Galen Carter-Jeffrey Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I shot two rolls of film using my K3 one roll looked fine, the other was just a big blur. Is there anyway to check the registration pin without waiting for you film to come back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Bernie O'Doherty Posted September 27, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted September 27, 2006 Hi, Galen, Your camera does not have a registration pin, just a claw, and one of the quirky things about the K3 is in the loading. The design was never great, and it is so easy for the operator to misload because of the clamp-down rollers in the film chamber. Even when loaded perfectly, the camera has uneven pressure between the feed and take-up rollers, with the claw in the middle fighting to keep everything together. The string they use to provide pressure just doesn't do the trick. You might want to try balancing feed and take-up sides as perfectly as you can, lowering your speed to 12 frames, shooting a few seconds of film, and seeing if it holds the loop. Then close the door and hope for the best. Cheers, Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Carter-Jeffrey Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 You might want to try balancing feed and take-up sides as perfectly as you can, lowering your speed to 12 frames, shooting a few seconds of film, and seeing if it holds the loop. Then close the door and hope for the best. Cheers, Bernie What? I thought these camera's where "built like a tank" Basically I wasted my money on the damn thing if the all I can do is hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Nathan Milford Posted September 27, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted September 27, 2006 Sound like it lost the loop. What? I thought these camera's where "built like a tank" More like 'built in a tank factory.' Basically I wasted my money on the damn thing if the all I can do is hope for the best. You can get them on eBay for under a hundred bucks. All that money wasted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lotuaco Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 What? I thought these camera's where "built like a tank" Basically I wasted my money on the damn thing if the all I can do is hope for the best. Well, you can have a little more faith in these cameras than just "hope for the best". I may not have nearly as much experience with this camera as some, but since I'm so inexperienced with it, I say "if i can do it, anyone can". I just picked up my first couple rolls of film that I shot tests on from the lab today and my K3 has rock solid registration (camera was on locked on tripod and the image was rock solid). I think what Bernie might be referring to is the loop formers that are located above and below the gate. Most people have them removed which makes the camera a "manual load" camera since you now have to form the loops yourself. You form the top loop, run the film through the gate, form the bottom loop and back through the main drive sprocket rather than letting the the loop formers control the path of the film as you run it through. I'm not sure what Bernie is referring to by "feed and take up rollers" since there is only the one drive sprocket with the "keepers" on the feed and take up sides of it. If he's referring to the the loop formers (which I think he might be, since he mentioned the string system), when you close the lid the loop formers are pulled away from the loops that were formed. You can see this happen when you push the little button thing located below the lower loop former. I would assume on some K3's the strings that are used to pull the loop formers away from the loops when the lid is closed, get worn or stretched over time and lose their ability to pull the formers away thus interfering with the film loops once the camera is running. I'm in no way an expert on this camera, I'm just making my most logical assumption of why the removal of the loop formers is usually the first thing recommended to do to a K3. I know on the Bolex's the loop formers are moved away from the loops mechancally so it doesn't have the same problem. Soooo, perhaps that might be what's causing your problem. If a loop former isn't getting pulled away from the loop, it might interfere in some way causing the film to get moved off the pull down claw making the film move around in the gate. Just a guess. But these cameras are built like tanks...except for the string system used to move the loop formers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Will Montgomery Posted September 27, 2006 Premium Member Share Posted September 27, 2006 What? I thought these camera's where "built like a tank" Basically I wasted my money on the damn thing if the all I can do is hope for the best. Built like a Russian Tank, not an M1-A1 Abrams. Meaning that if you get a good one, it will probably hold up for a while, but there are plenty of bad ones out there too. Plus, at $150, its not exactly a huge expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Carter-Jeffrey Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 Built like a Russian Tank, not an M1-A1 Abrams. Meaning that if you get a good one, it will probably hold up for a while, but there are plenty of bad ones out there too. Plus, at $150, its not exactly a huge expense. If I formed the loop too tight and it pulled the pressure plate back a little would that cause a blur? Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Wallensten Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 My K-3 has a steady image when running 24 fps. At 48 fps the picture jumps quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lotuaco Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 If I formed the loop too tight and it pulled the pressure plate back a little would that cause a blur? Thanks for all the help. I would think that would be at least a major factor in it. If the film is pulling the pressur plate back, then the pressure plate isn't holding the film up to the gate properly and the frame is off the film plain ever so slightly and probably just enough to still give you an image but blurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan_bennett Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 If I formed the loop too tight and it pulled the pressure plate back a little would that cause a blur If the pressure plate moves back and forth, rattles a bit, then you loaded wrong or put the pressure plate back in not correctly then yes, you won't have proper registration. A good deal of camera's don't have registration pins, such as the Bolex, so you don't really just pray for the best. As to wasting your money, yes it is a waste of money your money if you just want something to work and not practice and learn how to do it properly and just give up. Obviously if everyone had terrible registration problems, the K3 wouldn't be as popular as it is. I put 1000feet of color negative which costed me hundreds of USD in the end and got beautiful rock steady images. I'm glad I took the chance but this was only after practice, experimentation, and of course some fun (I shot tests that were also shorts, double duty). I know on the Bolex's the loop formers are moved away from the loops mechancally so it doesn't have the same problem. Can't one add a little 'nub' or some sort of device on the cover plate that pushes down the button on the K-3 that opens the loop formers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lotuaco Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Can't one add a little 'nub' or some sort of device on the cover plate that pushes down the button on the K-3 that opens the loop formers? On my K3, the cover plate did push down on the button which opened the loop formers when I put the lid on. The Bolex's loop formers are opened with a system of mechanical levers while the K3 uses strings and pulleys, so that's why I referred to the Bolex being more "mechanical". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Venhaus Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 If the pressure plate is too loose there is a small screw to adjust the spring tension of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Carter-Jeffrey Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 If the pressure plate is too loose there is a small screw to adjust the spring tension of it. should i take out the pressure plate when i load the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Stacewicz Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 should i take out the pressure plate when i load the film? Yes, if you load manually, which I suggest. The autoload isn't realible on most cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Venhaus Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Yes, if you load manually, which I suggest. The autoload isn't realible on most cameras. It is also a good idea to clean it before the loading of each roll of film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Carter-Jeffrey Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 What's the difference between auto load and manual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Stacewicz Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 What's the difference between auto load and manual? On autoload you should just put the end of the film (after you have put the daylight roll on place) into the spring between the upper roller and the sprocket wheel and the film are supposed to feed into the take up wheel at the bottom as you pull the trigger at 8 fps. With manual loading you have to open up the rollers and limiter, take out the pressure plate and apply the film by hand, checking that the teeth/kogs of the sprocket wheel and the pull down claw enters through the perforations of the film, making sure that the loops have the correct size. Then you pull back the rollers and limiter to the original position and fasten the pressure plate to the gate (make sure that the film are aligned to the pathway correctly), wind up some feet of film by hand to the take up roll. It takes more skill but pays out in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Carter-Jeffrey Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Wow! I will definitly do that from now on. I did have a littl trouble getting the film back into the sprockets after it looped and passed through the pressure plate. The sprockets would never catch the film and it would jam, causing me to keep cutting the end off until it loaded correctly. open the rollers and limiter, take out the pressure plate and apply the film by hand, checking that the teeth/kogs of the sprocket wheel and the pull down claw enters through the perforations of the film How do I open the rollers and limiter? Sorry for asking so many questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Stacewicz Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 How do I open the rollers and limiter? Check out this site: http://www.geocities.com/russiancamera/16m...film-manual.htm The limiter is a little arm that makes sure that the film doesn't slide off the sprocket att the lower end. It sits near the pressure plate. It can be pulled towards the gate or towards the roller. Opening it up you just pull it towards the gate. Closing it you pull it back all the way, making sure that it covers the roller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted September 30, 2006 Site Sponsor Share Posted September 30, 2006 I junked the autoload on mine, you can do it by just breaking the 2 plastic formers off. I eventually took it apart and removed all of the autoload system, it helped and you just form the loop by hand. Not as steady as my LTR54, or my B&H 240 either. I think build quality it highly variable on this camera. -Rob- Robert Houllahan Filmmaker VP Cinelab inc. www.cinelab.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Spirk Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Hey Everyone, first post on the boards, lots of good info on these boards. I just had a question about the K3 pricing. I keep reading that everyone is getting the camera for $100, $150, $350, etc. But for example, Duall sells the K3 for $800, and with the mods and crystal sync, it comes out to $1500. What makes these so much more expensive than what you guys are paying for this camera? Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Downes Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Hey Everyone, first post on the boards, lots of good info on these boards. I just had a question about the K3 pricing. I keep reading that everyone is getting the camera for $100, $150, $350, etc. But for example, Duall sells the K3 for $800, and with the mods and crystal sync, it comes out to $1500. What makes these so much more expensive than what you guys are paying for this camera? Thanks for the help! The duall camera is serviced, warrantied, and generally in better shape. The $100/$150/$200 cameras are typically russian imports, and sometimes of questionable build quality. I bought two for under $300, and got 1 good one and one "eh, it'll do as a crash cam" one. With the cheap ones, it's cevat empor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Doolittle Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 A bit of advice on the K3, based on my own experience... The loop formers are more trouble than they're worth. I took the entire auto-loop system out (it consists of a bit of string, two plastic parts, and a spring), and threw it away. I did leave in the little plunger, and gave it its own little spring. Without it the door rattles too much. Load your film carefully and you won't have any problems. Taking the K3 apart is no big deal. It's held together with screws, and if you have any degree of mechanical aptitude you can handle it. Once inside, you'll be amazed. The average toaster is more sophisticated. While you're in there blow out the case with a can of compressed air. I gave the spring in my camera a dab of silicone grease, and after running for a while it became much smoother (It used to vibrate badly as the spring wound down). You could pay someone to do all this professionally, but why? It works remarkably well for a $200 (or less) camera. It offers an unbeatable cost:benefit ratio. I say use it and abuse it. The whole point is to shoot film, not pimp out ratty old Russian cameras. :) TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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