Just finished my first 35mm Feature film

[Guest]

Actually we did once leave our Shih Tzu at the campsite and drove off. Once we got back he was quite happily being cared for by the people next to us, I think he was disappointed we came back :)

 

R,

[Guest]

 

I once took this attitude with regard to getting something produced. Two and a half years later, I decided that there was persistence, then there was self flagellation. By the time someone has told you "no way, not now, not ever, don't call us again or we'll get a restraining order," and I'm only just kidding, the latter applied. Sometimes the answer is genuinely no. It's something we specialise at in the UK.

 

Again, I'm going to agree with you Phil, indeed there is such a thing as flogging a dead horse.

 

I no longer write scripts unless a "real" buyer has read the synopsis and expressed real interest, otherwise yes, it's a waste of time. The difference with me is that I have 25 synopsis' in stock, if they don't like A, I go to B, don't like B, how about C?

 

R,

[Phil Thompson]

 

I once took this attitude with regard to getting something produced. Two and a half years later, I decided that there was persistence, then there was self flagellation. By the time someone has told you "no way, not now, not ever, don't call us again or we'll get a restraining order," and I'm only just kidding, the latter applied. Sometimes the answer is genuinely no. It's something we specialise at in the UK.

 

Didn't you try different markets Phil? Maybe it didn't work here but it's a big world out there. What happened?

[Miguel Angel]

Richard, you should try going to universities and give masterclasses about producing, financing and distributing a movie.

 

I'm pretty sure you would be one of the few people who would teach something useful! :)

 

Have a good day!

[Phil Thompson]

Yeah Richard. I'd be very interested in listening to everything you have to say about producing, financing and distributing. Maybe you could do a podcast? I for one would pay

[Guest]

I'm on this page, 4th one down:

 

http://www.crafttruck.com/author/jikeman/page/11/

 

Might be something useful in there, I dunno know? I did a Sirius radio piece as well. There are quite a number of very informative interviews on that page!

 

Miguel....I'd end up with a Phil Rhodes in my class and want to quit the next day. :D

 

R,

[Phil Thompson]

Cheers mate, having a little listen now

[Guest]

Here's a pic I keep handy on my phone to show all would be producers, these are the bank closing documents for my last film. I have to sign all the pages with the yellow stickies. Then I ask the person, sure you want to do this as a career? This is a serious business you're getting into. The legal fees on my last film exceeded $60, 000.00. You are not just paying for your lawyer, you have to pay for the bank's as well, out of your budget!!

 

You're also expected to be an expert on tax credits (domestic and foreign), distribution, finance, union contracts, broadcast regulations, the list goes on and on.....which is why I say this is a 5-6 hour discussion to get started.

 

But I started from nothing, and learned little by little.

 

R,

 

 

[Phil Rhodes]

If you don't mind, I'm going to use that image as more or less a single-picture visual summation of every point I've ever tried to make about this.

 

Mortals need not apply.

 

Oh, and Phil:

 

 

 

What happened?

 

I was repeatedly told that there is absolutely no funding of any kind whatsoever available for any sort of screen production in the UK, unless you are a big American company.

 

And frankly I found it hard to object. Why should anyone want to fund me? I'm a nobody.

 

P

[Phil Thompson]

Do you have a screenplay then?

[Guest]

Mortals need not apply.

 

Ah.....but I was once a mere mortal, now the bank takes me to lunch! :D

 

R,

[Phil Rhodes]

Several, in my younger, stupider days.

 

But you won't even get to the point where that matters. Getting to the point where that's relevant is many, many steps beyond where most people will fail. Most people (frankly, effectively all people) will get to the front desk and be told to get lost, because that's what the front desk has been told to tell absolutely everyone without exception, unless they're a friend of the managing director.

 

And we have to be clear, here. Getting to the point where anyone even cares you exist is a major achievement. Getting anyone to say they'll accept a script from you is an astonishing piece of good luck. Nobody wants to read your script. Nobody wants to fund your movie (and nobody wants to buy it now you funded it). There are already well-established procedures for all these things which are not open to new entrants. It is a closed loop and rightly so.

 

You need to understand the level of complete disinterest you face. They don't need your film. They have literally several thousand others to choose from. They don't need you. They have literally several million others to choose from. Having a script is irrelevant. Getting to the point of anyone caring whether it's any good or not is high fantasy.

 

P

[Miguel Angel]

Phil, Iñarritu started as a nobody before his radio show, so did Orson Welles and many others.

Why would you be different to them? :)

 

Richard, I don't think you would quit teaching, it seems to be a good job when students listen and discuss! :) :D

 

Have a good day!

[Guest]

Yeah most of that is true Phil, the studio system is an even bigger wall, those guys have a mote, drawbridge, guard towers, search lights, and 50 cal machine guns with orders to shoot and kill any would be writer director who dares to put a toe into the water.

 

And yet guys like your very own Chris Nolan and Garerth Edwards managed to get in. This year some other "kids" will manage to get in as well. How they do it? I don't know????????

 

R,

[Phil Rhodes]

How they do it?

 

Blind, unthinking, unpredictable, uncontrollable luck.

 

At that level, you're talking about a lottery win.

 

But either way, certainly not by making terrible films for £2 and trying to sell them.

[Guest]

Well Gareth did make a feature film, if he sat home and twiddled his thumbs....what would of happened for him?

 

R,

[Phil Rhodes]

Same as happens to the overwhelming majority of other people who make terrible feature films for £2. He'd have sat at home some more.

[Guest]

Monsters wasn't terrible though :)

 

R,

[Miguel Angel]

In fact, it was a great genre movie and Gareth knows how to direct! He really knows his craft.

 

I think that commercials and tv series are very good ways of exploring new narratives and definitely more interesting than a lot of the films / documentaries out there.

 

Not everybody wants to make features so you can have your chance yet Phil!

[Phil Thompson]

Did you complete a feature film then Phil?

[Phil Rhodes]

No chance - I was pretty stupid, but I wasn't that stupid!

 

I mean look, in all seriousness, even getting to the point of having ninety minutes of narrative with a soundtrack and titles and whatever else is indicative of a hell of a lot of work being done, no matter how awful it is. Fine. Well done. But that's also why it's so depressing. The likelihood of anyone with less than several million to spend being allowed to make and distribute feature films, especially in the UK, is so microscopically remote it hardly bears thinking about. I wouldn't try it anywhere in the world, let alone here. There is no culture of distributing feature films here, none whatsoever, unless you're a big American company. This is hardly a controversial claim, it's blindingly obvious.

 

It's sad directly because of the work you put in. Nobody wants to see this happen. I don't like the situation any more than you do. But it is the situation, and nobody's going to do anything about it so we have to live with it.

 

And yes, of course, you can always cite a rock star. Ooh, look what happened to that guy! That might happen to me, too! We've talked about the Rodriguez Gambit before.

 

Well, yes it might happen to you. You might also find a winning lottery ticket on a bus, which would probably be much, much more likely.

 

P

[Freya Black]

Phil, Iñarritu started as a nobody before his radio show, so did Orson Welles and many others.

Why would you be different to them? :)

 

 

This is definitely not true of Orson Welles. I mean when you think about it, it obviously wouldn't be true as it's really difficult to get your own radio show!

 

There is actually a series on BBC radio right now about Orson Welles and it is really interesting listening, he had a lot of incredible successes and massive setbacks. Recommend you go and check it out on the iplayer, but obviously he wasn't a nobody who happened to have his own radio show.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

And yet guys like your very own Chris Nolan and Garerth Edwards managed to get in. This year some other "kids" will manage to get in as well. How they do it? I don't know????????

 

R,

 

This is the second time I have had to point out that Christopher Nolan was not some nobody who came out of nowhere and suddenly had a succesful filmmaking career. I point you towards his wiki entry where you can read about his background. I'm not sure I would even say "your very own Chris Nolan" as there are not so many people in the UK who have an uncle who works for NASA.

 

Gareth Edwards is a better example, although Monsters was not his first feature as everyone likes to pretend and Gareth used to make living at thee BBC! So hardly coming out of nowhere like people like to pretend either. His story is really interesting as he used visual effects as his entry into directing. I've come across a few people having success with this model lately.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Like most of these conversations there is a bit of truth in both sides. Phil is right that the people at 20th Century Fox are not likely to be interested in talking to you.

 

Some direct to dvd distributor of B-Movies might have a little more time however.

 

Also it's worth noting what Richard has quietly said a number of times now.

You contact these people with your keyart and your trailer.

 

No-one is going to sit down and watch your whole movie which is why the trailer and poster are so important.

 

The other reason these 2 items are so important is because they give the people at the other end an idea of how the film might be marketed which is what these people will be interested in. They will be much more interested in how they might be able to sell your film than how good it is. Although if the film is unwatchable this might still put them off.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

There are already well-established procedures for all these things which are not open to new entrants. It is a closed loop and rightly so.

 

 

Rightly so???!!!! Rightly So?? !!!! WTF are you talking about Phil?!! Definitely not rightly so.

I don't think it is at all right that the media in this country is a closed shop only open to whatever posho's nephew needs a job this week etc. The media in general should be more open to a greater diversity of people.

 

You know a presenter on Radio 4 yesterday morning suggested that working class folks weren't nice people. He flat out said that and you should have heard gasps and backtracking from the other people in the studio. It's more than a bit off that the FM radio spectrum, which we have been constantly told is so scarce and limited, has 2 national radio stations dedicated to classical music and a speech station which is best described as the Oxford University Broadcasting society. 3 National Stations. In London there is a tiny low power arts station for ordinary folk that has to survive by public donations. It's easier to receive it over the internet. Oh yeah and it's entirely volunteer run. Compare and contrast.

 

Setting aside all the offensive TV such as those recent TV shows "Poverty isn't it a bit of a laugh" etc. Lets look at the tiny state subsidies available for film production. It's not true to say that this funding is only available to U.S. companies although you are right that a lot of it goes to fund crap like Garfield 2 or whatever but there is government funding constantly being given to middle class males who all look like they stepped out of the latest Wes Anderson screening. Yes they moan about diversity a lot but it's all talk to look good. Sometimes they are also genuinely out of touch such as the government funded training course that was complaining on twitter that they weren't any applications from outside London and a number of people including myself wrote back to point out that £150 was a lot of money to people outside the m25 and they couldn't afford to send it off to apply to be considered for a training course.

 

Recently the film funding stuff has been a lot more open and better run with even an actual filmmaker being in charge of film London (or at least someone who once made a movie). I've thus been able to talk to people and discover what the core problem is with film funding like this. Here it is. These screen organisations insist on having filmmaking teams. Specifically they are keen to have a dedicated producer on board. This producer can't be anyone like the other positions. The producer has to be someone with a track record. So basically they have to be one of the people who have made one of the previous Brit films whether successful or not. They just have to be someone who has had a bunch of funding from them before. These people will then work with their mates who will also be posh / middle class / whatever and so the cycle goes.

 

Lately there has been a slight improvement in that there is now mandated diversity in the film funding. This is actually quite broad as it was spelled out by Greg Dyke although in practice we were straight up told not to bother applying unless we were in the BAME catergory as that was the only diversity they wanted. At least they were straight up about it and didn't waste anyones time.

So there might be an improvement in this respect but we will have to wait and see.

 

It is not right in general that arts funding in this country is funnelled away into funding posh people to make art for other posh people when it is mostly the ordinary folks who are paying for it all.

 

I would definitely say not rightly so. The whole thing is a bit of a joke like a lot of stuff in the UK is.

These kind of closed shops are not right or useful and they lead to utterly bizzare programming and odd standards for which the whole country is the poorer.

 

Really surprised to hear you suggest that things should be like this Phil.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Freya Black