Philip Bloom on Red issues

[Guest]

I bought the Alexa. I'm certainly happy with the post work flow since I already own a 17" MacBook Pro with FCP on it.

 

Can't beat it in my book. Unless you shoot 35mm of course, which beats everything :D

 

R,

[Freya Black]

I bought the Alexa. I'm certainly happy with the post work flow since I already own a 17" MacBook Pro with FCP on it.

 

Can't beat it in my book. Unless you shoot 35mm of course, which beats everything :D

 

R,

 

Wow! Now thats an interesting turn of events!!

Whats motivating you. Are you planning some lower budget productions?

What do you hope to gain over shooting 35mm?

 

love

 

Freya

[Guest]

 

Whats motivating you. Are you planning some lower budget productions?

 

I have some wedding videos and home movies I want to shoot. Hopefully the Alexa will be ok for that?

 

Ok time to get serious, I was impressed with the Alexa's output, to me it was the most 35ish image I had seen from a digital system thus far. The reliability of the camera appeared to be perfect based on all the feedback I was getting from other people that had used the camera. It's a well built solid piece of pro gear, and Arri obviously knows how to build a cinema camera.

 

I read over Mr. Bloom's blog, his experience with Epic is similar to other first hand accounts I have received about the Epic. Primarily issues on set with the camera failing. I'm sure Epic produces a fine image, and I'm sure RED will iron out the reliability issues.

 

Arri has launched a digital cinema system that seems to be as flawless as one can get. I found that to be very impressive. In fact so much so I will most likely own a second package 4-5 mos from now, if not sooner.

 

R,

[Keith Walters]

I have some wedding videos and home movies I want to shoot. Hopefully the Alexa will be ok for that?

When you think about it though, could there be a market for ultra-high quality video at weddings? If some rich dude is OK ("happy" might be too strong a word :D) to spend $100,000 to $500,000 on his daughter's wedding, would he be prepared to shell out a bit extra for true 1920 x 1080 with a true film-like dynamic range?

 

I've recently been experimentally shooting 720p and editing it "on-site" on my laptop. I don't have a Blu-ray burner in my laptop but for short sequences I can burn AVCHD onto DVD blanks and it looks exactly the same as Blu-Ray. I also do the same project in DVD format for people who don't have a blu-ray player, or in case their Blu-Ray player doesn't support AVCHD, (but I haven't found one yet).

 

One Wedding photographer I know shoots the ceremony, and if there is enough time, he goes to the Reception venue and prints up souvenir booklets with wedding photos and guest's names on them. Imagine being able to project a cinema-quality replay of the wedding ceremony! (I know that's already being done to some extent, but not in particularly good quality at the moment).

 

I've also made full-HD AVCHD recordings, and they look indistinguishable from Blu-Ray to me.

 

I was thinking more of the Canon 1080p solution, but the Alexa would fit just as well at the start of the "pipeline", unlike something like Scarlet.

 

Ok time to get serious, I was impressed with the Alexa's output, to me it was the most 35ish image I had seen from a digital system thus far. The reliability of the camera appeared to be perfect based on all the feedback I was getting from other people that had used the camera. It's a well built solid piece of pro gear, and Arri obviously knows how to build a cinema camera.

 

I read over Mr. Bloom's blog, his experience with Epic is similar to other first hand accounts I have received about the Epic. Primarily issues on set with the camera failing. I'm sure Epic produces a fine image, and I'm sure RED will iron out the reliability issues.

 

Arri has launched a digital cinema system that seems to be as flawless as one can get. I found that to be very impressive. In fact so much so I will most likely own a second package 4-5 mos from now, if not sooner.

 

R,

I dare you to open an account on Reduser now :D

I must say, there is going to be an enormous number of Red Fanboys baffled as to why you didn't even feel the need to start a new thread to announce this! It's like those deranged people who deliberately choose to opt out if the IMDB.... :rolleyes:

[Freya Black]

Ok time to get serious,

 

Today you are full of surprises!!! ;)

 

I was impressed with the Alexa's output, to me it was the most 35ish image I had seen from a digital system thus far. The reliability of the camera appeared to be perfect based on all the feedback I was getting from other people that had used the camera. It's a well built solid piece of pro gear, and Arri obviously knows how to build a cinema camera.

R,

 

My question was less about it in relation to other digital cameras, but in relation to film!

You always talk as if you are a film die hard, and of course if you can make it work budget wise, film is actually a really easy way to add production value! You seemed to be coping with doing the film thing, so I'm wondering on the motivation to switch to Alexa.

 

love

 

Freya

[Guest]

I dare you to open an account on Reduser now :D

I must say, there is going to be an enormous number of Red Fanboys baffled as to why you didn't even feel the need to start a new thread to announce this! It's like those deranged people who deliberately choose to opt out if the IMDB.... :rolleyes:

 

Yeah right, I lasted about 15 mins on my first post there a couple of years ago. Owning an Alexa will get me booted in five minutes this time. :)

 

R,

[Guest]

Today you are full of surprises!!! ;)

 

 

 

My question was less about it in relation to other digital cameras, but in relation to film!

You always talk as if you are a film die hard, and of course if you can make it work budget wise, film is actually a really easy way to add production value! You seemed to be coping with doing the film thing, so I'm wondering on the motivation to switch to Alexa.

 

love

 

Freya

 

I'm going to give the Alexa a try on an upcoming project that I feel it is well suited for because of the nature of this film.

 

I may switch back to 35mm as the project requires. Or I'll chicken out at the last second a go back to 35mm a week before we start shooting.

 

R,

[Keith Walters]

Yeah right, I lasted about 15 mins on my first post there a couple of years ago. Owning an Alexa will get me booted in five minutes this time. :)

 

R,

Wasn't that DVXUser though? There's no "Richard Boddington" on the Reduser.net members list at any rate.

(Sigh) OK, I thought you'd want to try to beat your previous record, but clearly you're content to just rest on your laurels :D (/Sigh)

Yeah, I get it; I'm just an amateur; the best I could manage was about 10 months.

Actually, the ban expires in a couple of days; I wonder if it will be extended :rolleyes:

 

I must say, it was a bit mean of you, announcing this just now. It's like companies laying people off just before Christmas :(

[Keith Walters]

 

You always talk as if you are a film die hard, and of course if you can make it work budget wise, film is actually a really easy way to add production value! You seemed to be coping with doing the film thing, so I'm wondering on the motivation to switch to Alexa.

 

Speaking to other industry people I know, the answer is simply that after decades of claims of video cameras being "indistinguishable from film", (but with the convenience of video) the Alexa actually comes close to living up to that claim!

 

The Epic apparently does too, but there's no getting around the fact that people don't like to wait for the "Processing". If you're going to have to wait half a day to see the actual results, why not just shoot on film? Basically : "indistinguishable from video" (but with the inconvenience of film).

 

Also, owning your own camera gives you a lot more freedom to experiment when the opportunity arises.

[Marcus Joseph]

When you think about it though, could there be a market for ultra-high quality video at weddings? If some rich dude is OK ("happy" might be too strong a word :D) to spend $100,000 to $500,000 on his daughter's wedding, would he be prepared to shell out a bit extra for true 1920 x 1080 with a true film-like dynamic range?

I think there's more money in some weddings than in a lot of low-budget projects, I wouldn't be surprised if a successful wedding videographer in Sydney could cover a shoot with an Alexa on the money they make, but I doubt any of them would bother with such expense, or for anyone who ends up watching the thing would notice the difference with the final product (DVD).

Edited December 18, 2011 by Marcus Joseph

[Brian Drysdale]

People have had wedding videos shoot on 35mm film before now, so an Epic or Scarlet is possible use for those high end weddings that want to look like a Hollywood romance. I think one was even done in a Bollywood style.

[Keith Walters]

I think there's more money in some weddings than in a lot of low-budget projects, I wouldn't be surprised if a successful wedding videographer in Sydney could cover a shoot with an Alexa on the money they make, but I doubt any of them would bother with such expense, or for anyone who ends up watching the thing would notice the difference with the final product (DVD).

DVD maybe, but what about Blu-Ray?

Anyway, even if you're only releasing on VHS, the quality of the camera can still make a visible difference.

Also, as I mentioned, AVCHD produces results comparable to Blu-Ray, but using cheap DVD blanks, and you can edit those on a relatively cheap laptop.

And imagine having a cinema-sized screen at the reception. I'm not saying it would be tasteful, but would it be profitable? :lol:

[Guest]

Wasn't that DVXUser though? There's no "Richard Boddington" on the Reduser.net members list at any rate.

 

Reduser.net for sure, and 10 mins was about all it took. That was a couple of years ago, I am not trying to re-open a feud. Just recounting a comedic moment, that is all.

 

I must say, it was a bit mean of you, announcing this just now. It's like companies laying people off just before Christmas :(

 

Yeah sorry. The folks at Deluxe where quite shocked as well. This does not in any way mean I am abandoning film, not by a long shot (or a medium shot, or an establishing shot. He He, get it? A little film humour there) I do believe though that I bought the best alternative to film currently available.

 

Until 3:30pm tomorrow, when SONY or JVC announces the new best alternative to film.

 

R,

[Keith Walters]

Reduser.net for sure, and 10 mins was about all it took. That was a couple of years ago, I am not trying to re-open a feud. Just recounting a comedic moment, that is all.

All traces of your presence must have been erased then. (Unlike DVXUSer where you still retain your "Bronze Member" status. :lol:

 

I was only joking; I didn't expect you to actually do it.

Phil Rhodes now, that would be right up there with the LHC as an experiment in high-Energy physics. :rolleyes:

 

One thing that interests me though: If the Epic had a bolt-on module available that gave realtime edit-ready output like the Alexa does as standard, would you have reconsidered?

[Guest]

One thing that interests me though: If the Epic had a bolt-on module available that gave realtime edit-ready output like the Alexa does as standard, would you have reconsidered?

 

The Alexa is still an Arri. :rolleyes:

 

R,

[Keith Walters]

The Alexa is still an Arri. :rolleyes:

 

R,

Ah yes, the perennially unanswerable gambit.... :lol:

[Peter J DeCrescenzo]

... One thing that interests me though: If the Epic had a bolt-on module available that gave realtime edit-ready output like the Alexa does as standard, would you have reconsidered?

 

There are quite a few portable ProRes, DNX & other format HD video recorders available which can connect to a RED (or cam's) HD-SDI live output.

 

But as Richard B. says, why not just use an Alexa and be done with it?

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

[Phil Rhodes]

which can connect to a RED (or cam's) HD-SDI live output.

Not very usefully - it's only a very coarse debayer.

P

[Stephen Williams]

The Epic Deybayer is pretty good, I had a post house using a Pablo refuse to use the original files as the offline tacken from a pix 240 was so good. They were able to recover details in a window where I had even used HDRX.

 

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Not very usefully - it's only a very coarse debayer.

P

[Phil Rhodes]

Ouuuch, have you looked at the quick debayer on a zone plate?

[Keith Walters]

There are quite a few portable ProRes, DNX & other format HD video recorders available which can connect to a RED (or cam's) HD-SDI live output.

 

But as Richard B. says, why not just use an Alexa and be done with it?

 

Cheers!

Because it doesn't give you the option of higher resolution if you want it (or the client feels they need it). Remember this is about buying a camera, not renting it.

Live 1080p/2K should be the standard output on RED cameras, with higher resolution "delayed" RAW as the option.

With all the talk about the modular construction of the Epic and "millions of possible configurations", I thought for sure they would be offering a module that would provide real-time full-spec HD/2K out. But apparently they are convinced that nobody wants that.

It must be possible, since Arri and Canon do it.

[Guest]

This is another major reason I chose Alexa. I just can't be bothered with the bazzilions of bits of technical stuff involved with the post workflow of RED products.

 

With Alexa, it's easy for grade 8 students to make a school project with it. :o

 

R,

[Stephen Williams]

Ouuuch, have you looked at the quick debayer on a zone plate?

 

No , it was a commercial for Swiss TV, it looked way better than any of the material they provided to cut with together.

[Phil Rhodes]

Welp, there you go, I guess!

 

My reference is the first camera's debayer, which was really inexcusably bad. You could, in the early days, rip the JP2K frames right out of an R3D file, ignoring one of the green channels, and do a reconstruction just based on that (which is I assume how Epic does it, perhaps with slightly better scaling). The SDI out on the Red 1 was worse than that incredibly basic approach by quite a degree, which was surprising.

 

P

[Stephen Williams]

Welp, there you go, I guess!

 

My reference is the first camera's debayer, which was really inexcusably bad. You could, in the early days, rip the JP2K frames right out of an R3D file, ignoring one of the green channels, and do a reconstruction just based on that (which is I assume how Epic does it, perhaps with slightly better scaling). The SDI out on the Red 1 was worse than that incredibly basic approach by quite a degree, which was surprising.

 

P

 

To the Eye the Epic Debayer looks OK, a huge improvement over R1.