Is it S...L...O...W... out there, work-wise?

[Brian Dzyak]

Brian, I think Richard's right. You just missed an excellent tongue-in-cheek joke.

 

Lol. That is quite funny, and points fun at all the "serious" threads of this nature on internet job postings.

 

 

What? Oh no no no.. I got it alright. :) No worries there.

[Satsuki Murashige]

I'm busier now than at this time last year, but then last year was my first full year of working professionally so that's not saying much.

 

BTW, I hear HBO has green-lit 10 pilots, including an adaptation of George R.R. Martin's "Sopranos in Middle Earth" fantasy epic "A Song of Ice and Fire": http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39063. They're planning to shoot in the UK, and I was wondering if any DPs out there have gotten any calls for it yet.

[Brad Grimmett]

On the bright side American department heads can work in Canada, Canadians can't just go to LA and work as a DOP. Not really fair is it?

 

R,

Sure they can. It happens all the time. I had a Canadian Steadicam Op undercut me on a job (shooting in LA) just a couple days ago.

[Phil Rhodes]

I suspect that if HBO are shooting here, they'll bring in HODs.

 

There are, of course, good DPs in the UK. Unfortunately there are a much larger number of people who have a very impressive resume, but if you actually look at the stuff, their entire technique can be summed up as a 2K over camera and meter for exposure.

 

I would not trust the UK to provide reasonable talent for a biggish show.

 

P

[Brad Grimmett]

With all due respect to David Mullen, Mr. Mullen has nothing to do with me! His career has absolutely zero affect on mine! I could very well make far more money than him this year.. or the next... and so could You!

 

(I) affect (my) career... as you do yours.

What does your company do? You're obviously not shooting features or TV, otherwise you wouldn't be working much, just like the majority of people right now. You can't compare apples and oranges. Sure, we could all go and start a company doing something else, or get a job in a different field, but that's not really the point of this discussion is it?

[David Mullen ASC]

Not everyone in the world can be an entrepreneur, some of us have to be employees. The solution to unemployment is not for everyone in the world to start their own businesses. Besides, I don't want to be a business owner. I want to work for narrative directors as a cinematographer, helping them to tell stories.

[David Rakoczy]

This is true David. At the same time, we have to be ready to change.. adapt. We can't just say this is what I do.. even if no one will hire you to do it. You can only make a stand for so long.. until the money runs out. Then, you have to change. I left narrative Feature and Episodic work in the early 2000s because there was/ is less and less work in these areas. More money is being spent on less Shows. So I changed.

[Rich Steel]

This is true David. At the same time, we have to be ready to change.. adapt. We can't just say this is what I do.. even if no one will hire you to do it. You can only make a stand for so long.. until the money runs out. Then, you have to change. I left narrative Feature and Episodic work in the early 2000s because there was/ is less and less work in these areas. More money is being spent on less Shows. So I changed.

 

Why can't we say "this is what I do" why should I change.

 

Most of the greatest artists who ever lived died pennyless. Real/true artists have never been creative or inspiring for THE MONEY, yes it helps but it's deeper than that, isn't it?

 

If anyone is saying they are way too busy just now I'd take that statement with a very large pinch of salt.

[David Rakoczy]

If it is just yourself and in the end you don't mind living on the street (for your 'art'), fine... but if you have a family, mouths to feed, education to save for and on and on.. well that is a different story.

[Rich Steel]

If it is just yourself and in the end you don't mind living on the street (for your 'art'), fine... but if you have a family, mouths to feed, education to save for and on and on.. well that is a different story.

 

Whatever. My point seems to have missed it's capitalist mark.

[David Mullen ASC]

I don't believe that we'll see the day where narrative cinema and TV will disappear -- people like stories. So there will always be work in that arena, the only issue is whether I personally can always get work. It's slow right now, but I have a two offers on the table for the late summer... it's just that I'd like to work before that. I'm not worried about earning enough for the year, I just don't like being idle for too long.

 

Sure, if you can't find work, you have to adapt. I just don't think every unemployed film industry person should just go out and start their own businesses. For one thing, I believe a pretty high percentage of private businesses fail, second, some need capital and credit is not flowing these days, and third, not everyone would be good at running their own business. So it drives me up a bit up the wall when people who are successful in business think that the solution for the world's unemployed is to behave just like them. That's not realistic.

 

And I'd rather do what I'm good at and what I enjoy doing before I give that up and do something else. But I certainly understand when someone has to take work they don't want in order to survive and take care of their family, probably the majority of people out there are in jobs that don't like. And there's always the chance that I'll be in the same boat. Truth is, even in this industry, it's still a business and a job and sometimes you take work that isn't always artistically satisfying. I don't think it is as simplistic as ART vs. MAKING A LIVING, there are many levels. Some find art in the simplest of tasks. Movies are a commercial art form more often than they are a fine art.

[Rich Steel]

And I'd rather do what I'm good at and what I enjoy doing before I give that up and do something else.

 

Here, Here

[David Rakoczy]

I don't believe that we'll see the day where narrative cinema and TV will disappear -- people like stories. So there will always be work in that arena, the only issue is whether I personally can always get work. It's slow right now, but I have a two offers on the table for the late summer... it's just that I'd like to work before that. I'm not worried about earning enough for the year, I just don't like being idle for too long.

 

Sure, if you can't find work, you have to adapt. I just don't think every unemployed film industry person should just go out and start their own businesses. For one thing, I believe a pretty high percentage of private businesses fail, second, some need capital and credit is not flowing these days, and third, not everyone would be good at running their own business. So it drives me up a bit up the wall when people who are successful in business think that the solution for the world's unemployed is to behave just like them. That's not realistic.

 

And I'd rather do what I'm good at and what I enjoy doing before I give that up and do something else. But I certainly understand when someone has to take work they don't want in order to survive and take care of their family, probably the majority of people out there are in jobs that don't like. And there's always the chance that I'll be in the same boat. Truth is, even in this industry, it's still a business and a job and sometimes you take work that isn't always artistically satisfying. I don't think it is as simplistic as ART vs. MAKING A LIVING, there are many levels. Some find art in the simplest of tasks. Movies are a commercial art form more often than they are a fine art.

 

David, I completely agree.

 

I switched from narrative to commercial work because I was no longer getting narrative gigs. I was a narrative snob and pooh poohed anything that wasn't narrative. Commercials and Music Videos, for me, were a sell-out. Now, producing commercials, I am not doing 'exactly' what I'd like to be doing but I get to roll Film, play with my equipment and crew.. direct, shoot and edit.. and that is very satisfying.

 

Like you say, you have a couple on the table for the end of summer but what happens if they disappear and nothing replaces them? Either you have saved and been a great steward of what you have earned in the past, don't have a family.. or have a spouse who supports your 'artistic' life.

 

My point is be ready to make the necessary adjustments.. to survive... just like we all can't be entrepreneurs.. we all can't earn a living doing 'exactly' as we want... and that is not to say that someday things could change... as change is something we can count on.

[Tenolian Bell]

I've never seen anyone pooh pooh music videos or commercials. Especially if its a music video for a top music artist or a national commercial for a top brand.

 

I suppose its true few are thrilled about doing low budget music videos for unknown musicians or informercials selling some wacky gizmo.

 

I switched from narrative to commercial work because I was no longer getting narrative gigs. I was a narrative snob and pooh poohed anything that wasn't narrative. Commercials and Music Videos, for me, were a sell-out.

[Guest]

Most of the greatest artists who ever lived died pennyless. Real/true artists have never been creative or inspiring for THE MONEY

 

Well painting a picture, writing a book, or composing a symphony, can be done by an individual with rudimentary tools, i.e. canvas, brush, paper, quill pen. All of these things have been available very cheaply for hundreds of years.

 

Making a movie on the other hand is a totally different ballgame. Just buying the film stock alone can cost tens of thousands and you haven't done any thing else yet. So creating movies solely for "arts sake" would only be available to the super rich.

 

In Canada TeleFilm pours millions of tax payer dollars into movies that very few if any will ever see, under the guise that they are creating "art." The point is that it takes government funds to make films like this, very few investors would want to flush their money away on the type of movies TeleFilm Canada funds.

 

I suppose that's fine in a few cases, I doubt any ballets or symphonies would survive in any city without some government support.

 

The general public would much prefer to see stuff blowing up on screen or a WWF match vs the ballet or a recent Canadian movie about an Eskimo trying to survive in a Quebec mental institution.

 

R,

[David Mullen ASC]

Here in Los Angeles, it can be harder to get into the commercial world than the narrative world... I've seen some DP's start to get commercial offers after they were nominated for an Oscar. These are all separate industries with their own challenges to getting work, I don't think of commercials as an easy "fallback" if I can't get features and TV work!

 

I've seen cinematographers struggle to find work in all sort of fields -- it can be just as challenging to make a living shooting industrials or weddings. Just because you, David, found it easier to make a go of it outside of narrative work doesn't mean I'd be as good as you are at it.

 

Anyway, my vague fallback plan is to teach cinematography someday if all else fails, though that's not an easy job to get either. But I figure that the more I can build a career in the film industry, the more valuable I would be to a film school -- up until the point they think I'm too old to teach or be up-to-date on production technique...

 

But right now, it's just a question of weathering through the slow times in the industry, and this is one of them. It has always bounced back, then shrunk again, then bounced back again. After the SAG slowdown in the summer of 2001, there was 9/11, the stock market tumble, so there was hardly any work in the second half of the year, which is when I went to Russia to shoot that small HD feature that starred Tim Blake Nelson and Emily Mortimer. Only a 3-week shoot and tiny budget, but it was exciting. And the next spring, I shot "Northfork", got my hours for joining the union, right when the industry picked up again. So a lot of this is timing.

[David Rakoczy]

Real/true artists have never been creative or inspiring for THE MONEY, yes it helps but it's deeper than that, isn't it?

 

I guess under (your) definition I am not a Real/true Artist...

 

That's ok.. I know what I am. I am a guy raising a family who likes to direct, shoot and edit Film...oh ya.. and keep gas in his boat so he can keep offshore fishing! At least I haven't given in to the onslaught of 1s and 0s and have stuck with Film... I am comfortable with that B)

 

 

btw.. David, I am very familiar with LA.. I lived there 22 years and left 7 years ago.... my brother still has a Club on Ventura Blvd. I wish you well and hope you get those two Shows.. or even better Shows!... and a commercial next week!

[Guest]

At least I haven't given in to the onslaught of 1s and 0s and have stuck with Film... I am comfortable with that B)

 

Amen brother!! Vive Le Film!!!

 

R,

 

PS: My comments should in no way be construed as limiting my need to shoot video on a future project if needed. :lol:

[K Borowski]

You're definitely not a true artist David. Not for what you do, but for not starving and struggling in solitude.

 

True artists don't resort to the weaknesses of human interpersonal relationships; suffering generates artistic passion! ;)

[David Rakoczy]

PS: My comments should in no way be construed as limiting my need to shoot video on a future project if needed. :lol:

 

That is a GREAT clause.. I should have added that as well... boat fuel COSTS!

[David Rakoczy]

; suffering generates artistic passion! ;)

 

 

Good idea.. I'll spend the night with Johnny Walker and see what happens :blink:

[David Mullen ASC]

You're definitely not a true artist David. Not for what you do, but for not starving and struggling in solitude.

 

True artists don't resort to the weaknesses of human interpersonal relationships; suffering generates artistic passion! ;)

 

As Richard pointed out, filmmaking is EXPENSIVE. Therefore it generally has to work within a commercial structure unless it is government funded or you are independently wealthy (or make really tiny projects). Therefore it's hard to be a "pure" artist when it takes thousands, tens of thousands, of dollars just to create your art.

 

On the other hand, obviously filmmaking is an art form, just one with dirty hands from all that grubbing for money...

 

I like cinematography because it has so many aspects to, from interpersonal relationships, crew management, collaborating with the director and other artistic department heads... to its technical challenges, storytelling challenges, working with time and money constraints, etc. Many parts of your brain are engaged.

 

But let's also admit that I am an employee of a production and producer, who pays me a salary. And I don't necessarily mind that, I'm not all that interested in the business aspects of the industry, I just want a paycheck for the work I do. I probably would have been happy in the 1940's working under a long-term contract for a studio and going to work every day. I'm not a business man, not an entrepreneur.

[David Rakoczy]

It is David. Cinematography/ Motion Picture Production is really something! You either love it or leave it... well, I have been with 'her' for 26 years and have no plans for leaving. We are (all) truly blessed to do what we do!

[Guest]

I probably would have been happy in the 1940's working under a long-term contract for a studio and going to work every day. I'm not a business man, not an entrepreneur.

 

I would agree with you on the first part, what a great "day job" that would have been. Too bad those days are long gone.

 

I am finding though that if you want to sit specifically in the directors chair then it is necessary to be half business man and half creative person. The directors chair is simply too hard fought over to get a chance to sit there without bringing some thing substantial to the table. i.e. distribution contracts or arranging for a big chunk of the financing. It's pretty tough for the financiers to fire you if you arrange 1/3 of the movies financing.

 

I am finding this with my current projects personally, and of course many of the top directors in Hollywood have used similar techniques to ensure that they got and held the directors chair.

 

There are simply too many guys out there that want the job, you need some thing that makes you unique, this is where the business side rears its ugly head.

 

I certainly would not expect a DOP to bring any thing to the table other than their great skill at shooting movies. So an intimate knowledge of film financing would not be required for a DOP.

 

R,

[K Borowski]

Good idea.. I'll spend the night with Johnny Walker and see what happens :blink:

 

Nah, if you want to redeem yourself in front of your peers for not being an artist (pronounced ar-TEEST), at the very least, cut off an ear!