Aaton XTR

chomiczewski · April 9, 2004

I'm seriously considering purchasing a used Aaton XTR to upgrade from my Arri 16BL.

Any comments/thoughts on this camera? Anyone know of sites reviewing this camera and explain differences between the Prod and Plus, and what is fair market value for a used one?

I've also heard that Arri 16SR's are extremely reliable. I haven't heard anything negative about the XTR but I just haven't come across anyone going out of the way to make the same statement.

Whats a better value for the money? Arri 16SR or Aaton?

Thanks

stijnbarbe · April 10, 2004

that's a pretty difficult question.

I'm guessing you're going to buy second-hand, so it all depends on how old the 16SR or the XTR is.

XTR prod is the latest XTR camera and it is not that different from a plus or a plain XTR. I've even shot on LTR (no magnet drive yet) and a part from camera rattle they are great too.

Arri 16SR are great cams aswell, try to find a SR3 or 2.

The aaton seems the better choice for documentary production since It has been designed to fit your shoulder fairly good. The Arri needs a special (expensive) shoulder brace to be a good shouldercam since it is flat underneath. The aaton can be equipped with a brand new 800foot mag (think only the 16SR 3 advanced can swallow 800ft) tha is useable on all XTR-cameras.

Both cams get crystal speeds up to 75fps, the 16SR3 highspeed up to 150fps.

Aaton aswell as Arri are fieldchangeable from 16mm to S16mm, the Aaton is easier. Loading an Aaton mag is very easy, but an Arri 16SR isn't all that harder.

Aaton is a 12V camera, Arri 24V (12V seems better, you can use carbatts and video batts in emergency). The Aaton has the most light transmissive ground glass on the market. It's a fiber optic, so difficult to expose without light meter, but just like the Arri it has a built in TTL light meter.

Both cameras are used all around the world, so servicing and renting accessories shouldn't present too much trouble.

I personally prefer the Aaton ,but the Arri is a very close second choice. In terms of performance and quality, both cameras are about equal, but I like the small french camera manufacturers in stead of the bigger Arricorp.

look at some specs for yourself:

Aaton XTRprod

Arri cameras

Mitch Gross · April 10, 2004

Good advice but just to note that only the Arri SR-3 and SR-3advanced are factory Super-16 instead of aftermarket conversions. Older Arri SR cameras are also 12v not 24v like the SR-3.

I'm a huge fan of the Aaton design. Simple and elegant and very easy to use. Not odd design choices like those I find in the SR (which has the worst battery mount I've ever seen). Since introduced in the 1970s, all Aatons have incorporated a lateral pressure plate next to the gate to alleviate image weave. The SR-3advanced was the first Arri to incorporate this some 25 years later and most older SR Super-16 conversions do not include this.

The cost of these cameras can vary greatly, just like a used car. It is also very dependent on the lenses and accessories included in the package, which can often out value the camera body itself. An XTR+ camera body with 2 mags, a couple of batteries and charger, frontrods and a handgrip should run between $15k-$20k. Add lenses and other needed basic accessories and you can quickly double that number.

chomiczewski · April 11, 2004

Thanks for the great info and comments.

A follow up question on the Aaton:

- is the XTR Plus both 16 and Super 16, with it being field changeable. Or does this only apply to the Prod version?

- does the the XTR Plus have the ability to have a video tap? I've seen the Prod indicate it as an option.

Thanks again!

Mark

Mitch Gross · April 11, 2004

- is the XTR Plus both 16 and Super 16, with it being field changeable. Or does this only apply to the Prod version?

- does the the XTR Plus have the ability to have a video tap? I've seen the Prod indicate it as an option.

16/S-16 and videotap-friendly. If you're interested in an Aaton you can contact Abel Cine Tech in NY for lots of great info. They also may have some great deals available on used cameras and accessories in their inventory or from trade-ins as people upgrade to newer models.

Phil Rhodes · April 11, 2004

Hi,

> the SR (which has the worst battery mount I've ever seen

I thought I was alone in thinking so. Cut, cut, the battery's fallen off again...

Phil

stijnbarbe · April 13, 2004

> the SR (which has the worst battery mount I've ever seen

I thought I was alone in thinking so. Cut, cut, the battery's fallen off again...

nope, I'm guessing just about everybody has issues with the batt mount on a SR.

last time I used one, we spent an hour looking for the nasty little brackety thingy. Long live Aaotn XLR4p Batteries

- is the XTR Plus both 16 and Super 16, with it being field changeable. Or does this only apply to the Prod version?

- does the the XTR Plus have the ability to have a video tap? I've seen the Prod indicate it as an option.

I have a manual for an Aaton LTR (I've also shot two shorts on these Aaton oldtimers) and they had videotap and 16 to S16 changeability too.

check out the PS Technik website to find out on update-programs for XTR's and SR! If you buy an 'older' cam, these germans can tune it into a state-of-the-art modern machine. but be sure to bring your Euros.

PS technik website

Mitch Gross · April 13, 2004

P+S Technik is one of many places that upgrade older cameras, although I will agree that they are also one of the finest. There are many places that will convert a regular-16 only Aaton or Arri to a Super-16 camera, but you need to look at the costs involved. In addition to the gate, the lens mount, groundglass (fiberoptic), viewfinder, pressure plates, and mag gearings plus possibly other items need to be replaced or altered. It may be cheaper and in the end better to find a deal on a factory Super-16 camera instead. Aaton conversions generally run around $5000 and Ari SR conversions a little more. Not saying it isn't worth it, just want people to be aware of what things cost.

Mitch Gross · April 13, 2004

I have a manual for an Aaton LTR (I've also shot two shorts on these Aaton oldtimers) and they had videotap and 16 to S16 changeability too.

Just to note that I personally own an Aaton LTR-54 "oldtimer" with a videotap and 16mm/Super-16 interchangeability.

stijnbarbe · April 17, 2004

hey Mitch,

didn't mean to put your Aaton LTR54 down by using the term oldtimer, I really loved using it and became an Aaton-fan because of its fantastic design.

How is your LTR? I think these have gear-drive mags right? I think magnet-drive was introduced with the first XTR... I'm asking because we've had terrible blimping problems with the LTRs. But they are school-owned cameras, so they tend to get hurt more.

I'd love to be an Aaton owner one day aswell. But for now, I've had to settle for a poster of a XTRprod... ;)

I was rereading this topic and saw that we were rattling on about the poor battery-design on an SR, but surely the cat-on-shoulder of the Aaton is whole lot of a bigger assett of the Aaton. Can't imagine I'd like to do handheld camera with a SR's flat base on my skinny shoulders...

I'm guessing we've pushed 'chomiczewski' towards Aaton enough now :D

Tim Carroll · April 17, 2004

I am still too new to the camera to have experienced the battery issue, so the only thing I don't like about my ARRI SR, is that the flat base is no good for my skinny, boney shoulder. In my wirlwind one and a half day trip to NAB next week, I will be looking for a pad. Seen pictures of the one ARRI makes and it looks really well padded, but I hope to find something a little less expensive. Anyone with any suggestions, they would be more than welcome.

Thanks,

-Tim Carroll

Luke Prendergast · April 17, 2004

357 and a gel cold/hot pack

Luke Prendergast · April 17, 2004

the tape, not the gun

Mitch Gross · April 18, 2004

My Aaton mags are indeed gear driven, but that doesn't make any noise because of the clever way Aaton engineered the body side to mesh with the mag gearing. Any noise likely comes from the film transport and the pulldown mechanism. My Aaton runs quieter than most brand new XTR-Prods. They have to run many thousands of feet of film to properly "wear in." I own a barney but rarely use it.

For operating handheld with any camera, I like to pad my shoulder, not the camera itself. I do this with some neoprene I picked up at Canal Plastics in NYC for $2. I slip in under my shirt and directly onto my shoulder, where it has no problem staying in place but does get a little sweaty by day's end. Rinse it off and it's all fresh for the next day. I imagine a large gel pack would do nicely as well. A friend of mine uses a foam mouse pad to great effect.

I've tried other handheld rigs such as the blue handle system and the CInetech rigs, but my general problem with them is that they are bulky and usually end up fighting the reason that I chose to go handheld for a particular shot anyway. I also like being able to pop the camera off the tripod and onto my shoulder and vise-versa. Beware of any rigs that require you to remove your tripod quick release plate as this can be both annoying and time-consuming.