Guest Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Self promotion rarely works when you're a freelancer. I'm going to have to 100% disagree, there's no promotion like self promotion. Freelancers who do a bad job at selling themselves are going to have a tough time in their careers. But hey, everyone can take their own path. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael LaVoie Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 I'm going to have to 100% disagree, there's no promotion like self promotion. Freelancers who do a bad job at selling themselves are going to have a tough time in their careers. But hey, everyone can take their own path. R, I agree and I would retract that as a blanket generalization . I think it depends on the nature of the work. Also, the way the "selling" is done. There's an art to it for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted October 4, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 4, 2016 It's just how you define "self-promotion" and how subtle you are about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 It's just how you define "self-promotion" and how subtle you are about it. One thing I am not when it comes to self promotion is "subtle." I find that if people don't know about your achievements there is only one way for them to be informed, you tell them. I certainly don't rely on others to do it for me. If that happens great, but it's a secondary line of promotion in my view. In my case I am always ready to supply a link, or a PDF, to back up what I am telling people. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted October 4, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 4, 2016 One thing I am not when it comes to self promotion is "subtle." Well, no, we... Ah, forget it. Too easy. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Well, no, we... Ah, forget it. Too easy. P Timid people don't get very far in this industry Phil. :) R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael LaVoie Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 It's just how you define "self-promotion" and how subtle you are about it. Exactly. There's a fine line between staying on peoples radar vs driving them to hit the "unfollow" or "unsubscribe" button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Exactly. There's a fine line between staying on peoples radar vs driving them to hit the "unfollow" or "unsubscribe" button. Funny you should say that, Stephen Whitehead who was my DOP on the Against The Wild films, calls me every two days....minimum. I have to hire him, I can't get away from him!!! Here's the kicker, he does this with everyone he knows, and guess what.....he never stops working. I can guarantee he books more days on set than any other member of this forum, easily. If anyone needs pointers on getting work, PM the guy, he has the methodology down pat. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael LaVoie Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Funny you should say that, Stephen Whitehead who was my DOP on the Against The Wild films, calls me every two days....minimum. I have to hire him, I can't get away from him!!! Here's the kicker, he does this with everyone he knows, and guess what.....he never stops working. I can guarantee he books more days on set than any other member of this forum, easily. If anyone needs pointers on getting work, PM the guy, he has the methodology down pat. R, When a DP has worked for filmmakers as prolific as yourself, who are always making films back to back, I could see how then perhaps this constant contact is welcome. If on the other hand, the filmmakers one works for are also always struggling to finance their projects and not always in production, then what you describe can be an unwelcome reminder to the director that they aren't as busy as they should be. It's hard to hook up with a director or producer who is successfully always working. Finding folks like that is very tough as they tend to remain loyal to their DP's. Which I think is great btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted October 4, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 4, 2016 I've said it a thousand times, but pestering people will only make someone unpopular. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Tore Soerensen Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 I've said it a thousand times, but pestering people will only make someone unpopular. P Not if you're a likable person. If on the other hand you are negative, always complaining and never provide any real value, then sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 When a DP has worked for filmmakers as prolific as yourself, who are always making films back to back, I could see how then perhaps this constant contact is welcome. If on the other hand, the filmmakers one works for are also always struggling to finance their projects and not always in production, then what you describe can be an unwelcome reminder to the director that they aren't as busy as they should be. It's hard to hook up with a director or producer who is successfully always working. Finding folks like that is very tough as they tend to remain loyal to their DP's. Which I think is great btw. But you have to attach your wagon to many different producers of all formats to keep working as a DOP. My max output is one feature every two years, I don't want to work any faster than that. Steve Whitehead chases dozens of people, doing all sorts of production work. He keeps a chart of contacts and updates it daily and notes what came of the call, ie producer says he might have financing in 6 mos. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 I've said it a thousand times, but pestering people will only make someone unpopular. P Yes, maybe, but Steve does it and he never stops working. When my phone goes at 1:00am it can only be one person.....Steve. He knows I work late. :) R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted October 4, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 4, 2016 Yes, maybe, but Steve does it and he never stops working. Perhaps he never stops working for other reasons. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 I've said it a thousand times, but pestering people will only make someone unpopular. P Oh Phil, a story for you, I was a 10 year client of Deluxe Toronto. Posted a lot of projects there, including two feature films. The sales guy from Technicolour started calling, I told him I was, "with Deluxe." He kept calling, every two months, year after year he called. Finally I was ready to post the first Against The Wild and he called, and asked what I was doing. I told him I was ready to post another feature film. Well then he throws out a rate that was so low, there was no way I could say no. Just not mathematically possible to say no to. So they did that film, then the sequel, and lot's of other "stuff." Point is....this guy didn't quit, I have to hand it to him. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael LaVoie Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Yes, maybe, but Steve does it and he never stops working. When my phone goes at 1:00am it can only be one person.....Steve. He knows I work late. :) R, How did you find him initially? Were you going through reels or was he recommended to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin R Probyn Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 You know i really have to wonder.. if the guy is working the whole time.. why does he have to call people every two days..maybe it works in Canada... but in Europe you would be branded a desperate pain in the arse very quickly.. or he's telling everyone he phones he's working all the time :).. I wonder he has the time to phone.. when Im working, barely have time to go to the toilet and Im not worried about getting work at all.. I want a break..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 How did you find him initially? Were you going through reels or was he recommended to you? Nope, he was my 1st AC on my first film, B-camera opp on my second, and then worked his way up to DOP. So I used him as DOP on Against The Wild. Look at his credits. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 You know i really have to wonder.. if the guy is working the whole time.. why does he have to call people every two days..maybe it works in Canada... but in Europe you would be branded a desperate pain in the arse very quickly.. or he's telling everyone he phones he's working all the time :).. I wonder he has the time to phone.. when Im working, barely have time to go to the toilet and Im not worried about getting work at all.. I want a break..!! Well because it's never about the current project you are on, it's always about the next project you are going to. And yes he calls me from set all the time, the fact that he's working for someone else at the time doesn't stop him. But he's working non stop, and doing extensive overseas shoots. For people looking for work, he's really an example of how it's done. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted October 5, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 5, 2016 Or perhaps it's something you haven't thought of. The logical fallacy here is often call survivorship bias, and it's the reason that trying to replicate someone's results by copying their behaviour is a fool's errand. I've often referred to it as the Rodriguez gambit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin R Probyn Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Well because it's never about the current project you are on, it's always about the next project you are going to. And yes he calls me from set all the time, the fact that he's working for someone else at the time doesn't stop him. But he's working non stop, and doing extensive overseas shoots. For people looking for work, he's really an example of how it's done. R, All power to him then.. I guess there are those "driven" types .. must be something in their DNA.. it just is very hard to do well.. and there is some cultural baggage too.. in the UK/Japan cultures.. its like pushing in a queue .. its just not really done and will always come over as boasting and would be a total negative .. you never talk your self up.. just looks really really bad.. I sometimes have trouble with US directors .. they ask how as a shot..I say "yes not bad"..(meaning good in under stated UK speak) and they are in fits about why is the shot no good.. if i say its awesome and in the movie for sure.. and give them a high five.. they are happy.. the most successful DP I know personally has never sold himself at all.. his phone just rings.. everyone whats to live in his house :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I've often referred to it as the Rodriguez gambit. Yes I think I've heard you say that 50 plus times. :D R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael LaVoie Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Nope, he was my 1st AC on my first film, B-camera opp on my second, and then worked his way up to DOP. So I used him as DOP on Against The Wild. Look at his credits. R, Awesome. But you still knew him and had worked with him prior. That and or a personal recommendation usually trumps any kind of hustle from someone you don't know from adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Anyway who cares about frigging film? THE BLUE JAYS HAVE WON, THE RANGERS ARE NEXT, YEEEEE HAAAAAAW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin R Probyn Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Anyway who cares about frigging film? THE BLUE JAYS HAVE WON, THE RANGERS ARE NEXT, YEEEEE HAAAAAAW! This is typical of a producer putting their own interests and enjoyment above those of the crew.. and where,s my steak damn it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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