Asking for some grip advice

Tim O'Connor · July 31, 2008

I'm going to be doing a bit of gripping coming up and i have two questions.

One, on the equipment order after the nets and flags is listed a 2' X 3' sandwich.

I looked on some manufacturer's sites and didn't see anything with that name. I haven't heard it before but I know everything else on the list and it doesn't seem to be a special

order. Also, there are floppies ordered on the list so it doesn't seem to be a nickname for one of those. Is it something really basic?

Also, I know some knots but haven't done a lot of rigging in a while. A 1.2K HMI Par is going all the way up on a mombo-combo to shine in through a second floor window in an apartment building. The stand is going to be in the small space, say 5' to 7' feet between the building and a chain link fence. I would think that the stand ought to be tied off well. What knots would you choose? How would you secure this? There is the fence of course but no place such as a balcony on the building, although I think that maybe a line could be swung in and around the window frame but have to check. I think that there should be a safety up higher or else tying it just to the fence would be like that old joke

Man: I'm stuck in this tree.

Man below: Catch this rope. I'll pull you down.

Thanks!

Also, I started today making frames so that I can build myself a set of flags and nets and

diffusion frames. I'll keep people posted. I'm looking for a good place to buy bobbinet. I believe that the bobbinet that is used in double nets is sewn in a certain way in order to avoid the possibility of moire patterns appearing when a light is shone through a double at just the right distance.

Yes, this jig is primitive but I did it fast in my eagerness and the 18" X 24" frame came out

evenly. I'll build a more durable one as I start mass producing them.

Daniel Wallens · July 31, 2008

A sandwich is a set of 4 flags: a silk, a double net, a single net, and a solid (or really, 2 solids, so that the three other flags can be carried in between the two solids easily... and hence the term "sandwich").

A floppy is a 4x4 solid flag, with a 4x4 flop of duvetyne sewn to it, so that it can be "flopped" out to make a 4x8 flag.

What you are doing with your 1.2 is not really rigging. Do not tie the stand to anything. A 1.2K HMI is not really a big light, and there shouldn't be a lot of wind if it's hugged up against the side of a building. Regardless, do not tie it. Make sure the stand it properly bagged, avoid using the top/first riser if possible, and make sure all the knuckles are tightened down securely. Mombos have a maximum height of about 23 to 27 feet (depending on manufacturer and line). If you really need to go this high or higher, get the light up there another way. It's much better to do it the right way than the harmful way.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Daniel Wallens

Tim O'Connor · July 31, 2008

A sandwich is a set of 4 flags: a silk, a double net, a single net, and a solid (or really, 2 solids, so that the three other flags can be carried in between the two solids easily... and hence the term "sandwich").

A floppy is a 4x4 solid flag, with a 4x4 flop of duvetyne sewn to it, so that it can be "flopped" out to make a 4x8 flag.

What you are doing with your 1.2 is not really rigging. Do not tie the stand to anything. A 1.2K HMI is not really a big light, and there shouldn't be a lot of wind if it's hugged up against the side of a building. Regardless, do not tie it. Make sure the stand it properly bagged, avoid using the top/first riser if possible, and make sure all the knuckles are tightened down securely. Mombos have a maximum height of about 23 to 27 feet (depending on manufacturer and line). If you really need to go this high or higher, get the light up there another way. It's much better to do it the right way than the harmful way.

Thank you, Daniel. I will make sure that it's securely bagged and sturdy.

It's funny that a sandwich was ordered when on the list forwarded to me there is also a list of those items but not as if to itemize the sandwich, rather as if they're also being ordered individually. It's funny, I rent an 18" X 24" 'set' fairly often from my local rental house, different than the rental place on this job, and it's practically the same thing (comes with a cookie instead of the second solid) and I haven't heard "sandwich" there. I looked on Mathews Studio Equipment griptionary and didn't find it there. Glad I asked here.

It sounds like you have a strong feeling against tying. I'm sure that you're right. Can you tell me why? I get the sense from your reply that tying it off would be making things less safe. If somebody else suggests to do that, I'd like to know why you feel (it seems to me) so emphatically against it.

This is a great forum. It's a bit embarrassing to ask things that I think I ought to know but I'd rather ask and get it right and people on here are always helpful. Asking was less painful in the days before this was a real name forum though!

David Auner aac · July 31, 2008

Hi Tim,

nice job on that frame. How did you go about it? Material used? Welder used?

Cheers, Dave

Tim O'Connor · July 31, 2008

Hi Tim,

nice job on that frame. How did you go about it? Material used? Welder used?

Cheers, Dave

Hi Dave,

It's 3/8" mild steel, pretty much the same as used in the solid I rented the day before from the local rental house except that was also stainless steel.

I also got 5/16" steel for the little hook, or appendix as somebody called it, on the stem that I was asking about in that post a couple days ago. I wanted the size to be the same so that on any set, it would feel and work the same for anybody as any other flag/net/diffusion frame.

The thing's pretty sturdy. I couldn't pull it apart and I gave it a couple of good bounces off the shop floor and my driveway.

I used a Lincoln Electric 220V box welder with 6013 1/8" rod yesterday but I'm probably going to switch to using MIG once I get the workflow

sorted out and my assembly line (well, okay, me and my cottage industry.)

I'm also working on a 19" X 25" frame. It's like an 18" X 24" but, well think of "Spinal Tap", "mine goes up to eleven."

I think given a choice, the entire production world will switch to the 19 X 25 s.

Michael Collier · July 31, 2008

Frame looks good. The only suggestion i have is to leave one end open, especially for the nets. Its common to have the net cover only part of the beam (otherwise you might use a wire scrim) and its best if the frame itself doesn't cast a shadow. usually you have 3 sides to a frame in metal, and one side made of thin wire to hold the net securely. The exception is of course solids, with solids they are 4 sided (or open frames, very usefull to have a few opens around.)

JD Hartman · July 31, 2008

Hard to tell for certain, but in the first photo it appears that you're stick welding without a shield. You don't value your corneas? In the second image, you are making the frame from seperate pieces of rod. I'd switch to bending the frames up, fewer joints, less work. Only three welds for a net or a flag. Use a piece of 1/2" steel pipe bolted down to make your radius bends.

Tim O'Connor · July 31, 2008

No never JD but that probably is not a role model photo. Because I was laying such a short bead, if you would call it an actual bead, I switched to holding the welding mask in my left hand so that I could line up and then hold the mask where I could look through it and strike. I am wearing clear safety glasses because I always do anyway but I would never go without the welding lens. I don't want that kind of pain, much less potential damage. Thank you for your concern. It is hard to see the helmet in that photo so I hope that nobody gets the wrong idea. It's going to be very hard to be a DP if you look unprotected at an arc like that. It's going to be pretty hard actually to do anything except experience pain and be mad at yourself.

That's a great suggestion about bending the frames, thanks!

Michael, this first one is intended to be a solid because I figure that if I get the workflow down I can get duvetyne the easiest of materials and have something working right away. I'm still looking for a good place to buy net material but I do plan on making them three sided. I looked on Mathews Grip site and it seems that they sell every type of fabric except the scrim net materials.

Also, I'm going to make some open frames for putting on whatever may be needed such as a particular gel on a certain day. I think that I might make those with the flat stock that is often used because it ought to make it easier to attach gels. Thank you for your comments.

By the way I found what was to me surprising information. On the MSE website, it gives descriptions of all the fabrics, including the nets even though it doesn't sell that material separately from the frames. I've always though of a single as cutting .5 and a double as cutting 1 but on the website

it said .6 and 1.2, respectively. I suppose that's not such a big difference but I wonder if every other single and double through the years has been

rounded off or if these numbers are unique to Mathews current nets.

I mean, it's like how uneven the metric system is with a kilometer being .6 of a mile. Why can't they fix everything and round it off so that a kilometer could be .5 of 5,280 feet? It would make measuring distances and converting so much more sensible.

I think I'll go out and run half a league or for 30 minutes.

robert duke · August 1, 2008

No never JD but that probably is not a role model photo. Because I was laying such a short bead, if you would call it an actual bead, I switched to holding the welding mask in my left hand so that I could line up and then hold the mask where I could look through it and strike. I am wearing clear safety glasses because I always do anyway but I would never go without the welding lens. I don't want that kind of pain, much less potential damage. Thank you for your concern. It is hard to see the helmet in that photo so I hope that nobody gets the wrong idea. It's going to be very hard to be a DP if you look unprotected at an arc like that. It's going to be pretty hard actually to do anything except experience pain and be mad at yourself.

That's a great suggestion about bending the frames, thanks!

Michael, this first one is intended to be a solid because I figure that if I get the workflow down I can get duvetyne the easiest of materials and have something working right away. I'm still looking for a good place to buy net material but I do plan on making them three sided. I looked on Mathews Grip site and it seems that they sell every type of fabric except the scrim net materials.

Also, I'm going to make some open frames for putting on whatever may be needed such as a particular gel on a certain day. I think that I might make those with the flat stock that is often used because it ought to make it easier to attach gels. Thank you for your comments.

By the way I found what was to me surprising information. On the MSE website, it gives descriptions of all the fabrics, including the nets even though it doesn't sell that material separately from the frames. I've always though of a single as cutting .5 and a double as cutting 1 but on the website

it said .6 and 1.2, respectively. I suppose that's not such a big difference but I wonder if every other single and double through the years has been

rounded off or if these numbers are unique to Mathews current nets.

I mean, it's like how uneven the metric system is with a kilometer being .6 of a mile. Why can't they fix everything and round it off so that a kilometer could be .5 of 5,280 feet? It would make measuring distances and converting so much more sensible.

I think I'll go out and run half a league or for 30 minutes.

check rosebrand.com for the bobinette.

David Auner aac · August 1, 2008

I mean, it's like how uneven the metric system is with a kilometer being .6 of a mile. Why can't they fix everything and round it off so that a kilometer could be .5 of 5,280 feet? It would make measuring distances and converting so much more sensible.

Nope, why can't you guys just get sensible at last and start using metric. That would make measuring distances and converting so much more sensible. :D

Cheers, Dave

robert duke · August 1, 2008

Nope, why can't you guys just get sensible at last and start using metric. That would make measuring distances and converting so much more sensible. :D

Cheers, Dave

I think I would prefer it.