Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Hi All, So a few weeks back I applied for this DP job listed on the Mandy.com site. Basically on a whim, then I forgot about the position. So today I get this e-mail back. People considering cinematography as a career should read this e-mail to get a good understanding of what they'll be up against. The competition is more fierce than ever, and there can only be one DP on a shoot. My dear fellow filmmaker, I have received your application for my inquiry for a dp. I should immediately inform you that more than 200 cinematographers from all around the world answered my call, and I am considering all of the applicants and it takes a lot of time (I can not see more than 25 reels a week). If you haven't sent a hard copy of your reel to my address already, please do it so as soon as possible. (DVD, VHS- NTSC or Pal both welcome, no secam or mesacam please). And please dont forget to include referances with tel numbers. Cordially yours Shelly Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim van der Linden Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 It's interesting that you posted that, and certainly puts things in perspective. It also emphasizes the importance of a strong reel, I wouldn't want to think about having to put my mediocre reel against 200 other LA-based DPs (I'm sure yours is far more impressive than mine, not to mention probably 75% of the others). Just to add to the comment, I had the good fortune of being picked to shoot a feature late last year. I didn't have an edited reel at the time so I submitted the trailer from another feature I had shot and was picked on the basis of that. The director later told me that I was the pick of around 40 submissions, and while that's nothing compared to your 200, I was quite surprised at the amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 That also doesn't take into account the large number of jobs that never even get listed because; A. The director thinks he's a DP. B. The director lets his buddy do it because he's good with Uncle Willy's Hi-8. I've heard and seen a number of paying jobs go down like that. Though not good paying jobs it'll still pay your rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Belics Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Yes, you really have to wonder how many of those 200 were just kids, lids and space cadets wanting to become famous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riku Naskali Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 (edited) Please don't post anything this depressing ;) I really hope we are talking about a paying job at least. Edited February 16, 2005 by Riku Naskali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Oh it's a paying job all right. Not huge, but paying. Depressing? There's no point hiding from reality. If you're not already an established DP, having a second career option you can live with is not a bad idea. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeSelinsky Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I should immediately inform you that more than 200cinematographers from all around the world answered my call, and I am considering all of the applicants and it takes a lot of time (I can not see more than 25 reels a week). If you haven't sent a hard copy of your reel to my address already, please do it so as soon as possible. (DVD, VHS- NTSC or Pal both welcome, no secam or mesacam please). And please dont forget to include referances with tel numbers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I had hundreds and hundreds of headshots come in for my NYU student film, with no pay. I had well over a thousand come in when I put out a casting notice for a 35mm feature film. I don't know how good 180 of the 200 reels that this person gets are, probably not very good. Apparently this person hasn't found their choice yet so you still have a chance - they want to get your reel and they've bothered to personally answer you. Then again, there's nothing to guarantee this person actually got 200 reels either. This could simply be a way of saying "People really want to work on this project - it's worth the trouble" Also, I just wanted to note that it's not exactly professional to address you as "Dear fellow filmmaker" (unless you introduced yourself as a filmmaker). Yes, the competition out there is fierce alright, but I don't know if this particular situation is such a good meter of that. - G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted February 16, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted February 16, 2005 Hi, The described situation sounds about normal to me. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim van der Linden Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I really hope we are talking about a paying job at least. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In my instance the pay was deferred, and it said that in the job description Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Michael Nash Posted February 17, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted February 17, 2005 Hi, The described situation sounds about normal to me. Phil <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, this is what you get with an "open call" for submissions. The fact that he got a follow-up email requesting a reel is what surprises me! Submissions without reels are usually tossed in this situation. But not all DP positions are filled via open calls like this. Being a DP is kind of like being an actor in terms of competition; the odds are stacked against you. Think about it: for any given film there may be six to ten characters to cast, 2-4 each grips and electricians, two AC's, but only ONE DP is selected for a project. Just goes to show you the importance of NETWORKING as means to finding work. I'd say 90% of film industry jobs are filled by people who the hirer knows and feels comfortable with, or at least on the recommendation of someone who the hirer knows or feels comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Yup it's tough out there but persistence is the key. In most film schools 95% of the student population is either a director or a DP. Some realize what these two roles involve and some continue to live in a haze. The so called democratization brought on by the digital age has enabled many to be more autonomous and creative but has also glutted the marketplace. IMHO, three or four student films shot on a PD150 or similar do not make a director or a DP but that of course depends where you place the bar. The same phenomena is happening in the music business where having the equivalent of a 48 track recording studio with all the bells and whistles in your bedroom is now possible. Record companies do not have the time or personnel to listen to all the demos and even finished albums that they receive everyday. The most important thing is to grow as a person and as a DP. It means a lot of show reels sent out for nothing. Remember that a 1% return on direct mail marketing is considered successful these days. That's 1 job obtained out of 100 unsolicited show reels sent out is a good score. How many cd-roms do art galleries receive of artists works? I try not to let the state of things depress me because depression takes time and energy from the accomplishment of my goals. This business is a real example of survival of the fittest and anything can happen at virtually any time. If you are in this business to make money-get out now. If you are in this business to make films-make films by any means necessary. The consumer oriented formatting of the general public has naturally spilt over to the visual domain. "You can not do this or that without this or that gadget, software, etc." mentality does a lot of peoples heads in. Try not to be shepherded into this mindset. Be inventive. Be observant. A blind DP is not going to get hired. You are there to see. Seeing is more than looking. NASA spent 1 million dollars to develop the space pen (you know the one that apparently writes when you're upside down in zero gravity,etc.). Ha, ha, the Russian cosmonauts used pencils. THINK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timHealy Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I wouldn't worry about it e mails such as these. Why of course the internet is loaded with numbskulls, I wouldn't let it second guess any desire to shoot and continue with your career. But I would like to share a Mandy story. Like the original writer I took a shot at awnsering a Mandy ad for a shooter and e mailed the filmmaker with an on line reel and the promise to send a DVD if he so desired. My reel has all 35mm and 16mm work on it. I recieved an e mail that said I really he liked my reel and he asked what kind of cameras I used. I replied I am most comfortable with an Arri 535's, Arri SR's and Arri 16 BL and S, and Bolex's. He then replied "but have you ever used a camcorder?" It was really difficult not to reply to that statement. So to completely agree with Dan, DV has democratized the film business and there are many people out there who consider themselves filmmakers. But it also means there is a lot more junk out there. Some will learn the craft through DV, and but I imagine most will keep making garbage. my 2 cents.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Spear Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 "NASA spent 1 million dollars to develop the space pen (you know the one that apparently writes when you're upside down in zero gravity,etc.). Ha, ha, the Russian cosmonauts used pencils. THINK!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Better is the enemy of good enough" -old Russian saying (...but pencils can break) www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/s/spacepen.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Oh my garsh! You're going to start an all out war with this one.... "DV has democratized the film business and there are many people out there who consider themselves filmmakers. But it also means there is a lot more junk out there. Some will learn the craft through DV, and but I imagine most will keep making garbage." Frank PS: I'm pretty sure Open Water was shot on DV. Hey at least the guy got a film in to theatrical distribution. One and counting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 DV has democratized the film business and there are many people out there who consider themselves filmmakers. But it also means there is a lot more junk out there. Some will learn the craft through DV, and but I imagine most will keep making garbage. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is alot of garbage shot on film too... And there's alot of garbage shot on film by professionals, backed by big studios It's all entertainment... So let's not get too serious--we're not doctors saving lives We're not leathernecks fighting a NAZI regime We're not even farmers making food for people... We're just entertaining public...& if they like it we did a good job--simple ain't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Not farmers? Obviously you've never tasted film, video tape, or a DVD. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Spear Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 "It's all entertainment... So let's not get too serious--we're not doctors saving lives We're not leathernecks fighting a NAZI regime We're not even farmers making food for people... We're just entertaining public...& if they like it we did a good job--simple ain't it" I don't know Rik... a projected image can be pretty influential and sometimes even have devastating consequences... (Leni Riefenstahl comes to mind....) sometimes it seems like you can make a movie about pretty much ANYTHING you want to, then market it as "art". as a filmmaker, don't you feel you're doing more than just 'entertaining the public'? (why should anyone listen if you have nothing to say?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Russell Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Whoever said shooting or directing a student film doesnt make you a dp or director is absolutely right. But if you make opportunities for yourself, produce your own shorts, and team up with a good DP, and if you're smart, well then there is nothing stopping you from creating a great reel and sending it out and getting work as a director or dp. Let's not second guess. I think that people get the gist here, but it doesn't matter where you went to school.. it only matters what's on the reel. The misconception in film school is that when you graduate, a diploma will get your work, and what the fail to realize is that you need to work for free for years in order to build your reel, team with a good director or dp, and get a script, find money for it and forget about what everyone else says. jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 sometimes it seems like you can make a movie about pretty much ANYTHING you want to, then market it as "art". as a filmmaker, don't you feel you're doing more than just 'entertaining the public'? (why should anyone listen if you have nothing to say?) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We should seriously take this conversation to another thread I fear I'm driving us into a whole 'nother lane---with that said, my apologies :) Everybody's got something to say--just talk to people... You don't need to make a movie to say something--write a book Or become a preacher, activist, politician, teacher, philosopher, or parent, etc... As filmmakers we're just trying to tell stories... Often movies that are too ambitious trying to save the world fail Because people don't want to be preached to--that's what church is for Usually people just want to enjoy themselves for a few hours... And hence that's what we should provide...make 'em laugh and they'll love you... Personally I became a filmmaker to make movies to entertain myself... That didn't go real far...& besides the public doesn't always love self-indugance (Unless you're Kevin Smith or Quentin Tarantino) Anyways I quickly wound up making movies for other people... So really my job is to help someone else say something to the world Personally I find that I enjoy working On projects that are geared more towards entertaining than preaching And these usually do better with the public... I went to filmschool with a bunch of kids who all wanted to change the world They made these very strange self-concious films Influenced by European New Wave & watched the IFC & Sundance channel alot... Anyways most of them are still reading Nietzsche... Working as waiters, temps, and bartenders...enlightening the world Trust any old showbiz guy they'll tell you-- razzle dazzle 'em and they'll make you a star ;) Don't lie to yourself--it's all about entertainment (and that's not too bad) B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Spear Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 "As filmmakers we're just trying to tell stories... Often movies that are too ambitious trying to save the world fail Because people don't want to be preached to--that's what church is for Usually people just want to enjoy themselves for a few hours... And hence that's what we should provide..." Good point Rik. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Salzmann Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 If that's true than why do so many American "entertainment" films have these really syrupy, hokey, melodramatic shots in them that don't serve the story while clearly preaching or more correctly cramming patriotism down our throats? I think of the slo-mo American flag business in "Saving Private Ryan" for example. That was so unecessary. Sometimes a good film can be more a description or portrait than a narrative driven piece. I think of John Cassavettes' "Husbands" as a clear example of a film that is not about narrative or technical razzle dazzle. It is about pure emotion. I don't know what you mean by films "that try to save the world". I personally did not care for Fahrenheit 911 but it seemed Michael Moore has this preachy way of trying to save the world. That film didn't exactly fail at least in commercial terms. Lots of Bruce Willis sci-fi films seem to be about him saving the world and those don't seem to be failing. "I Robot" had will Smith saving the world in it's own condescendingly(IMHO) stereotypical fashion. There are many different kinds of stories. People enjoy themselves in different ways as well. Not everyone has to laugh to have a good time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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