Old Fashion Editing

Derrick Mullins · April 3, 2008

I would love to edit my S8 films the with cutting and splicing. I want to keep the ancient art alive and I love the fact that my films can be created by my own hands. But I certanly can't afford to ruin my films. I would like to know if you guys could give me a "How To" method on this kind of editing. Any info would be great!

Paul Bruening · April 3, 2008

Don't cut your original footage until all your decisions have been worked out with a SD workprint or S8mm workprint. Cut your originals off of the workprint. The more you can handle the prints the better your decisions will be. The less you handle the originals, the better they will hold up.

Jean-Louis Seguin · April 3, 2008

I would love to edit my S8 films the with cutting and splicing. I want to keep the ancient art alive and I love the fact that my films can be created by my own hands. But I certanly can't afford to ruin my films. I would like to know if you guys could give me a "How To" method on this kind of editing. Any info would be great!

I have cut a lot of super8 original over the years and here I have never damaged film.

Here is my advice:

Set aside an area that you can keep as clean and dust-free as possible.

Only manipulate film by holding it by the edges.

Clean film periodically with anti-static film cleaner. Wash your hands very often or use moist towelettes.

Use a splicer with pre-perforated tapes. My favorites are #1 Wurker and #2 Fujica .

Avoid Guillotine splicers, especially the plastic ones. The cutters that punch the holes in the tape can damage the perfs.

Avoid editing gloves, the fibers will stick to the splicing tape and drive you crazy (Lenny Lipton said this many years ago and he was right!).

Have fun!

Jean-Louis

Derrick Mullins · April 3, 2008

Don't cut your original footage until all your decisions have been worked out with a SD workprint or S8mm workprint. Cut your originals off of the workprint. The more you can handle the prints the better your decisions will be. The less you handle the originals, the better they will hold up.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

Avoid editing gloves, the fibers will stick to the splicing tape and drive you crazy

I was never going to use gloves anyway.

I would like to know if there is some kind of specific razor or any other optional cutting device that I would need and what would be the actual process in the cutting?

Bengt Freden · April 4, 2008

Hi Derrick,

I have used Fujica, Würker and Bolex tape splicers (with the slim Bolex being my favourite of these) but my Nr. 1 all time-favourite splicer is the German Hähnel 'Kollmatic' SD-8 (or the identical, also German, Braun FK-1) motorized beveled-edge cement splicer. After an initial period of training on waste film or leader material, I think you will appreciate the thin and smooth splices that you can achieve with this remarkable little AA battery-operated machine. Moreover, with the aid of a very fine-tipped black permanent marker and a magnifying glass, you may 'paint' the one frame where the splice is - and your splice will be impossible to detect in projection (or when transfered), especially if you run at 24 fps with a 3-bladed projector! You have to use a dust blower regularly, though, to blow away the grinding dust from the film base and emulsion, which otherwise might end up on your film or in your splice. I use Kodak´s Professional Cement, which is OK for all film bases except polyester-based (the slightly thinner Fuji Single-8 films, for example).

It looks like this and can be seen under 'editing equipment' on eBay from time to time, where it usually sells for next-to-nothing:

Good luck with your originl reversal film or preparatory negative cutting - it is great fun!

/ Bengt in Stockholm ;)

Peter Harkness · April 4, 2008

I've made several super-8 films over the years. Here is one zero-budget workflow which mixes the old and the new:

1. Shoot on reversal film.

2. When you get your film back from the lab, PROJECT it onto a wall and videotape it with a DV camcorder.

3. Make an "offline" edit of your movie in the computer so that you know what footage you really need and what footage you don't need.

4. Use a VIEWER and a SPLICER to assemble all of the footage you need onto a single reel.

5. Send that reel to The Transfer Station in CA (http://thetransferstation.com/) for a Rank telecine transfer to MiniDV. This is a very affordable route. If you weedle your footage down to just the stuff you need, all of it mounted onto a single 20 minute reel, you may get the Transfer Station's $100/hr minimum + fees. ~$150 for a Rank transfer is nice.

6. Edit final product again "online" at final quality on computer.

7. Send your masterpiece to festivals and watch the cash prizes roll in ;)

So, with a super-8 camera, a projector, a viewer, a splicer, a DV camcorder, and a computer, you can be a one-person super-8 production studio at very low costs. If you shoot 24fps super-8, you will probably want a 24fps projector also.

Personally, I swear by my Minette S4 viewer and Ciro tape splicer. I researched viewers for a bit, and the Minette S4 and S5 are said to be very easy on film. I can vouch for that! It is a pleasure to use. The Ciro tape splicer is a tiny plastic splicer, and the tape is made such that splices cover two frames exactly, making edit points mostly invisible. If you send your super-8 film off to a lab for telecine, they will probably remove your tape splices and make their own cement splices anyway (at least, this is what The Transfer Station does) so personally I do not think cement splicers are worth the trouble of maintaining. I can still buy new tape for my Ciro and it lasts forever.

Minette S4

http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Minette_Viewer_Editor_S-4

Ciro Splicers and Tape:

http://www.super8stuff.com/super8editingsupplies.html

Good luck.

Derrick Mullins · April 4, 2008

Wow! Thanks for all the info guys! I love that others feel the same passion I do. I've searched alot on the internet but couldn't find much on this subject. I feel digtal is taking the "work" out of filmmaking. But thats just my opinion. Thanks alot!

Phillip Wood · April 6, 2008

i found some info on splicing here;

http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/edit/art1.html

Derrick Mullins · April 6, 2008

I thought it was funny how the article likes to point out non-professional ways. But its very informative. The splicer I use is a Switt Automatic splicer. Its pretty simple and small but it works. I found it cheap on ebay. I was also wondering if you actually need a viewer or is it required?

Edited April 6, 2008 by Derrick Mullins

Brian Drysdale · April 6, 2008

I thought it was funny how the article likes to point out non-professional ways. But its very informative. The splicer I use is a Switt Automatic splicer. Its pretty simple and small but it works. I found it cheap on ebay. I was also wondering if you actually need a viewer or is it required?

From when I shot 8mm, you do need a viewer. The frames are so small you can't see that much or make judgements on movement. You need one for 16mm as well, unless you're neg cutting and just matching the edge numbers in a synchroniser.

Phillip Wood · April 7, 2008

can cement be used on all of the current Super 8 Stock? kodak, fuji, wittner..?

Leo Anthony Vale · April 7, 2008

can cement be used on all of the current Super 8 Stock? kodak, fuji, wittner..?

On all acetate base stocks. Estar base won't work.

Bill DiPietra · April 10, 2008

Wow! Thanks for all the info guys! I love that others feel the same passion I do. I've searched alot on the internet but couldn't find much on this subject. I feel digtal is taking the "work" out of filmmaking. But thats just my opinion. Thanks alot!

Hey...some of us even have our own 16mm Steenbecks in our basements! ;)

Good luck and enjoy.

Nate Downes · April 10, 2008

Hey...some of us even have our own 16mm Steenbecks in our basements! ;)

Good luck and enjoy.

Egads, and I just have a B&H set w/ viewer, splicer and rewinds....

Charles Doran · April 10, 2008

I used to love splicing the old fashioned way...Used a Hervic (RIP)... easiest splicer in the world. Wish I could still find some of the tape patches...Anyone have a cache hidden away they don't need?

Edited April 10, 2008 by Charles Doran

Jim Carlile · April 11, 2008

Otto Herskovic (Hervic) is the brother of the guy who started Bel Air Camera in Westwood. A few months ago I sent someone over there to track down some of those Minette splices-- they were going to try to get some for him. Maybe they have them now. Otto H. used to have a bunch of his old leftover stuff in his garage somewhere.

Also, there's a chance that Irv Higdon might have some, too.

About those splices-- the newer ones dry out and the paper backing sticks to the tape-- so you have to prise them apart with tweezers to help them along, or you end up with a crumpled mess.

Richardson Leao · April 11, 2008

You won't regret to do it using a viewer and a splicer...

This is a nice book:

CUT ? ALL ABOUT SPLICERS

u can get it for free if you subscribe smallformat:

http://smallformat.schiele-schoen.de

I remember seeing a video on how to use a cement splicer that helped me heaps. cAN'T FIND RIGHT NOW BUT YOU'LL FIND A LOT OF INFO HERE:

http://www.folkstreams.net/vafp/

I got so hooked onto cutting by hand that I ended up buyng a KEM (like a stenbeck) table:

http://bp1.blogger.com/_YV-nMLm2V4E/R3eRU5...0-h/Kem16mm.jpg

Go for it man! No fear!

Edited April 11, 2008 by Richardson Leao

Richardson Leao · April 11, 2008

btw, my table is not in the basement... I dedicated a room in my house specially for it... Sometimes I even think that the only reason why I bought a house was to fit the table ;)

Edited April 11, 2008 by Richardson Leao