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CP-16 Motor Issues


Andrew Brady
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I recently got an old CP-16A and am trying to restore it to working condition however it has one problem. When I plug it in to ac and run it nothing happens. If I leave the run button on for several minutes it will eventually start to run but very slowly. After a few more minutes it will start to run faster but never reaches sync speed (the red light is always on). If at any point I turn the run switch off the process starts back from the beginning. The power supply is good, it's giving off 20 vdc at 3 amps and I tested the camera with another power supply alligator clipped to the battery terminals and got the same results. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to repair this myself without having to send it in. I'll link a video where you can see the speed ramping up and down on it's own. At the point I'd taken the video the camera had been powered on about 10 minutes.

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  • 4 months later...

It may need lubrication. When I got mine 10+ years ago, I had to replace the belts. I'm not sure why it would start and stop like that. If it's not a lubrication issue, then it may have something to do with the crystal. I hate to say it, but this may not be a problem you can fix yourself. I would call whitehouse AV, they know almost everything about cinema product cameras. I'd give him a call.

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  • 3 months later...

Inside the CP16s there is a memory battery. When this deteriorates, it may ooze onto a crystal module directly attached to the motor control board. It is quite a mission to get at it. You might strike lucky if the crystal module is covered with dried ooze and is successfully cleaned off but more likely it will have been damaged.

 

Ken Hale at Whitehouse Audiovisual may have the necessary replacement PCB but I have not been in touch now for several years. There was a new digital replacement motor control system and rear control panel developed and sold. I don't know if the designer/builder/vendor is still trading or has any remaining inventory to sell.

 

More details can be found at this page :-

 

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=43586

Edited by Robert Hart
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  • 1 year later...

Old thread but I am probably developing a new Crystal Sync system for the CP16 cameras in about one year or so. Completely new electronics with similar style functions but more crystal speeds. The project depends on how much time I will have from other crystal projects and if I can get a mechanically functional CP16 camera here to build the prototype. 

There is lots of comments around web mentioning the leaking battery which has ruined the original crystal board. If nothing else is defective, it should be pretty easy to make a new board in case you want to keep the old electronics of the camera otherwise intact. The crystal board itself is relatively simple so if it is the only defective part one can make a new one if needed. If the other boards are affected as well, then it would be easier to just replace them all. Modern electronics are much more compact and use fewer parts than the original CP16 boards (they did not have microcontrollers back then) so it is possible to do the same functions with 1/5th of the part count and from 1/5th to 1/10th the size

Edited by aapo lettinen
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17 hours ago, aapo lettinen said:

Old thread but I am probably developing a new Crystal Sync system for the CP16 cameras in about one year or so. Completely new electronics with similar style functions but more crystal speeds. The project depends on how much time I will have from other crystal projects and if I can get a mechanically functional CP16 camera here to build the prototype. 

There is lots of comments around web mentioning the leaking battery which has ruined the original crystal board. If nothing else is defective, it should be pretty easy to make a new board in case you want to keep the old electronics of the camera otherwise intact. The crystal board itself is relatively simple so if it is the only defective part one can make a new one if needed. If the other boards are affected as well, then it would be easier to just replace them all. Modern electronics are much more compact and use fewer parts than the original CP16 boards (they did not have microcontrollers back then) so it is possible to do the same functions with 1/5th of the part count and from 1/5th to 1/10th the size

I will probably test making a in-camera optical sound recording system for these cameras too 🙂  we'll see how it goes and how much it would cost if it works correctly but it is a possibility at least

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On 9/29/2020 at 12:20 PM, aapo lettinen said:

Old thread but I am probably developing a new Crystal Sync system for the CP16 cameras in about one year or so. Completely new electronics with similar style functions but more crystal speeds.

Sounds interesting! Would be great to update the electronics in a really nice mechanical camera.

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On 10/6/2020 at 8:50 AM, Robert Houllahan said:

Sounds interesting! Would be great to update the electronics in a really nice mechanical camera.

I have understood that AZ Spectrum is able to make new crystal electronics to this camera type as well. Don't know about availability or prices but probably pretty costly I assume.

Anyway, I should get a non-working CP16R here in couple of months and can then check it better. If it works mechanically I will at least build a prototype crystal sync system for my own use. Probably a 10-speed version or one with user defined speed which is set in small steps. We'll see how it goes :)

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I think that I will build the CP16R crystal update around my new crystal sync generator design which is able to generate speed references in either .01fps or .001fps steps depending on the programming. Will have to figure out a suitable user interface for it though, that can take months. I am estimating that the update will cost something around 1000usd + shipping or something like that. I will most likely build a simpler 10 or 12 speed system for my own use first and then update my own camera later when I'll figure out the user interface for the more advanced final system. The 10 or 12 speed version will probably be something around 600 to 700 USD + shipping if someone happens to be interested in that intermediate version.

We'll see next year how it goes :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I got a CP16R here now to test the modification. It is a non-working camera and is missing some parts like the viewfinder but I will practice the modifications with it and can still use it for my own projects :)

I will start a new thread about the actual crystal modification when I have some tests to show. Probably after December or so.

It is most likely that I will only do one version of the modification which has a 5-digit thumbwheel selector to set any fps in 1/1000th fps increments from about 8 or 10fps to about 40fps. Probably no display at all (it is not needed by my opinion because the camera already has good film counter and the thumbwheel selector shows the fps reliably) . I am aiming for about 800USD price range for this Crystal modification and, like I mentioned, ANY crystal speed is possible to set within the programmed range the camera can mechanically handle. So one can easily do 23.976 and 29.98 fps with this system and 24.000 and 25.000 too (or one can set it to for example 14.000 or 15.982 fps if one likes)

The optical sound recording system is possible to build for this camera. At this point it will be only a variable density system but it should work fine in the uses the end user would need it for. It is not super complicated to build the sound system but it needs lots of custom programming and film testing plus manufacturing some additional precision mechanical parts so it is probably something between 700 and 900 per camera to install it. We'll see :)   The sound system will probably be a design which can be installed to any CP16R camera which has the original sound recording system's mechanical parts even if the camera does not have my Crystal modification installed. 

If someone is already interested in these modifications, please let me know by PM. It helps scheduling the design and prototyping work if knowing how many persons could be interested about these modifications and it can thus speed up the work a lot :)

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I’m happy to send in my electronics for testing if needed. 
 

I also need to find a tool to get the puppy off the outside so I can do the clutches, if anyone has an idea of the proper tool. 1mm hex should do it? 

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