K-3 fluttering issues...sometimes

Jack Schwitz · April 20, 2007

I just got back my first test rolls i have shot with my K-3. It seems to have issues with bleeding whites, jittering, and vertical hold... some of the time. otherwise things look fantastic. i have included two examples of the footage.

looks great

kodak 320t

looks awful

kodak 200t

here is some short clips you will probably have to cut and paste, both probably look terrible on the net anyways.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6140828122060187513

this is the messed up footage above

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4270264564108999566

this is the good stuff

is this 100% loading/operator error? i did not hear anything weird while shooting, everything sounded fine?

ideas?

thanks

jack

Olex Kalynychenko · April 20, 2007

I just got back my first test rolls i have shot with my K-3. It seems to have issues with bleeding whites, jittering, and vertical hold... some of the time. otherwise things look fantastic. i have included two examples of the footage.
..........

is this 100% loading/operator error? i did not hear anything weird while shooting, everything sounded fine?

ideas?

thanks

jack

You need Service, re assembling of mechanism of camera, re-adjust of optical characteristics.

Will need check of film movement with opened lid. The position of cogs wheel and film rollers can be adjust with error.

The gaps between cogs wheel and film rollers very important.

I recommend modify of K-3 and take away of plastic film leading.

You lost of mode of auto film loading, but, receive many other good sides.

And need use of rule. After you stop of take, you need load of spring.

And you will begin of next take with full load spring. At this rule, you will have more high stability speed of all takes

But, the best way - replace of camera on Kinor-16 SX-2M.

After a some time, you will ask about wide angle lens and super wide angle lenses, 400 ft film magazines, and crystal synch speed motor.

Krasnogrosk-3 very good camera, but, have characters.

Patrick Cooper · April 20, 2007

Jack, apart from the problems your having with the camera, that still frame you posted at the top looks great! Good sharpness, clarity and detail. Surely, that can't be the standard 17-69 Meteor zoom - it wouldn't have the reach for such a shot. Out of curiosity, what lens did you use and is it an M42 mount or a bayonet mount?

Jack Schwitz · April 20, 2007

Jack, apart from the problems your having with the camera, that still frame you posted at the top looks great! Good sharpness, clarity and detail. Surely, that can't be the standard 17-69 Meteor zoom - it wouldn't have the reach for such a shot. Out of curiosity, what lens did you use and is it an M42 mount or a bayonet mount?

Patrick, thanks for the compliment! and that is the stock Meteor zoom that came standard with the camera. My K3 is an M42 mount version, which I bought thinking I would have the most choices for lenses. Sadly, since I shot most of the game on the glass, im finding out how important a nice wide prime is...

You need Service, re assembling of mechanism of camera, re-adjust of optical characteristics.
Will need check of film movement with opened lid. The position of cogs wheel and film rollers can be adjust with error.

The gaps between cogs wheel and film rollers very important.

I recommend modify of K-3 and take away of plastic film leading.

You lost of mode of auto film loading, but, receive many other good sides.

And need use of rule. After you stop of take, you need load of spring.

And you will begin of next take with full load spring. At this rule, you will have more high stability speed of all takes

But, the best way - replace of camera on Kinor-16 SX-2M.

After a some time, you will ask about wide angle lens and super wide angle lenses, 400 ft film magazines, and crystal synch speed motor.

Krasnogrosk-3 very good camera, but, have characters.

Olex, thanks I will look into getting the camera serviced soon! and thanks for the heads up on winding the camera after every take!

jack

Edited April 20, 2007 by Jack Schwitz

Patrick Cooper · April 20, 2007

"...and that is the stock Meteor zoom that came standard with the camera."

My gosh!

Ive heard that there have been issues with quality control at the factory that made these cameras and lenses and depending on your luck, you can get a K3 with a good lens or a not so good lens.

It's been a while since Ive viewed footage exposed with my Meteor 17-69 lens but I do recall that the images were quite sharp and crisp but I don't think they had the kind of 'snap' that I see in your top still image. Though perhaps the film stock is a factor here too.

Olex Kalynychenko · April 20, 2007

"...and that is the stock Meteor zoom that came standard with the camera."

My gosh!

Ive heard that there have been issues with quality control at the factory that made these cameras and lenses and depending on your luck, you can get a K3 with a good lens or a not so good lens.

It's been a while since Ive viewed footage exposed with my Meteor 17-69 lens but I do recall that the images were quite sharp and crisp but I don't think they had the kind of 'snap' that I see in your top still image. Though perhaps the film stock is a factor here too.

Meteor-5 very good lens, have very good optical scheme.

Will need check and adjust of flange focal distance of lens mount of lens, and camera and adjust of position of ground glass.

About quality of control at the factory, This is semi- professional cine camera, more , for amateur shooting and have price similar of color TV ( 1985..1990 ), that's why, not need wait from K-3 a quality of professional assembling.

Jack Schwitz · June 25, 2007

Here is a thought on my K3 issues. This small part moves back and forth. does it need to be in one position or the other to apply proper pressure?

Will Montgomery · June 26, 2007

That's happened to me a few times, and my camera HAS been serviced.

While I'm sure a servicing can always help, I bet it's a simple problem of loading. Sometimes when the film is not seated properly, you'll get an entire roll looking like your 200T roll.

I'm assuming that the loop formers have been removed... if not you may want to consider that modification. Once you've manually made the loops on the top & bottom of the gate, I kind of wiggle the film back and forth a little until I'm sure the claw has caught the sprockets. When this happens you can't move the film anymore.

After a while you will hear the difference... it might sound "smoother" than the normal sewing machine sound.

If you think there could be a problem just open up the camera and wiggle the film around the gate. If it moves freely then you have to "re-seat" it. Yes, you will expose part of the film, so I recommend doing this in a changing bag or very dark room.

I know this isn't a real technical response, just a practical one from experience.

Jonathan Bowerbank · June 26, 2007

I can't see much of anything that's impressive about the lens really. Doesn't seem that sharp and it's quite low contrast. Don't know if it's a telecine issue, but those reds should definitely pop more and not have as much grey in them, the black as well. Also, it looks like it's not completely corrected for the arena lighting it was shot under.

The video isn't up anymore, so I'd still like to see the footage you shot! The framing in those stills is quite good.

I was thinkin' of taking an Arri-S with a telephoto to a baseball game sometime this season to get some action shots.

Jack Schwitz · June 30, 2007

That's happened to me a few times, and my camera HAS been serviced.

While I'm sure a servicing can always help, I bet it's a simple problem of loading. Sometimes when the film is not seated properly, you'll get an entire roll looking like your 200T roll.

I'm assuming that the loop formers have been removed... if not you may want to consider that modification. Once you've manually made the loops on the top & bottom of the gate, I kind of wiggle the film back and forth a little until I'm sure the claw has caught the sprockets. When this happens you can't move the film anymore.

After a while you will hear the difference... it might sound "smoother" than the normal sewing machine sound.

If you think there could be a problem just open up the camera and wiggle the film around the gate. If it moves freely then you have to "re-seat" it. Yes, you will expose part of the film, so I recommend doing this in a changing bag or very dark room.

I know this isn't a real technical response, just a practical one from experience.

hey thanks a lot for the advice! i think you pretty much nailed it! when practicing the other day i had to seat the film by wiggling it back and forth a couple of times.

thanks again.