The end of Red One waiting list

[Patrizio De Sica]

KW... Have you been tracing my memorabilia towards you? :D

 

 

It seems like english is not the first language of a few others as it really your chauvinism makes sense. But you can easily translate to your own tongue from my own native, given the fact I believe it's not hard for you to become a fluent polyglot:

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/chauvinistic

 

1. Militant devotion to and glorification of one's country; fanatical patriotism.

2. Prejudiced belief in the superiority of one's own gender, group, or kind.

 

If on the first, you have my credits that you're out from there (am I wrong? :huh: ), it just remains the second one.

 

totally yours,

KW BS Glaneur

 

Wth?

 

Are you hacking my account, Jim Murdoch?

[Keith Walters]

Wth?

 

Are you hacking my account, Jim Murdoch?

Make that 180 posts.

 

I should think if Jim Murdoch was capable of hacking into anybody's account it would be his own to get it back from the low-life who hijacked it.

 

By the way, do you own a Red yet?

Got any footage to show us?

Do you at least have a serial number reserved, or has that scheme expired?

 

To the moderators:

Please don't close this thread down just because Peraska has come on here again to try to start an argument. If you keep doing that it just gives them an easy form of de-facto censorship.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Keith Walters

[Stephen Williams]

I didn't see the rumored DSLR killer in the mix.

 

-Fran

 

Hi Fran,

 

It became to a RED One killer!

 

Stephen

[Keith Walters]

Hi Fran,

 

It became to a RED One killer!

 

Stephen

So, rather than ever having a Red design stabilized and totally de-bugged, it appears owners will be forever enticed to upgrade to a more advanced design in a similar state of flux, for fear of being left behind technologically.

 

Wait a minute - isn't that what they call a "Red Queen's Race"? :P

 

From Wikipedia:

The Red Queen's race is an incident that appears in Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking-Glass and involves the Red Queen, a representation of a Queen in chess, and Alice constantly running but remaining in the same spot.

 

"Well, in our country," said Alice, still panting a little, "you'd generally get to somewhere else ? if you run very fast for a long time, as we've been doing."

 

"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"

[Sam Wells]

Hi Sam,

 

At $12,000 for the brain?

 

-Fran

 

A little steep for "FF" I agree. I don't think will put Nikon or Canon out of business. The PJ's don't need 5K, nor want to have that much invested in a camera body (and @ $12 it's not even the body) for travel. Although I'd like it.

 

Closer to my "24 fps D3" dream than anything else to date tho....

 

$ 7,5 for S35 / "DX" -- problem is I'm spoiled by FF/24x36 :(

 

-Sam

[Jean Leclerc]

So, rather than ever having a Red design stabilized and totally de-bugged, it appears owners will be forever enticed to upgrade to a more advanced design in a similar state of flux, for fear of being left behind technologically.

 

Wait a minute - isn't that what they call a "Red Queen's Race"? :P

 

From Wikipedia:

The Red Queen's race is an incident that appears in Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking-Glass and involves the Red Queen, a representation of a Queen in chess, and Alice constantly running but remaining in the same spot.

 

"Well, in our country," said Alice, still panting a little, "you'd generally get to somewhere else ? if you run very fast for a long time, as we've been doing."

 

"A slow sort of country!" said the Queen. "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"

 

Get a life dude!

[Brian Langeman]

hehe agreed

[Francis Kuhn]

Hi Fran,

 

It became to a RED One killer!

 

Stephen

 

 

Stephen,

 

Judging from the response of RED ONE owners going on at REDuser, I think you are right.

 

Just my opinion, but the original Scarlet concept would have been a better marketing choice if RED wanted to keep the early adopters happy. Seems like market forces (Canon and Nikon) pushed them in another direction and they made the dangerous choice to go with what I believe is a better camera design.

 

RED are now in the Big Game. I don't envy those guys. They've worked long and hard to produce a great camera and concepts, but they now have the same dilemma that faces Nikon and Canon. It's difficult enough when you only have to compete with the other guys, much tougher when you also have to compete with yourself.

 

This will certainly be a good marketing case study in a few years.

 

-Fran

[Thomas James]

Red is indeed the DSLR killer. The concept behind Red is that you use a video camera to shoot stills with and that you obtain your stills using frame grabs of the video footage. That way you always get the perfect shot which is impossible with a conventional camera. Of course you have to set your shutter speed high enough in order to freeze each frame of the video footage and this usually results in choppy video footage. However Red shoots at such high speeds such as 100 frames per second that your video footage will still look smooth even though you use a high shutter speed. Red video cameras totally obsolete all digital still cameras.

[Francis Kuhn]

However Red shoots at such high speeds such as 100 frames per second that your video footage will still look smooth even though you use a high shutter speed. Red video cameras totally obsolete all digital still cameras.

 

Hi Thomas,

 

What file size is produced by the DSLR killer at 100 fps? How will it stand up to the 1Ds MKIII file? Not to mention a Phase Back. Clients might see a difference. Just saying. . .

 

-Fran

[Brian Drysdale]

Red is indeed the DSLR killer. The concept behind Red is that you use a video camera to shoot stills with and that you obtain your stills using frame grabs of the video footage. That way you always get the perfect shot which is impossible with a conventional camera. Of course you have to set your shutter speed high enough in order to freeze each frame of the video footage and this usually results in choppy video footage. However Red shoots at such high speeds such as 100 frames per second that your video footage will still look smooth even though you use a high shutter speed. Red video cameras totally obsolete all digital still cameras.

 

Err... you can buy a number of DSLR cameras for a price of a RED.

 

I suspect the new cameras won't be recording all the data per motion frame that a DSLR does on each stills frame. Perhaps the plan is to allow you to shoot stills frames as you film, so that you have these stills recorded in some manner at a higher resolution than the normal video footage.

 

If you don't do this you're going to have to record all your video at the same extremely large data rate that's needed for the stills.

 

A high shutter speed on the RED will look like "Saving Private Ryan": the 35mm sensor REDs shoot at up to 30fps for max resolution ( the Epic goes up to 100fps, but it's hardly a DSLR replacement) and you use a windowed sensor for the higher frame rates.

[Francis Kuhn]

The concept behind Red is that you use a video camera to shoot stills with and that you obtain your stills using frame grabs of the video footage. That way you always get the perfect shot which is impossible with a conventional camera.

 

Dear Thomas,

 

Joe Rosenthal seemed to do quite well with a conventional camera. Seems the 35mm motion film shot at 24 fps at the same time by Bill Genaust didn't quite capture the impossible perfect moment.

 

--Fran

[Chris Gloag]

KW... Have you been tracing my memorabilia towards you? :D

 

 

It seems like english is not the first language of a few others as it really your chauvinism makes sense. But you can easily translate to your own tongue from my own native, given the fact I believe it's not hard for you to become a fluent polyglot:

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/chauvinistic

 

1. Militant devotion to and glorification of one's country; fanatical patriotism.

2. Prejudiced belief in the superiority of one's own gender, group, or kind.

 

If on the first, you have my credits that you're out from there (am I wrong? :huh: ), it just remains the second one.

 

totally yours,

KW BS Glaneur

Chauvinism is a sad thing.

[Max Jacoby]

Dear Thomas,

 

Joe Rosenthal seemed to do quite well with a conventional camera. Seems the 35mm motion film shot at 24 fps at the same time by Bill Genaust didn't quite capture the impossible perfect moment.

 

--Fran

I always thought that shot was a recreation?

[Francis Kuhn]

I always thought that shot was a recreation?

 

Hi Max,

 

This was the second flag raising. The first flag raised was taken by a Marine Corps battalion commander as a souvenir and replaced with the one in the photo, which was larger.

 

-Fran

[Stephen Williams]

Just my opinion, but the original Scarlet concept would have been a better marketing choice if RED wanted to keep the early adopters happy.

 

Hi Fran,

 

Jim has stated that he intends to make money with Red, having sold around $100 million of equipment in 15 months, the only way he can repeat that IMO is to bring out a more revolunary camera than he did last time. Computer manufactures have been doing the same for years, hardly surprising at all.

 

Stephen

[Thomas James]

I am assuming that the so called Red DSLR killer will have a super burst mode that will record 100 photographs in one second with the push of the shutter button. What this means is the the Red will start taking photographs even before the shutter button is fully depressed. And about all these famous photographers all I have to say is that I am a bad photographer so I have to resort to cheating to get world class results.

[Francis Kuhn]

Hi Fran,

 

Jim has stated that he intends to make money with Red, having sold around $100 million of equipment in 15 months, the only way he can repeat that IMO is to bring out a more revolunary camera than he did last time. Computer manufactures have been doing the same for years, hardly surprising at all.

 

Stephen

 

 

Hi Stephen,

 

I agree. I mean, once the first 5000 professional cinema cameras go out the door and the demand tapers off, you've got to build something to bring in new customers. Otherwise you close up shop except for the RED ONE repair/maintenence department. How many ARRI 435s were ever built? My Aaton A-Minima has a serial number in the high 200s. Just a guess, but IMO RED, with the great sensor technology they've worked to develop, probably intended to get into the stills market from the beginning. That's where the money is.

 

My guess is that companies like Canon, Nikon and the rest have a pretty good idea what stills and video cameras will look like 50 years from now. They likely have much of that technology waiting in the wings ready to go, but they release it slowly, not necessarily because they want to deprive customers of better cameras (a popular rant on REDuser), but because they risk alienating customers who've just invested in the latest offering. It's basic marketing IMO. Just look at the recent iPhone debacle, how people screamed when Apple reduced the price so quickly.

 

There's probably a good reason the big boys aren't on forums talking about what they're thinking of releasing next year.

 

-Fran

 

EDIT: BTW, if you want to read an absolutely fascinating book on marketing and advertising, I'd highly recommend Where the Suckers Moon by Randall Rothenberg

 

If anyone wants to see how a great product (Subaru), with the help of one of the world's greatest advertising agencies (Weiden + Kennedy), can utterly crash and burn, this is the book for you! Will definitely give you a different perspective on the problems all companies face when marketing and product development clash. And Joe Pytka even makes a cameo!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Where-Suckers-Moon-A...8527&sr=8-1

[Stephen Williams]

It's basic marketing IMO. Just look at the recent iPhone debacle, how people screamed when Apple reduced the price so quickly.

 

Hi,

 

I would not be surprised to see Refurbished Reds (unused in a box) 90 day waranty $9999 and no trade in allowance.

 

Stephen

[Francis Kuhn]

Hi,

 

I would not be surprised to see Refurbished Reds (unused in a box) 90 day waranty $9999 and no trade in allowance.

 

Stephen

 

 

Stephen,

 

IMO Canon and Nikon did more damage for less money by releasing their latest prosumer, video-shooting DSLRs than they could have ever done by releasing a direct competitor to RED ONE.

 

I think it not only made it difficult for RED to enter that market, it seems to have simultaneously forced upgrading Scarlet to the point where RED themselves are the ones that, rightly or wrongly, alienating some of their own RED ONE early adopter customer base.

 

I think the established still camera companies have very little interest in capturing a market that with sales potential of maybe 10,000 units. I would imagine they are going to be much more aggressive when other companies start crossing into their stills turf.

 

-Fran

[Stephen Williams]

Stephen,

 

IMO Canon and Nikon did more damage for less money by releasing their latest prosumer, video-shooting DSLRs than they could have ever done by releasing a direct competitor to RED ONE.

 

-Fran

 

Hi Fran,

 

Absolutely, I think RED announcing a DSLR killer was a little bit strange, I don't see anything that would make me throw away my D300 yet.

 

Stephen

[Francis Kuhn]

Hi Fran,

 

Absolutely, I think RED announcing a DSLR killer was a little bit strange, I don't see anything that would make me throw away my D300 yet.

 

Stephen

 

Stephen,

 

And, is it just me, or does anyone else see the strange irony of all the confused RED ONE owners now having to defend their cameras' substantial capabilities (if only to themselves) in much the way film camera owners have had to with the advent of RED.

 

IMO, the RED ONE is no more dead than your Mitchell.

 

 

 

-Fran

[Stephen Williams]

IMO, the RED ONE is no more dead than your Mitchell.

 

-Fran

 

Hi,

 

Bought it from David Stump for $3500, 120 fps full resoloution & an optical viewfinder. Not sure when a digital camera will exceed the specs of a camera designed 90 years ago.

 

Stephen

[Francis Kuhn]

Hi,

 

Bought it from David Stump for $3500, 120 fps full resoloution & an optical viewfinder. Not sure when a digital camera will exceed the specs of a camera designed 90 years ago.

 

Stephen

 

LOL, chances are that camera will still be working when we're both retired. :D

 

I have a great respect for the industrial designers of the last century. Take a look here, a couple of the most entertaining 15 second videos I've seen in a while. These camera movements were probably designed by some guy sitting at a drafting table with a pack of Pall Malls, a sliderule and a few good ideas. http://www.photosonics.com/rental-video-clips_equipment.htm

 

-Fran

[Thomas James]

Because we are in a recession we may see radical price drops in the Red One where a brand new unit is half the original MSRP.