what happened to RGB in L.A.?

[Guest simon beckman]

i went to RGB film lab in Los Angeles today to find out that they shut down. so now i wonder if there is any lab in L.A. that provides the same service RGB did. more specifically i now have a still-roll of 5218 that i would like to get processed.

i understand that i don't necessarily need a place to sell me the motion picture stocks on still rolls. that can be done fairly easily. however, i do need a place that offers ECN2 processing for stills.

thanks in advance for any information...

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Is that the place with the green awning out front and a sign on the side that says "RGB COLOR LAB"? It looked kind of... closed on Monday morning. I remarked upon it.

 

Phil

[Jake Kerber]

I received a letter from RGB stating that they'd lost their lease and were unable to relocate.

 

They advised to send still cartridges loaded with motion picture film to Photoworks:

 

1260 16th Ave. West

Seattle, WA 98119

 

206-281-1390

www.photoworks.com

 

It's too bad. RGB was a great L.A. resource.

 

-Jake Kerber

[Matthew Beals]

Photoworks processes the motion picture kodak stocks but they don't sell the stocks already spooled into 36 Exposure cartridges like RGB did.

 

Anyone know a resource for getting the 35mm Kodak Motion Picture stocks already spooled?!

 

Thanks in advance...

[John Pytlak RIP]

Photoworks processes the motion picture kodak stocks but they don't sell the stocks already spooled into 36 Exposure cartridges like RGB did.

 

Anyone know a resource for getting the 35mm Kodak Motion Picture stocks already spooled?!

 

Thanks in advance...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"Rolling your own" is always an option: B)

 

http://www.adorama.com/BLL.html

 

http://www.penncamera.com/store/item.asp?I...PARTMENT_ID=230

 

http://buyporters.com/Merchant2/merchant.m...tegory_Code=F1U

[Les Dittert]

So who has the cheapest dev. only for 16mm in LA. I understand that RGB was .10 a foot.

Thanks!

[Felipe Perez-Burchard]

John, you know Fuji offers the stills rolls for free to students...

:P

 

-felipe.

[John Pytlak RIP]

John, you know Fuji offers the stills rolls for free to students...

:P

 

-felipe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Personally, I don't think shooting 35mm stills on a motion-picture film and making paper prints or slides accurately shows the properties of a film used for making motion pictures. First, the magnification is incorrect, so sharpness and grain cannot really be judged. Second, granularity is perceived very differently on a moving image. Finally the still images are rarely color timed/graded scene-to-scene, so judgement of the color and tone scale is often misleading.

 

Kodak has many grant programs for student filmmakers that are much more useful to them than respooled short ends:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/students...d=0.1.4.3&lc=en

[Damon Meledones]

Can anybody report about their expirence with PhotoWorks ECN-2 service? I shoot Vision2 500T for theatrical and night photography and right now my only options seem to be saving up 100ft of film to run at Colorlab or mailing to PhotoWorks, who have not had the best track record in the past.

 

Has anybody found a lab that is willing to run lengths shorter than 100ft? I don't need paper prints, but projection prints would be nice.

[John Pytlak RIP]

Can anybody report about their expirence with PhotoWorks ECN-2 service?  I shoot Vision2 500T for theatrical and night photography and right now my only options seem to be saving up 100ft of film to run at Colorlab or mailing to PhotoWorks, who have not had the best track record in the past.

 

Has anybody found a lab that is willing to run lengths shorter than 100ft?  I don't need paper prints, but projection prints would be nice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Many motion-picture labs are reluctant to process short lengths of film in the ECN-2 process because all the splices increase the risk of a break in the machine. Usually the films would be spliced into a roll in an "off-line" darkroom, then the roll would be loaded onto the machine when no other critical work was going though the machine. Labs may do this as a favor for an important client, or if they want to cultivate this "niche" business as RGB did.

[Charles MacDonald]

Can anybody report about their expirence with PhotoWorks ECN-2 service? ....PhotoWorks, who have not had the best track record in the past.

 

Has anybody found a lab that is willing to run lengths shorter than 100ft?  I don't need paper prints, but projection prints would be nice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Many proecessing machines need to be threaded with leader, so It is a hastle for the lab to run a short roll. I was rather underwhelmed by Photworks on a recent test I sent them. I am told that Dale labs will still run ECN film.

 

I have not played with the newer films, but I will agree that the older ones DID NOT make great Ppaer prints. The fact that you are probly not going to get 5000 ft of stock at a time means that you are likely not gettingthe freshest stock. (Exception, those that work on a set and can get permission to take home short-short ends - IE those ends under 75 feet that are useless for movies)

 

As slides - printed on MP film, these stocks can make VERY good Photos. I have not gotten into scanning, but with the right traslation tables one could proably do very well. The low contrast nature of some of the MP films might let you record images over a slightly higher dynamic range than still film would allow. The extra cost of processing makes it unecconomical to just use ends as a way of saving on bulk film for most folks, The backing on the Kodak films made any attempt at home processing rather messy. (DON'T ask me how I know this)

[Gary Robinson]

In Hollywood, I use Laser Pacific for processing and Crest National for transfer. I'm too lazy to go over the hill.

[K Borowski]

I am, at the moment, trying to get all of the equipment together to offer this sort of process myself. I don't have any specialized video analyzers to use now, so I'd have to start out doing this sort of work either one-lighting, or by trial and error, but eventually I should be able to start doing this stuff at a higher volume of work. Within a month I want to have my first few test rolls run and then I'm going to take it from there. Only problem is, I'm nearer to the East Coast than the West Coast, so this service isn't going to be very quick.

[K Borowski]

I was on the phone with Dale Labs today and they said that they could do ECN-2 processing, once a week, and that they can make prints onto ECP-2 from either C-41 or ECN-2 for $7.99 one-light or $9.99 frame analyzed (24 exp.). The fact that they can adjust contrast as well as being able to print equally well from either ECN-2 or C-41 sounds like they are a real boon for moviemakers and still photographers utilizing Kodaks high-speed tungsten movie stocks. Their prices might be a little higher than RGB's, but they also seem to have a much better service selection, so I am going to put off trying to do this stuff myself and instead give them a try. One more thing: they don't sell ECN-2 film, but that is obtained easily enough. I am probably going to start spooling the stuff myself.

 

Regards.

~Karl Borowski

[Charles MacDonald]

I prevoiusly said:

I was rather underwhelmed by Photworks on a recent test I sent them.

 

I just received the link to the scaned version of my second try with Photoworks. There is GOOP all over the images, and even I who am colour blind can see that the colour is Very off. It looks like the black backing was not removed fully from the film. They already had this problem with two of the 4 rolls I sent them last time, they gave me a credit, so I gave them the benifit of the doubt. When I get the physical film back I will let you know if my guess is correct.

 

This was a fairly fresh end of ECN (One of my prevoius rolls of this was processed sucessfully at phtoworks on my first try so I think the film is not too far out of spec.)

 

Next test roll will go to Dale.

[Thomas Worth]

Rolling your own SLR cartridges from motion picture rolls is easy. Once I started doing it I never bought the stuff pre-rolled. You can buy short ends of popular Kodak MP stocks for around $.10 a foot or sometimes get "test" or "scrap" rolls (around 100 ft or so) for free. You can roll them in a changing bag or in a light-tight closet. I bought some weather-stripping at Home Depot and put it around one of the closet door frames in my apartment to guarantee a light-free environment.

 

Hand processing the film is possible, but it is difficult to obtain the CD-3 developer since it is only sold in bulk. You can use C-41 developer to cross-process but your resulting images will have a noticeable green cast. Stop, bleach, and fixer for stills can be used (I have heard the E-6 bleach is better than the C-41 for MP film).

 

As far as the rem-jet goes, I just skip the pre-bath and leave it on. I have noticed that most of it comes off after the stop bath. I think this is because of the sulfuric acid stop, which is actually part of the ECN-2 spec. I've tried to do a pre-bath of borax and water and it doesn't work properly. Although it loosens the rem-jet, but it still requires some squeegeeing to come off completely. You wouldn't want to do this before putting it through the developer.

[K Borowski]

Hey Thomas:

I give you props for souping the chemistry for color film yourself. That can be some tricky business. Have you tried Dale's service yet?

 

Regards.

~Karl Borowski

[John Pytlak RIP]

The polymer used to bind rem-jet to the film is softened by the prebath, which has a high pH and high salt content, and then comes off in the water spray off and buffer stage. Running a rem-jet film directly into the developer without a proper removal stage may have the rem-jet come off in the developer or later solutions (a MESSY proposition at best):

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en.../h242/h2402.pdf

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en.../h247/h2407.pdf

[Thomas Worth]

I give you props for souping the chemistry for color film yourself.  That can be some tricky business.  Have you tried Dale's service yet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I haven't tried them. I probably will at some point, just to see how they compare to RGB.

 

The polymer used to bind rem-jet to the film is softened by the prebath, which has a high pH and high salt content, and then comes off in the water spray off and buffer stage.  Running a rem-jet film directly into the developer without a proper removal stage may have the rem-jet come off in the developer or later solutions (a MESSY proposition at best)

It is messy, but if you are hand processing one roll at a time in a small tank, it's bearable. At the end of the process there is usually a small amount of rem-jet left on the film, but it wipes off easily.

 

Hey John, how about donating a small quantity of ECN-2 process developer? :) That would make for some good experimentation, and some nice things to say about Kodak... ;)

[K Borowski]

Well, I think that you are thinking of a continous machine processor when you refer to those problems with RemJet backing coming off John. Are you using a high-speed movie processor or a simple metal tank Thomas? My biggest concern with doing any sort of color myself these days (with the exception of prints, which can obviously be re-done if I screw up) is the permanency of any mistakes you may make as well as the difficulty in maintaining such an accurate temperature. When I do an occasional 8x10inch color print, I can get color shifts with something as simple as waiting a minute between prebath and developer, or having my fishtank heater shut off as few as 30 seconds before I pull the developer out of the warm-water. Doing paper at lower temperatures (I use 90° Fahrenheit for paper) can lead to a +20CC yellow shift as well as prolonging development times by a factor of three. I have heard that film, C-41, ECN-2, or ECP-2 can all have additional problems besides the +20CC shift which cannot be corrected, so you have to have some pretty precise heating equipment to attempt to process any sort of color film, negative or print, at home. IIRC, the recommended temperature for color films is around 100°F, which is very difficult to attain, especially if your basement is a constant 60°F like mine is.

 

Regards.

~Karl Borowski

[Charles MacDonald]

I was on the phone with Dale Labs today and they said that they could do ECN-2 processing, once a week, and that they can make prints onto ECP-2 from either C-41 or ECN-2 for $7.99 one-light or $9.99 frame analyzed (24 exp.).

 

I got back my first roll from Dale (in the past ten years anyway) (2960 Simms Street, Hollywood, Florida 33020-1579 Toll Free (800) 327-1776 ) The slides were dated october 14, and they were in my mail box as of friday, so the postal delaty is a serious concern.

 

They did do a clean job of processing the two triel rolls I sent, which were homeloaded from shortends. I asked for slides and also a CD from each roll.

 

The slides have Dale's name on them, and also credit "Kodak Vison Film" By working a few shots out of the mounts, I found a slide with edge printing so that I could see that the film actually says K'odak 2383. (KODAK VISION Color Print Film )

 

The negatives were returned cut into strips of 4 frames as is a common proctice iwth still films, and the edge with the Keycode was Notched every frame so that the numbers were hard to read. The CD has each still frame in a 3K size Jpg file. Again if I was doing a test, I would have prefered the negatives uncut so that there would be less chance of the order getting upsetover a bunch of VERY Closely alike shots.

 

Looking at the slides, each frame has a clear border including at the frame line so it may be that they are printing each frame individualy. That may make judgements of what a shot looks like evern more difficult than if they were just doing a "one light" print of the whole roll.

 

I only sent a couple of "normal rolls for my first test, and so I amy try to include same over and under exposed shots in my next teat as well as trying a few differnt films that I have some sort ends from in my freezer. My short ends were obtained from ebay sellers so I cannot be sure how fresh they are.

 

The results were interesting enough to try some more, and since it appers that they are doing the prints digitaly, they may in fact be able to tweak the contrast to make good prints from the MP negs.

 

One option is to just get a cd from a roll that may be of interest in making storyboards.

 

Of course I will now have to check to see if they are back up after the last bad storm when though their area of Florida before I try any more tests.

[Brad Grimmett]

How much did Dale charge you Charles? And do you know if they'll load MP stock into still canisters?

[Charles MacDonald]

How much did Dale charge you Charles? And do you know if they'll load MP stock into still canisters?

 

THey charge the same price as they charge for regular film. The price varies depending if you want scans, slides, prints or some combination. Their web site is http://www.dalelabs.com/

 

Interestingly they did supply a return envelope which can be mailed postage paid if you mail it from the USA.

 

They don't supply movie film, in fact I ordered their "replacement film" and it seems to be ferania c-41 with the cassette saying it is Process CNK-4/ECP-2 I wonder why the would be equating the ECP process with Konica's version of C-41. The cassette also did not have a bar code so your local minilab will probaly refuse to deal with it.

 

I have been bulk loading short ends from Stock Options or Certified Film into empty cassettes. (One of the advantages to so much production happening in Toronto and Vancouver is that their are short end dealers in Canada now)

 

I have been meaning to pass along some tips..

 

I have an "alden 200" Bulk loader, this is big enough to take 200 feet of film on a 2 inch core. I have saved a one inch core from Bulk still film, that fits on the center post of the loader and holds the Movie film cores from flopping arround. the 100 Ft Spools will fit on the center post just fine. I have not encountered an end that started life as a 1000 ft roll, but that might be tight if It was 200 Ft.

 

(just looking on the web this may be becoming a rare item see:

http://www.cambridgeworld.com/newmiscellaneousclearance.html ) The Alden 74 only takes 100 ft rolls but is more common.

[Alessandro Machi]

"Rolling your own" is always an option: B)

 

http://www.adorama.com/BLL.html

 

http://www.penncamera.com/store/item.asp?I...PARTMENT_ID=230

 

http://buyporters.com/Merchant2/merchant.m...tegory_Code=F1U

 

 

This is the kind of thing that Kodak should help prevent.

 

From a public perspective, it looks like another film outlet has died, the reality is a greedy landower offed them.

 

Kodak should see the negative publicity this can generate and get someone in their company to help RGB outl

 

It IS Kodak's business.

[David Mullen ASC]

It IS Kodak's business.

 

If it's not a profitable business, not enough to pay for their own rent, then I don't see a major corporation like Kodak stepping in and buying it and running it at a loss just for publicity's sake. Especially considering that RGB Labs has no real affect on their major customers.

 

However, considering that most people shoot these little cassettes for testing motion picture stocks, Kodak SHOULD set-up a little ECN-2 processor at their Hollywood office and develop them for people on request -- I'm just not sure if a small ECN-2 processor is really possible to build, since there is the rem-jet removal step. Or they should send it over to Laser Pacific's ECN-2 lab, since they now own Laser Pacific, and offer to develop these cassettes of MP negative.

 

However, Kodak subsidizing or buying a private still lab like RGB with such a low profit margin doesn't make much of a business sense, and the argument that the lack of such a lab will ultimately hurt Kodak's motion picture stock sales is nonsense. The future use of motion picture color negative stock will not ulitmately be affected or decided by the existence or lack of existence of RGB Labs to develop stills. It's just a minor customer inconvenience that Kodak could solve by setting up another way of getting those little cassettes of ECN-2 stock developed, perhaps by getting Laser Pacific involved.