Colin Worley Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Hey everyone. I usually wouldn't do this since it's off the subject, but I'm in love with the art of cinematography and would love to start film school, unfortunately (as many are), I don't have enough money yet. I am spending as much money as I can to get it paid for, although I will need loans. At least the money I am trying to get ($2,000) will help me pay for bills, food, etcetera each month. Well, I was wondering if anyone could help me send this link out to some people who may be interested... https://www.fundable.com/groupactions/group...0-21.9829476413 Basically, it's an online fundraiser that allows people to donate through the internet (Paypal). I would be so grateful if anyone could help me give that link to friends or family, because that would really be a wonderful blessing! My father, and my grandfather were construction workers who have had very bad physical problems from their job, and at one point, I was looking at doing this. I realized what school can do for me, it can really open up many opportunities to do what I love, and eventually be able to support those who are less fortunate. If 200 people (it may seem like a lot, but I know anything is possible) each donated $10, I would be able to reach my goal, and hopefully continue my path towards a better education. Thank you so much for reading this, and I would be so thankful for those who might be willing to show others... this is honestly helping me to help myself. Thanks again fellow filmmakers! God Bless! Sincerely, Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Bowerbank Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 (edited) We're not the ones with the money in this industry, so I'm guessing you're posting this here as an act of desperation. It's highly unlikely someone's going to donate anything to an aspiring film student, sorry to rain on your parade, but it's true. And only $2000? You can easily get that from a student bank loan if you REALLY need it. Do you at least have some examples of the work you've done to convince would be donors? Edited October 21, 2007 by Jonathan Bowerbank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Worley Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Okay, thanks for the heads up... but it was worth a try. You never know unless you try. -Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted October 21, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 21, 2007 Here's a donation in the form of my .02. Save your money for film school and spend it at your local video store. It truly is the best film school around. Everything you learn in film school can be learned from watching movies. Regards, Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William A Chapman Jr Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Here's a donation in the form of my .02. Save your money for film school and spend it at your local video store. It truly is the best film school around. Everything you learn in film school can be learned from watching movies. Regards, Matthew And reading the many books on the subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted October 21, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 21, 2007 Everything you learn in film school can be learned from watching movies. Regards, Matthew That's an exaggeration. Watching movies is all well and good, but it doesn't prepare you for being on a set actually making a film. I'd suggest working as a PA for a while, or in some position on set to learn how things work, as a much better pseudo film school than just watching movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted October 21, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 21, 2007 That's an exaggeration. Watching movies is all well and good, but it doesn't prepare you for being on a set actually making a film. I'd suggest working as a PA for a while, or in some position on set to learn how things work, as a much better pseudo film school than just watching movies. Nothing prepares you for being on set except for actually being on set. Not even those lame school projects they have you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Zemskih Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Here's a donation in the form of my .02. Save your money for film school and spend it at your local video store. It truly is the best film school around. Everything you learn in film school can be learned from watching movies. Regards, Matthew I always found this argument a bit ridiculous, as it is coming from the same logic as thinking that you can write a symphony by listening to a lot of music. There are just so many many people who think they know how to make films because they have watched so many of them and it is usually not true. I really disagree with you that film school doesn't teach you anything as well, I mean if you feel that you never needed it, it is fine, but that doesn't mean somebody else won't benefit from it And it is not that easy to always get to the proper film set to learn from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted October 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2007 I always found this argument a bit ridiculous, as it is coming from the same logic as thinking that you can write a symphony by listening to a lot of music. There are just so many many people who think they know how to make films because they have watched so many of them and it is usually not true. I really disagree with you that film school doesn't teach you anything as well, I mean if you feel that you never needed it, it is fine, but that doesn't mean somebody else won't benefit from it And it is not that easy to always get to the proper film set to learn from it. It's all about resources. If I had $120,000 for film school, why not go learn by doing instead? You obviously agree that there is no substitute for doing something and learning from your mistakes, right? And watching movies does a WORLD of good if you watch from the perspective of learning instead of from entertainment. Don't argue with me on that one, argue with countless people in the industry who study others films and learn from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Bowerbank Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 There are too many paths to success in the industry to argue for or against any one of them. Whatever you feel works for you is always the best decision. There are just as many failed filmmakers with a degree as their are failed filmmakers without a degree. Same goes for the number of success stories out there. And I base these statistics on nothing ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted October 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2007 There are too many paths to success in the industry to argue for or against any one of them. Whatever you feel works for you is always the best decision. There are just as many failed filmmakers with a degree as their are failed filmmakers without a degree. Same goes for the number of success stories out there. And I base these statistics on nothing ;) Very well put...I have no argument with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted October 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2007 You learn from doing, not watching. There are a lot of different paths to learn how to make a film, but watching movies isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Zemskih Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 It's all about resources. If I had $120,000 for film school, why not go learn by doing instead? You obviously agree that there is no substitute for doing something and learning from your mistakes, right? And watching movies does a WORLD of good if you watch from the perspective of learning instead of from entertainment. Don't argue with me on that one, argue with countless people in the industry who study others films and learn from them. Well first of all, not every film school costs 120,000. There are also MA programs which are only two years and less money. The schools in England and France are also cheaper. Not to mention free schools such as La Femis or FAMU. I am sure this topic has been discussed in length here, but again, a point many agree on, don't discourage people from going to school, just because you feel it is not necessary for you. You do learn from doing, but you also do it by studying, I have seen film schools that are only practical and I didn't need that, because I have already been shooting by myself before that, I needed someone to also sit me done and tell me how it is done, before doing something. Plus sometimes you can't afford to properly shoot on film and prof. lights by yourself, when in school you get that and you learn a lot from it. Second, I don't think it does a WORLD of good for you if you just watch everything from the local video store, there are of course movies that are great and you learn a great deal by thinking how they were done and that does good for you. However, I think there are so many many bad movies out there that it is not necessary to study them or even watch them, you can study why a particular film is bad, but if you watch too many of them it might do you more harm. All those people who want to be like Tarantino or Smith get a job at a rental store and watch tons and tons of movies, but I wouldn't consider them to work on my set based on how many films they watched. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamBray Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 (edited) I got an idea. How about get a job like all the other students? Have some self respect and quit with the internet begging. Edited October 22, 2007 by AdamBray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted October 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2007 > The schools in England and France are also cheaper. And you get what you pay for. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted October 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2007 You learn from doing, not watching. There are a lot of different paths to learn how to make a film, but watching movies isn't one of them. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I dont see how you find no merit at all in studying movies by watching. I sortof liken it to a football team watching film of previous games and spotting mistakes. Where would football teams be without the films they watch? But, to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Worley Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Thanks for all the info... well, I've heard some insane stories of people asking for money on line, and it actually working. (Just check out gimmeabuck.com over 75 thousand dollars!) Well, I knew I wouldn't get very much, but it was fun asking anyway hehe. I do have a job, but I'm always looking for extra money. By the way, I wasn't really "begging", rather asking for any spare change :) (What's the difference?). Well, I'm very interested in cinematography and I'll post a reel, so that way it doesn't just seem like I came on here to beg... Thanks, Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted October 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2007 I dont see how you find no merit at all in studying movies by watching. Well, I never said that I find no merit in watching movies....I'm not sure where you came up with that. What I said is that no amount of WATCHING movies will teach you how to MAKE movies. You have to do it to be any good at it. People who just watch movies have no comprehension of how a set runs and how things are actually done. They have no idea what kind of preparation goes into making a movie. Unfortunately, I've been around long enough to have worked with some of these people who think they know how to make movies because they've watched them.....what a disaster! I sortof liken it to a football team watching film of previous games and spotting mistakes. Where would football teams be without the films they watch? But they're already football players! They know how to play! Do you really think some guy could watch football religiously every Sunday for ten years and go out the next weekend and play in the NFL? That's not gonna happen. You have to practice and play for years to get good enough to play at anywhere near that level. No amount of watching will make you any good at football. Also, there were plenty of football games before the players were able to watch previous games. I think you're using a flawed analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted October 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2007 Well, I never said that I find no merit in watching movies....I'm not sure where you came up with that. What I said is that no amount of WATCHING movies will teach you how to MAKE movies. You have to do it to be any good at it. People who just watch movies have no comprehension of how a set runs and how things are actually done. They have no idea what kind of preparation goes into making a movie.Unfortunately, I've been around long enough to have worked with some of these people who think they know how to make movies because they've watched them.....what a disaster! But they're already football players! They know how to play! Do you really think some guy could watch football religiously every Sunday for ten years and go out the next weekend and play in the NFL? That's not gonna happen. You have to practice and play for years to get good enough to play at anywhere near that level. No amount of watching will make you any good at football. Also, there were plenty of football games before the players were able to watch previous games. I think you're using a flawed analogy. The problem with this argument is it is a difference of schools of thought. You seem to be of the school of thought that making movies is about technical prowess, which is part of it. I'm more of an artistic type who goes for the creative aspect moreso than technical. I guess that's why you choose to be a DP and I choose to Direct. I don't think your way of thinking is wrong, however, just different. You seem to think I'm wrong and that's fine. But even if I stink as a DP, it doesn't matter if I have the sense to realize that I stink and hire someone who doesn't. It's not all about technical skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Zemskih Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 The problem with this argument is it is a difference of schools of thought. You seem to be of the school of thought that making movies is about technical prowess, which is part of it. I'm more of an artistic type who goes for the creative aspect moreso than technical. I guess that's why you choose to be a DP and I choose to Direct. I don't think your way of thinking is wrong, however, just different. You seem to think I'm wrong and that's fine. But even if I stink as a DP, it doesn't matter if I have the sense to realize that I stink and hire someone who doesn't. It's not all about technical skills. I'm a director and I think film is very much about technical as it is about artistic skills, but also skills. But you get them not from watching all the movies, but also by reading books, studying photography and paintings. What it comes down to, your advise on saying don't go to school, go to the local store and just watch movies is not a good advice for someone who wants to be a filmmaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Justin Hayward Posted October 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2007 I'm more of an artistic type who goes for the creative aspect moreso than technical. The old joke is the two entry level positions on a film are PA and director. I agree the director doesn't need to know certain tech stuff to make a film, but its funny how sometimes people that know very little about any of the individual parts of making a film, usually feel they're quite qualified to be captain of the whole ship. If I walked onto a construction site and started bossing people around, they'd probably call the police. I know nothing about construction, but I've seen a lot of buildings. That said, watching a lot of films certainly isn't going to hurt. The best part of film school for me was all the friends I made. A couple have gone on to become quite successful directors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted October 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2007 If I walked onto a construction site and started bossing people around, they'd probably call the police. I know nothing about construction, but I've seen a lot of buildings. I feel I can run a construction company, and I've never done it professionally...why? Because I have management education and management experience. Management is universal, regardless of what you're managing. Is the CEO of Microsoft not able to be the CEO for Baskin-Robbins? I think I'm not the only one using incorrect analogies around here. Anyhow, I'm done with this argument. If you want to go to film school, go. But don't get up here attempting to solicit money. I think it's tacky. Sortof like going to Wal-Mart and being swarmed by people asking for donations for Youth Camps and such. I don't go there for that and I don't come here for that. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Zemskih Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I feel I can run a construction company, and I've never done it professionally...why? Because I have management education and management experience. Management is universal, regardless of what you're managing. Is the CEO of Microsoft not able to be the CEO for Baskin-Robbins? I think I'm not the only one using incorrect analogies around here. So you think the CEO of Microsoft would be a good film director!? Since the director is like a manager and all. I mean talk about bad analogies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Zemskih Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 (edited) > I feel I can run a construction company, and I've never done it professionally...why? Because I have management education and management experience. Management is universal, regardless of what you're managing. Is the CEO of Microsoft not able to be the CEO for Baskin-Robbins? I think I'm not the only one using incorrect analogies around here. I think you are also confusing a managerial position with that of the CEO, the CEO would be the owner of a production company, thus CEO of Microsoft would be somewhat able to run Warner Brothers for example. But being a manager (such as director or a construction work supervisor) is different because it doesn't just require overall manager skills, it requires a lot more understanding of how everything is done. So no, just by having general managing skills you mind find yourself telling your construction workers something very ridiculous (such as building something that doesn't work architecturally) . Edited October 22, 2007 by Emile Rafael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted October 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2007 I think you are also confusing a managerial position with that of the CEO A Chief Executive Officer is a managerial position. They answer to the shareholders, or more specifically, the Board of Directors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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