Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted November 30, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted November 30, 2009 Words fail me: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8384972.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Michael Lehnert Posted November 30, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted November 30, 2009 Or rather: The State fails me. (which should have a smiley attached, but this is actually not funny at all) With this subset of legislation on for over a year, I am surprised to see this coming to a wider attention/police&photographer bust-up only now. It's outrageous and unfortunately adds another point to an imaginary list why to leave the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sheehy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Words fail me: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8384972.stm Obviously the coppers didn't do their homework: http://www.met.police.uk/about/photography.htm It's frustrating, because even if the Police are mistaken, you are rather foolish to argue with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 The police talked to me whilst I was doing a stock footage shoot in Piccadilly a few years back. They asked if I had a permit, I showed them a print out from the film London home page that said photographers with just one camera and a tri-pod didn't need permits. They read that and went away. For the rest of the week I set up the 35mm gear in front of all of London's most famous landmarks, the police walked past me on several occasions and never said a word. Why didn't this BBC guy just show his press credentials? Some one could make a funny YouTUBE video out of this....a huge Hollywood style film shoot is going on with A-List actors, crew of hundreds, etc. The police show up and shut it down because they think it's a terrorist plot. R, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul Rodgar Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 London also boasts one of the highest concentrations of CCTV cameras in the world. It seems old George Orwell was not so wrong after all. http://londonsentinels.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dzyak Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 In the USA, it's the Republican John Ashcroft crowd who pushed this "war without end" against "terrorism" for no other reason than to create profits for their buddies in KBR and Halliburton. It's basically a global game of whack-a-mole. There is no "winning" against the occasional criminal who pops out with a gun or bomb. They're waging a "war" against those who fight against their Milton Friedman tactics which enrich a scant few and drive the majority of the world's population into poverty. The only way to "Fight" against "terrorism" is through education, which, happens to cost far less than even one missile. But then, if we started doing that, some influential people wouldn't be making as much money as they do now. So, while these criminals play their game of whack-a-mole, regular people out there (like us) will have to put up with the nonsense where we're all considered guilty until proven innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted November 30, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted November 30, 2009 Why didn't this BBC guy just show his press credentials? Hi Richard, They changed the law recently, so they can be a big pain if they want too! S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dzyak Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Why didn't this BBC guy just show his press credentials? Good question, but that isn't a cure-all either. I don't have press credentials because I don't work for the press. But I still have need to shoot in public places for a variety of uses that have nothing at all to do with "news." I can't count the number of times I've been asked for "credentials" as it a little card with my picture on it somehow proves that I'm "okay" and not a terrorist casing out a location. It's a ridiculous concept and entirely false security. "They" feel better because they've covered their own asses by asking the questions (either on location or at the airport when I show up with equipment) and they all make money by having a job that involves harassing the innocent public. Meanwhile, the real "terrorists" are laughing because they see how much they've thrown a wrench into societies worldwide. They did their damage already. Now "we're" finishing their job by bankrupting our economies and destroying our freedoms in this nonsensical game of whack-a-mole. Silliness. It might be funny if people like you and me weren't the ones caught in the middle of this giant game they're playing. I think I'm gonna go print me up a Press Credential this afternoon. Evidently, it's a free pass to wherever I want to go..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I think I'm gonna go print me up a Press Credential this afternoon. Evidently, it's a free pass to wherever I want to go..... Make sure you use a Canadian TV network, do you think they'll check that or question that you work for The Poutine Network Of Montreal. The most fun I had shooting run and gun with no permits was in Miami, FL. I asked the cab driver where I could get a good shot of the cruise ships so he took me to a spot he knew. It was across the water from them so I had water in the foreground, very nice. I did notice the security in black high speed boats going up and down the length of the ships. I set up my gear and started to roll, after about two minutes I was spotted by the patrol boats and they gunned their engines toward me. Two of them where speeding toward me and the cab driver was freaking out. Let's Go! Let's Go! he was shouting. I kept shooting then calmly packed up my gear and got into the cab. The cab driver sped off in a panic, geez that was fun. Next I was shooting at a park and a lady that spoke no English at all, came by wearing a uniform and driving a golf cart. She was yelling at me and waggling her finger. I had to get a valet from the local restaurant to translate for me. She informed me that I needed a permit to film, I pointed out to her the guy with the video camera, did he also need a permit? Apparently he didn't because he was just a tourist where as I was some thing different. So I waited for her to go to the other side of the park and then kept filming. I laugh at all the signs all over Central Park in NYC that prohibit taking pictures for commercial purposes. Are they freaking serious? Good luck enforcing that one NYC! Some NYC parks cops did run me out of a park once where I wanted to set up and shoot the harbour. So I left and went 10 ft from the entrance to the park. That way they could see me in full view but they couldn't touch me. I could see the ticked off looks on their faces. I have a hundred of the these stories, I have been hasseled all over the globe, guess what.....the local authorities have never once stopped me from getting a shot ;) R, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted December 1, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted December 1, 2009 There is no doubt that terrorism is real. They've blown up buses in London, trains in Madrid, and rid New York of its two ugliest buildings. Governments don't have a solution that works, so they do things that don't work, like confronting hapless harmless photographers. Richard's story shows that if you want to get the security boats out of your way for a cruise ship attack, all you have to do is set up a camera on the other side of the harbor. -- J.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted December 1, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted December 1, 2009 I was stopped and nearly arrested for questioning for photographing a public works compound in Hershey, PA. I was on public property, outside the fences, under a darkcloth attached to a 150 year old 6-1/2"x8-1/2" full plate camera. If I looked like a terrorist, I want to commend terrorists on their taste in classic photographic equipment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 My favorite is not being allowed on an airplane with half a small bottle of Evian but in front of me were 3 Sikhs about to board wearing those long ceremonial knives they wear. When I asked the flight attendant about it she said, "That's different, it's part of their religion". Now that's what I call a satisfactory logical response! The idea of not being allowed to film in any mundane place because of fear of "espionage" is silly when the same or equivalent images are already freely available on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lary Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 You think photographers have it hard? Try being a clown. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sad_clo...x02rQsphjrtO2cO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted December 2, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted December 2, 2009 You think photographers have it hard? Try being a clown. You think clowns have it hard? Try being a cop. They have to make instant decisions on whether or not something might be a bomb. They tend to err on the side of caution, so it's best not to walk around wearing that battery belt if you don't absolutely have to. -- J.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Holland Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 John , you cant have been in London for a while !! The police and community support officers {they are cheap cops with no powers ] dont know the law !! this country is finished !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Michael Lehnert Posted December 2, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted December 2, 2009 John , you cant have been in London for a while !! The police and community support officers {they are cheap cops with no powers ] dont know the law !! this country is finished !! It's true that I found out myself that I was better informed about what can legally be done or not than those officers who stopped me and intended to tell me off/reprimand me/demand to see permissions. It's difficult to have trust in the police if you know - at least in that situation - their job better than they do. Respect for their role in the state is something different, of course. As regards "the state" and its future, this situation of ignorant enforcers isn't cool. But John S, take John H's statement lightheartedly: there is a bit of a doomsday mood in Britain generally. The situation in Germany is far worse and increasingly repressive. -Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted December 3, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted December 3, 2009 John , you cant have been in London for a while !! You're right. Now that I think of it, not since 1962. The police here in LA are actually often quite well educated. They have BA's and MA's in uniform. Even so, I'd still be careful about things like battery belts. -- J.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lary Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 You think clowns have it hard? Try being a cop. How hard can it be to run up behind a clown and knock him off his bicycle? Seriously, though, cops need to be able to use logic and apply common sense within the context of the situation. If they can't handle that, they should not be entrusted with firearms and given permission to take physical control of other humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted December 3, 2009 Author Premium Member Share Posted December 3, 2009 I don't expect the police to know every single little detail of the law. It's practically impossible for them to do so and by and large they don't need to. The problem is that they tend to assume they do. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Holland Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I dont expect them to know every know detail of the law !! and they arnt required to ! But this one they should know about !! as they go about the streets treating anyone with a camera as maybe terrorist !! its a joke !!! If i was robbed or mugged they may or not turn up a few days later !! Its just lazy !! and easy for them !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Alderslade Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I dont expect them to know every know detail of the law !! and they arnt required to ! But this one they should know about !! as they go about the streets treating anyone with a camera as maybe terrorist !! its a joke !!! If i was robbed or mugged they may or not turn up a few days later !! Its just lazy !! and easy for them !! I've been cautioned for filming the Sherlock Holmes statue on a Super 8 camera, a loudspeaker announcement from nearby Baker Street tube station told me to 'not move' and a guy came out of the Station and questioned what I was doing and told me to move along. I'm sure they wouldn't have cared had it not been for the tripod - obviously terrorists are using tripods now for more professional looking reconnaissance videos, Al Kaidia will embrace steadicam next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted December 7, 2009 Premium Member Share Posted December 7, 2009 obviously terrorists are using tripods now for more professional looking reconnaissance videos, Al Kaidia will embrace steadicam next! Soon as you slack off on the recce films you're the laughing stock of the subversive world and then it's all work, work, work to really and truly be feared again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted December 7, 2009 Author Premium Member Share Posted December 7, 2009 Baker Street tube station told me to 'not move' and a guy came out of the Station and questioned what I was doing and told me to move along. As far as I can see there are only two decisions to make here: 1) Do I hang around so as to be able to shout at the person who arrives, or depart, to indicate my disdain for being spoken to by a tube station, and 2) How long for, and how loud, do I shout? P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Michael Lehnert Posted January 12, 2010 Premium Member Share Posted January 12, 2010 So much for the topic at hand... Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 deemed illegal: http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=872546 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Orwell Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 dont know the law !! this country is finished !! Correct on both counts. There is hope though. It's so far removed from the accepted on the cusp of nanotechnological developments and their intended misuses that there ain't much time left however I'm afraid. And sorry to drag an old topic up but I guess it's always relevant. Exactly right it's the training, because there isn't much of it. Or it’s designed so that the primary objective is revenue collecting (individual police forces are registered companies after all) and anything left over is simply repeating or . There are avenues that anyone who is going to be using a camera outdoors should pursue as a matter of course. There is a lot of reading involved and should confrontation arise it requires bravery. What the officer, if indeed he/she is even half clued-up, is going to throw at you is an Act and the reference points within it, which is ultimately how you'll beat them. You need to understand the differences between Common Law and Statutes and Acts and how to Lawfully remove your consent*. If you're prepared to put the work in prior and be armed mentally then getting picked-on should have you rubbing your hands together. You may have seen Bob Patefields encounter : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKlnm1-976g Being quite seasoned when I watched this video admittedly I cringed, but he actually said just enough of the right things to turn the game around afterwards and most importantly, he didn't turn his camera off. I spoke with Bob around 3 months ago and he subsequently got a compensatory payout as a result of what happened here : http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj51/TacTZilla/Arrest-Telegraph-Follow-Up-2011.jpg This is a climate that has been crafted in minute detail, and it works. So they continue to act accordingly and they're doing it right now in 2012. I'd be getting into really deep territory with regards MI6, the CIA and their operatives which I can't really be bothered to do, suffice to say one of the main problems that the public face, is shaking off this subconscious impression that the super secret agent good guys look like Sean Connery or Roger Moore, and the dastardly bad guys look like the bad guy in True Lies. Like I say the climate has been being crafted for decades. The most important thing though is to never be afraid to get the camera out, in fact get it out in public even more. Do the reading, and refuse to cooperate. If it turns sour, the public is going to be on your side. * - Google is your best friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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