Black & White Film That Isn't So Dark?

T Sanders · March 19, 2014

Hello,

I'm working on a project for 2015 that I want to shoot on black and white 16mm film. I've watched several films online shot with Tri-X film and a few on Double X but the blacks are so dark (I know, they're supposed to be). :)

These are great film stocks but for my film I kinda don't want the blacks to be so black. For example, one of my favorite films is the 1956 version of "The Bad Seed" and as you can see from the photos the black and white image is not so dark. The blacks aren't so black like they are in the modern stocks. I might not be explaining this well. You can see from the fireplace below that there is black and that the liquor is obviously a dark color but the overall scene isn't dark on the edges and has an even grey scale tone.

Even the images with more dark areas aren't as black as what I've seen in modern B&W stocks.

Is it possible for me to achieve this lighter toned black and white imagery with modern black and white film stocks?

Or would I have to shoot on color film and do a grey scale/desaturate/black and white treatment on it in post?

This discussion lost me a bit:

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=50105&hl=%20black%20%20and%20%20white&page=2

I think someone in that post had a great idea of shooting with a still film camera using the film stock I'd like to use with the setup I plan to shoot and see how that looks. I'm going to try that.

Edited March 19, 2014 by T Sanders

T Sanders · March 19, 2014

Or am I missing the point entirely and they had like a trillion watt lights going on in those days? :)

This is a Tri-X Still and it's well... Dark: http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20113/big_1533__MG_8644_1.jpg

Chris Burke · March 19, 2014

The blacks are not "supposed to be" dark, that is a matter of taste. You can light it and control contrast as to your liking. Black and white reversal is inherently higher in contrast, although you can light it very flat. Black and white negative has less contrast than reversal, but it can be exposed with very high contrast. It is all up to you. I would recommend black and white negative for a classic black and white look. You can shoot color neg and de-saturate in post, but it doesn't look the same. However, it is a "look" which is quite popular and color negative film will give you the lowest contrast image.

Adrian Sierkowski · March 19, 2014

Exactly, it's not darkness you're seeing, it's contrast. And yes, they would've had quite a bit of light back then ;).

Even now we often still use quite a bit of light when shooting on what are very "fast" cameras. Hell I used a ton of light on a F5 shoot-- more than I've used in a long while, despite it's 2000asa.

David Cunningham · March 19, 2014

Exactly (both comments above). It's all about how you light and the look you are going for.

Exactly the same problem you are facing is what was facing the DP in "The Artist". They did test shoots with a few different B&W stocks but decided they needed/wanted the exposure latitude and low contrast look of color negative. So, the movie was shot in Vision3 500T 5219 and then de-saturated in post. This gave them the old-school natural grain look that they wanted, but the ability to control the contrast in post. That's one unarguable advantage of digital post. If you can shoot/capture a scene with lots of dynamic range, you can then add contrast in post. It's impossible to do it the other way around.

David Cunningham · March 19, 2014

Also note all the shadows in your 3 example photos. Those scenes (especially the first 2) where shot with LOTS of light.

T Sanders · March 19, 2014

I completely understand now. Thank you all for your input. I will set up some of my test scenes like how I want to shoot the film and do stills shots with Tri-x and various other films and see how that goes. I'd like something like the last photo for most of the film but something like the first photo for the romance scenes.

I'll check out "The Artist" too.