The anatomy of a Cinematographer

[Robert Hughes]

I'm curious, Chris. You are apparently the same poster as "Christian Film Project" in another thread of this forum. Why don't you use the same handle as before? And why don't you use your real name, as has been requested by the moderator for posting on cinematography.com? Is there something that you wish to hide from us, other than you don't have much respect for "girly" cinematographers?

[John Pytlak RIP]

One possibility to find a cinematographer with your outlook and approach to this project would be to work with a Church-based college or university that has a filmmaking program. Your video could be a class project, and the school would welcome the funding or a share in any potential profits.

 

Schools that come to mind include Bob Jones University, where Wade Ramsey, one of the filmmaking instructors, is a regular participant on the CML.

[Ryan Puckett]

She seemed really interested until I spoke of behaviour and expectations on set (this is a Christian film). I mean if I am paying to have them here I think I have the right here...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'm interested in what set behaviours and expectations you have? Especially if they became a deal breaker? You shouldn't have any problems finding people who operate in a very professional manner for the rates you are complaining about. Unless the request goes beyond standard business ethics.

[Luke Prendergast]

This was posted on [cml-anon] re: deferred payments, but I think it is highly appropriate here. Don't know who the author is.

 

 

 

I HAVE A

a) wonderful

B) fantastic

c) incredible

d) amazing

 

a) networking

B) creative

c) artistically fulfilling

d) back-breaking

 

OPPORTUNITY.

 

THIS

a) budget challenged

B) low budget

c) no budget

d) freebie

e) death defying

 

a) short film

B) spec spot

c) piece for my reel

d) trailer for my feature

e) self-indulgence

 

IS A

a) unbelievable

B) once in a lifetime

c) unusual

d) not uncommon

 

OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH A

a) awarding winning

B) big time agency

c) soon to be A-list

d) professional

e) fellow wannabe

 

a) director

B) cinematographer

c) art director

d) producer

e) grip

f) writer

 

WE WILL BE SHOOTING

a) 16-20 hour days

B) Saturday and Sunday

(select all c) on your birthday

that apply) d) until it's done

e) forever

 

THE CHANCE TO WORK ON THIS

a) groudbreaking

B) never before seen

c) unique

d) visionary

e) largely derivative

 

CREATIVE MATERIAL IS REWARD ENOUGH, BUT WE WILL ALSO

 

PROVIDE YOU WITH

a) gas money

B) cold sandwiches

c) hot coffee

d) cold coffee

e) a pat on the back

f) an empty promise for future work

g) the satisfaction of a job somewhat

well done given the constraining

circumstances of a free crew, a

night shoot, not enough lights, DV

video, lame talent and no budget.

 

WE ARE SHOOTING THIS WEEKEND AND THE

 

FOLLOWING POSITIONS OF

a) line producer

B) 1st AD

c) 2nd AD

(select as many d) AC

as needed or all) e) gaffer

f) key grip

g) best boy

h) script supervision

i) sound mixer & boom op

j) animal wrangler

k) makeup/hair

l) fluffer

 

ARE AVAILABLE. THE POSITIONS OF

 

a) executive producer

B) producer (select as many

c) director as needed or all)

d) cinematographer

e) camera operator

f) lead actor

 

ARE ALREADY FILLED BY

a) me

B) my roommate

c) my boss

d) the person who holds my

indentured servitude

 

PLEASE RESPOND DIRECTLY TO

 

a) my hotmail account

B) my yahoo account

c) my roommate's answering machine

d) anything but my work email address

because

1) the agency

2) the production company

3) the post house

4) my dad

 

DOESN'T KNOW THAT I'M

a) building a reel so I can quit

B) starting a competing company

c) secretly using all of the gear

d) still pursuing this hair-brained

scheme

 

I AM ALSO LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO DONATE

 

a) film processing and transfer on a Spirit

B) an uncompressed HD editing bay

c) the use of an entire facility in Manhattan for a week

d) duplication for my reel

e) original music and a surround mix

f) doughnuts for the 4:00 am call on Sunday

 

AFTER THIS PROJECT IS FINISHED, EVERYONE WILL GET

 

a) a copy of my reel

B) notice of cable access air times

c) to pay admission to the short film festival

d) a phone call for my next freebie project

 

THANKS FOR READING. SEE YOU AT THE SHOOT!!

------------------------------------------------------------

[Ryan Puckett]

deaeaeglbabdeba&d

 

I forgot to pick up my scantron forms at the student store, did I pass?

[hugovillasmythe]

Not more difficult than other H.O.D.'s on a movie.<_<

You have to realize that the responsabilities of a D.O.P. are very grave.

In the end his/her expertice, knowledge, artistry and care reflect deeply on how a movie is precieved by the audience.

Not only that. Since the only technician/artist job left in movie making is that of a Cinematograper the demands are enormous.

Besides, if you notice, his/her work is seen (therfore judged) all the time a film goes on, conciously or subconciously.

Granted some coleagues are as pleasant to deal with as a kick to the balls but that is true of any profession.

Producers and prod.mgrs. have head butting contests with D.O.P.'s because the equipment we handle is incredibly expensive and it looks very easy to slash a swolen budget by ridding yourself of some of those expensive 18k's and geared heads and, of course, firing two grips, a gennie operator and a couple of sparks.

But I have shot movies where the worse budget infractions have been incurred by wardobe or construction depts. and, in the end, the problem is usualy the same: producers will try to shoot a budget and, somehow, they expect a movie to come out of it.

Also, picky, of course we're picky.

Just remember the last 10 D.O.P.'s demo reels you've seen.

What do you remember them by?

You get to see them on the LCD screen of your lap top.java script:emoticon(':blink:')

What do you think of them?

Probably most of the shots you saw could be easily judged as run-of-the-mill, nothing to write home about cinematography and then, some other shots,, may look like the devil took a crap ad it was smothered on the negative, no?

We (D.O.P.'s) know this and, the ones that stay on the game play to it. You're only as good as your last shot.java script:emoticon('B)')

So, before you call us difficult, just imagine if we asked to see your company's banking record... do you think we'd work with you? Would you show us your financial statements? Because that's what we do every time we send a demo reel. We lay our work on the line for any Tom, Dick or Harry to judge on any piece of crap screen and take our lifes in their hands.

Would you let me look at your overhead costs?

;)

[Leon Rodriguez]

Chris,

Go to the nearest University Film school and post on the bulletin board. Someone who's building a first reel will probably answer your ad. A student cinematographer will probably do do a nice enough job for a small $5K DV project with the proper guidance from the director. You should be able to afford him since he will have an alternate reason to shoot your project. Best of luck.

[Rik Andino]

Sounds like an interesting job...

So when are you shooting Luke? :)

 

I've seen these everywhere...

If the folk who made them (real) ads could see how ridiculous they are...

I wonder...

 

It would also be a great world if Israel and the Arabs could come to peace

And no one had to pay income taxes! :D

 

Well a boy can dream.

[Rik Andino]

I mean it just gets to the point who is working for who here. I am sorry you cannot be the DP and call the shots. You can't have it both ways...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You still apparently don't understand how the film industry functions...

It ain't like running Ma & Pa's store...

 

You're hiring professionals who know more than you to do a job YOU CAN'T!

So you have to listen to them or they'll just stop wasting their time & go elsewhere

And since DPs work for themselves

And technically are not under your employment they can set their own rates...

You hire them at that set rate to do a job for you.

 

It's just like hiring lawyers...

You go up to a lawyer and tell 'em I've got 50 bucks work for me?

No they've got a set fee they work for and if you don't like it there's the door.

 

The same principle works with plumbers, doctors, accountants, etc..

It's a service industry you're paying to get a service done

You're not hiring employees--

You're not paying medical, or SS benefits, or worker's comp!

You're just their client, their customer, not their boss!

 

If you needed a lawyer you'd want the best you could afford & you'd pay for it.

And I'm sure you'd heed their advice very carefully

Since you know nothing about law

I wouldn't think you'd expect to tell them how to do their job.

 

Since you know nothing about cinematography

What makes you think you can boss them around?

 

It's a funny thing...hasn't anyone noticed?

Filmmaking is one of the only profession where the person in charge

Knows less then almost anyone else there.

 

How far would we get if an operating room worked that way?

Or Engineers functioned this way?

 

First-time directors should be willing to talk less and listen more

That way they'd learn.

[Nathan Milford]

It's a funny thing...hasn't anyone noticed?

Filmmaking is one of the only profession where the person in charge

Knows less then almost anyone else there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is EVERY non-film-related job I've worked in Rik >8)

[Annie Wengenroth]

I agree with Rik, you have to be willing to get over yourself a little bit and accept the fact that maybe other people will be able to help you out.

 

I don't usually let any of the posts on here get to me this much, but I think the idea of working on yet another set where I DON'T EAT, really did it for me! Who knows!

 

Let me tell you right now, I'm a STUDENT and if the director doesn't provide food for the crew, I'm gonna be a very hard sell. Why? Because I am a vegetarian with the metabolism of a hamster on speed, and if I don't eat, I get headaches and sometimes I get dizzy and quite simply I can't function. I can assure you that this would severely compromise my skills as a camera assistant or operator. When I see a director cutting corners on simple things like food and/or transportation, I see someone who could care less how other people contribute to his/her project. It sounds really harsh but that's just how I feel.

 

I don't think asking for money, food, or anything else along those lines, is being "demanding". Too often, I see beginning "directors" just sitting in the big chair bossing everyone else around with this attitude of "F*ck the crew, they can fend for themselves" and I can't stand it.

 

This isn't a "bashing students" post nor is it "bashing directors", it's just that there seems to be this type who barks incessantly at the crew, keeps them up shooting from 7 am to 4 am, doesn't provide food, and seems to think, "Just because I'm cool with getting by without food or sleep for so long, other people must be too".

 

I love what I do, but I don't think anybody can do what they love and do it for absolutely nothing...at least not for long. You hit a point where you need to feel like whatever you've accomplished is actually worth it, whether payback comes in the form of food or money.

 

I know I'm coming down really hard on you here but I think that you need to start thinking beyond what you want out of others, and more along the lines of what they would want to do for you, if given a choice. Whatever your idea for the film you want to create, don't be afraid to involve a ton of people to make it happen, and don't be picky. You would be surprised at who can come in handy on set. When people feel like they are necessary to your shoot, they will want to be there, and they will do their jobs better.

 

As for the aforementioned post where it implies that you are disrespectful towards "Girly" cinematographers, I remember that thread quite well and in retrospect, I wish I'd stood up for myself a little bit better. Aaand I'm not gonna touch the rest of that with a 30" gobo arm...

[Delorme Jean-Marie]

hi

i think this post could be an exelent oportunity to warn newbies about what they'll met with such projects.

about the "flags" or red lights david was talking about.

theyre are many categories of films "conditions wise" you can be proposed.

the friends ones : are made by your friends, no rules exept having fun and experience

 

the unknowns ones :

is there a production?

how many days?

hot meal, transportations?

how many shots a day (plan on a good 1 shot 1 hour)

is th crew coming from dp or prod or director?

is it a first film

don't hesitate to ask as many questions as posssible

you can ad more flags from your experience

 

newbies are all pasionate and willing to work for free but plenty of crap projects won't learn much instead of doubt and will bite in this amount of passion.

 

being profesional is first judging a project: will it bring to you more that what it take from you?

if it's the case do it !

it' s amazing how those jobs are the same whatever the country is !!

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> Because I am a vegetarian with the metabolism of a hamster on speed

 

Well, Spikey, to be honest, while I'm sympathetic, that is your choice. What's the famous line from Oliver?

 

"Meat, ma'am - meat! Raises a false spirit in a camera assistant."

 

You have left me with the endearing mental image of a hamster on speed as part of the camera department, though. Zoom!

 

Phil

[Guest vic73]

I'm a first-time director and I certainly don't view filmmaking as "leader and follower" but simply as collaboration. I must say that I had the pleasure of having dinner with David Mullen last year to get him interested in working on my project. I was a bit nervous knowing that I was meeting with an accomplished cinematographer but he sure made me feel at ease. I was upfront with him before our meeting and despite knowing how inexperienced I was, he still came to meet me. He talked about his previous work and I'm proud to say that he told me a little bit about his current project when we met. Looks like I'm getting off topic... The thing is, even though I was a total stranger, he agreed to meet with me after reading my synopsis. He asked me obvious questions; financing, equipment, locations etc. I tried to answer them as best as I could and also listened to plenty of advise he gave me. He even stated that even if my project wasn't a studio financed picture (he's into studio pictures now), I should show him my storyboards and the schedule (which I'm meticulously working on) and if it tickles his fancy, he'll consider if time permits or recommend one of his peers. Let me remind my fellow director the ABCs of filming: FEED THE CREW, FEED THE CREW, FEED THE CREW......

 

Lisa

Edited March 31, 2005 by vic73

[Sam Wells]

If you consider all directors as clueless, you'll end up only working with clueless directors.

(of which there are more than a few these days admittedly)

 

-Sam

[Morgan Peline]

I am aspiring Writer/Director/Producer working on my first project that will be shot on 24p!

 

I DO expect professionalism on the set which apparently have a problem with.

 

If this is the first film you will make? What exactly do you know about professionalism on a 'professional' film set? How many professional sets have you worked on? And if you do actually KNOW how a professional set works? Do you really actually believe that you can expect a completely smooth running shoot on a budget of $5000? With all the best will in the world from your 'collaborators', I think there has to be a little give and take due to your limited resources.

 

Unless, you are a budding Alfred Hitchcock, Steven Spielberg or Orson Welles, to me it sounds like you're expecting too much and offering too little in terms of basic recompense and more importantly; creative satisfaction from your team mates.

 

I've shot many many of freebies but I was willing to do it because as recompense I had a whale of a good time collaborating with directors I enjoyed working with, to try and make a good film regardless of limited resources.

[Greg Gross]

I do not know what anyone means here by the term "professional set",I'm

a professional photographer,what does that mean? It doesn't mean that I can

take better photographs than you can! As a boy I visited many movie sets as

I had family members who were actors. I don't think that any two movie sets

I've been on have ever operated the same this includes the present time and

some visits I've made. The whole game of leadership is whats involved here,

styles of leadership,how you relate to people and treat people. I'm sorry but

sometimes you have to be acertive about what you want and other times you

do not need to. I'm a newbie aspiring student cinematographer with two dv fea-

tures that may or not make it to film. The first project I did I slept on the set,

got my meals free, I was up and working on the set each day before anyone

else arrived. The second production I did a few weeks ago I was put up at the

Hampton Inn with highspeed internet,my meals were paid for,I was given tran-

sportation but refused it because they could not get me to the set early enough.

I drove my own suv at 4a.m. in the morning. I didn't know what dailies were

really for until David Mullen ASC taught me right here on the forum,he chopped

me down to about a 1/4 of an inch! You know what, I'm glad,because for the

rest of my life I'll be able to remember and tell the story that David Mullen ASC

taught me what dailies are really for. I have the greatest respect for this cine-

matographer and his art and craft. Three weeks ago my(one on one) female

director yelled at me-"God...Damnit if you don't like it, do the scene your way."

I did and she called me on Monday(this week) and asked me if I would con-

sider doing another dv feature with her,because quote- "We get a long ok."

I'm too new to know but maybe sometimes you just have to work with a dir-

ector or just quit if you're that unhappy. You may be throwing away a great

learning experience. Morgan best regards for your future,you've got the right

stuff! I'll be looking for your name in the credits and some day it will be there.

 

Greg Gross

[Chris Keth]

For a short aiming at 24 minutes, I don't think $500 a day is bad at all for your budget if the person is good. Think about what you're paying for. You're paying for the look of your film and everyone knows you get what you pay for.

 

 

I would advise you to take a good look at your budget and find out what you can really afford before you go complaining about working professionals wanting decent pay.

[Michael Morlan]

I'm a first-time director and I certainly don't view filmmaking as "leader and follower" but simply as collaboration.  I must say that I had the pleasure of having dinner with David Mullen last year to get him interested in working on my project.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

David is an incredibly gracious soul. He was equally engaging when I bent his ear the the DOT wrap party in Austin. I only hope that, when I am as busy as he is, that I still give of myself in such fashion.

[Riku Naskali]

I'd love to work for even a hundred bucks a day. That' still a lot more than nothing. Gee, wonder how that would feel, getting paid ;)

 

But you have to, I stress, have to feed your crew properly! Even more properly than on paying jobs. It's a common knowledge a human being should eat something about every three hours, of course not warm meals, but something. And I don't mean candy, instead some proper snacks.

 

I'm only a student, but I've got extremely good catering on every student film I've been involved, that's something our students have really undestood. Come to think of it, everything has worked wonderfully on every student shoot I've been, production-wise. I'd even say better than on some professional sets.

[Guest theyarethem]

i believe TSM pretty much hit the nail on the head!

[PANASONICDVX100]

Sounds like very normal "demands".

 

You have to understand as a producer that you are obligated to take care of your crew, this includes the DP.  It is a film making convention that people are fed on set.  At least one hot meal a day is not unreasonable.

 

My day rate varies with the budget of the project.  If it is a project that interests me either visually or story wise, I will take a pay cut.  The DPs you are speaking of are taking a major hit in pay to bring your "vision" to the screen.

 

You have a right to a point, to dictate certain "rules" for the particular show.  The crew should be respectful to your wishes.  But, I don?t know what you were asking.  If you elaborated we may be able to help explain why the crew did not oblige your wishes.

 

As you said, this is YOUR first project, thus you should be in the state of mind of learning from the others around you.  The DP will usually be the most experienced person on set, and is your closest collaborator.  Technically he is your employee, but artistically he is your close collaborator.

 

If you are trying to make a project for below 5k, you need to really rethink your approach.  You want the DP to be someone who needs the work, is new and up and coming.  He will be more likely to call in favors on your behalf, and make you feel less like he is doing you some big favor.

 

Also, your logic in coming here to bash cinematographers seems like a deliberate attempt to get your a** reamed.  It is like you going to a NAACP meeting dressed in a Klan outfit . . . what do you expect to hear from the DPs on this forum? (Okay, maybe the analogy is a little extreme, but oh well  :P)

 

Kevin Zanit

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kevin,

 

I agree. They are very normal demands.

 

CHRIS

[PANASONICDVX100]

lost in translations...:

 

1. "I am aspiring Writer/Director/Producer working on my first project that will be shot on 24p!" = I'm an obsessive-compulsive newbie that REALLY needs to get laid.

 

2. "My questions is why are Cinematographers so hard to work with/deal with?" = My grammar sucks and I'm angry... can I take it out on you guys?

 

3. "They (DP's) either don't want to travel or won't work below their quota or are extremely picky witht he assignments they will accept" = My assignment sucks.

 

4. "I had prospects of using a very skilled and well know DP around here (known by people in this forum). She seemed really interested until I spoke of behaviour and expectations on set (this is a Christian film). I mean if I am paying to have them here I think I have the right here..." = I was lucky enough to have a DP from this forum answer my call. Since the DP has a v@gina, my small peni$ feels threatened - so I'll single her out by referring to her as a "she" instead of a DP.

 

5. "On a sub 5K DV budget you are not going to be making $500.00/day as a cinematographer" = Pffft! Why should I pay 500$? I'm the genious here!

 

6. "I guess DPs don't really see the Director/Producer as their employer/supervisor but really should." = I'm lonely and no one respects me... and yes, I really need to get laid.

 

:D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Jonathan,

 

A clear indication of your maturity level:(

 

CHRIS

[PANASONICDVX100]

You should pry your head out of your a-- and screw it back on where it belongs.

If you're not the type who can solve problems or meet people half way then how can you expect ANYONE to take you seriously -- especially if this is your first project?

 

I'm new to cinematography too and the most important thing I learned from all of these posts combined is RESPECT.

 

DP's are artists -- whether they'll admit to it or not. Artists are notr always easy to work with.

But they are also human beings (yep - even the famous ones!) and should be treated accordingly.

 

As a producer you are more than just an "employer". You don't get paid to boss people around on set. You coach them, help them and listen to what they have to say. You feed them, take care of them and pay them what they deserve to be paid, and if you can't afford to, don't bother asking working professionals for help. Ask people like you and me - they may do it for free. I know I probably would for the experience/practice gained.

 

If you want professional results from professional DP's on a 5K budget "film", you're going to have to be moe flexible.

 

Why not shoot it yourself?? (this is your 1st project after all - itll probably suck anyway.. like most 1st projects usually do) You need the experience, right?\

Give it a shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Jonathan,

 

A far more helpful post and I agree I may need to shoot this one myself!

 

CHRIS

[PANASONICDVX100]

How dare he ask for a warm meal, and transportation fees!  This is an outrage :angry:  :angry:  :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm pretty nervy! It is an outrage!