ND ON WINDOWS

Ram Shani · March 3, 2005

hi

i am about to shoot short film which take place in office 14 floor in day time.

i want to se the outside so i have to go with ND on the windows.

what is the beast way to hold them flat that i dont have problems with light reflection??

can't put big lights :

1- no place

2- to hot

ram

Rik Andino · March 3, 2005

Well one trick to do is wet them down

Then squigy them onto the window & they should hold for while

In fact I've gotten them to stick for a whole day

You're other best option is scotch tape.

Good Luck

Kevin Zanit · March 3, 2005

I have used a spray bottle in the past. I would just try and get acrylic pieces if possible.

Kevin Zanit

David Frank · March 3, 2005

Not to get off subject or anything, but I saw a film the other day where they used ND on windows and it made the outside look very purplish-blue. Any idea why that happened and how to not have that happen?

-DAve

Phil Rhodes · March 3, 2005

Hi,

I guess they were using tungsten film, so the daylight outside looked blue. You can avoid this by using CTO (orange) gel on the windows - in fact, you can get combination CTO and ND for just exactly this sitaution.

Phil

David Frank · March 3, 2005

Hi,

I guess they were using tungsten film, so the daylight outside looked blue. You can avoid this by using CTO (orange) gel on the windows - in fact, you can get combination CTO and ND for just exactly this sitaution.

Phil

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Makes sense! Thanks.

Mark Hutto · March 3, 2005

I guess I'm a little confused about the purpose of CTO on the windows. Is the purpose just to correct the light itself that's coming in the window that would otherwise be casting blue on your subjects? ( where the window itself is not in the shot) Or does it allow you to include the window in your shot and everything outside be color balanced to your tungten stock as well? Or both? Is it the same as just putting an 85 on the lens and using HMIs inside?

Incidently, I did read an article in a recent ASC where the DP of "Be Cool" said something about not liking to shoot with ND's on the windows because of getting a reddish tint. I'll look it up and re-post.

Thanks,

Mark Hutto

Mark Hutto · March 3, 2005

Yes, I just check it was Richard Kimbal in the latest issue and he said "I don't like to use ND's on the windows because when you start putting them on pretty soon the films is picking up a lot of magenta from the gels and things can be photographed red. The material is suppose to be neutral but it's really not."

Is this an extreme case or a general thing to be concerned about?

Mark Hutto

Nate Yolles · March 3, 2005

I too have found that ND does have magenta in it.

David Mullen ASC · March 3, 2005

It's not a big problem -- if there's a tint, you could always add that color to your lights so that everything has that color and then time it out, but I've never had to do it. I think the problem is only with the really heavy ND's. I usually use ND.60 and then balance for that.

The problem with ND gels is that they are heavier when you look at them sideways than when you look at them directly.

However, sometimes you simply have no choice because it is not possible to light a room interior bright enough to balance. I was filming in a high-rise apartment in Philadelphia and we had ND.60 acrylics cut for each window held up with velcro tabs because I had to quickly remove them when the weather and light levels changed outside.

Lars.Erik · March 10, 2005

I shot at a studio on the 23rd floor last year. We were there for 10 weeks and used ND 0.6 on the windows. Water will only hold your filters for a couple of days, max. I would go for Mullen's version with the velcros. Sometimes you just need to take them down.

Personally I used water in combination with Scotch tape. Worked pretty good. Used tape in the corners. Most gels were fine for about a week. Then I had to quickly water them down again. One trick is to keep the room not too warm. Heat will dry up the water between the gels and the windows quicker.

For the reflection you can always add a scrim filter. It's a soft filter that will reduce your reflections. You can just put it over the ND's.

Greg White · March 10, 2005

I second what david said. The hard gels are really the best. However, they are expensive per sheet.

As for ND Gel, the problem is getting the gel to adhere to the window so as not to see it. .Any little rinckle or bubble will be visible.

Good luck!!!!!

Cheers,

Greg White

LA based cameraman

Phil Rhodes · March 10, 2005

Hi,

In the past, I've always tried to have something in front of the window - blinds are good - to avoid seeing the gel too much. On the other hand I'm often trying to keep the backgrounds plainish to avoid big video DOF confusion.

Phil

Jeremy Russell · March 10, 2005

David,

what AC's did you work with in philly on shadowboxer..

does dan sariano ring a bell

David Mullen ASC · March 11, 2005

David,

what AC's did you work with in philly on shadowboxer..

does dan sariano ring a bell

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I worked with Dave Taicher (operator), Michael Asa Leonard (1st AC), Leon Sanginitti (2nd AC), Dan Cook (Loader), plus Kate Butler and Jeff Baker as B-camera 1st AC's.

Dan Sariano worked on "The Woodsman" I believe, made by the same company in Philly the year before, but he didn't work on "Shadowboxer."