few over here, we need an army to ban these naysayers (not from cinematography.com forum but) from these Red subforum... If you don't want to be Red shooters, stay away and let us prepping our future work!

 

Sounds like the Red forum ought to be moved to a Taliban site.

[David Mullen ASC]

Since when is the purpose of a forum to shut out people with negative comments? If you have a problem with some type of film stock, you aren't shut out of posting about in the Film Stocks & Processing forum. You aren't shut out of making a negative comment about a movie you saw in the On the Big Screen forum. Criticism or skepticism in itself should not be banned from any forum, only unpleasant, cruel, etc. posts or personal attacks.