Looking for Video Tap Suggestions

[Jon Salimes]

I was hoping to get some suggestions on best brands and places to purchase. I don't really need anything super high quality - I'm actually pretty okay with using the viewfinder but when I'm working with a crew, it can be limiting being the only person seeing what we're shooting. Plus I think my focusing would be sharper with an external monitor.

Here's an image of the connectors I have on the camera (not really sure what these are, ha, if someone could illuminate me that would be great!):

 

[Tyler Purcell]

I can't quite tell what camera it is, can you tell us a bit more about it? 

Also, there really aren't a bunch of companies making taps. Even the modern HD taps, can't be used to insure proper focus. The viewfinder is really the only way to insure get focus on a film camera. 

They only make modern taps for more modern cameras too. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Tyler Purcell

[Dom Jaeger]

Hard to recommend anything without knowing the camera, format etc.

Those connectors look like a Hirose 4 pin for power and a BNC output for video (probably SD). Reminds me of the old SD splits we had for SRs at a rental house I worked for years ago. So it looks like your camera already has a video assist?

As Tyler said, even HD film camera video splits are not really good enough for accurate focus pulling, just framing. Especially if you’re not after anything high quality.

Visual Products sell good video split options for various cameras.

[Jon Salimes]

2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I can't quite tell what camera it is, can you tell us a bit more about it? 

Also, there really aren't a bunch of companies making taps. Even the modern HD taps, can't be used to insure proper focus. The viewfinder is really the only way to insure get focus on a film camera. 

They only make modern taps for more modern cameras too. 

Oh sorry! Yes, it's a CP-16R.

[Jon Salimes]

2 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

Hard to recommend anything without knowing the camera, format etc.

Those connectors look like a Hirose 4 pin for power and a BNC output for video (probably SD). Reminds me of the old SD splits we had for SRs at a rental house I worked for years ago. So it looks like your camera already has a video assist?

As Tyler said, even HD film camera video splits are not really good enough for accurate focus pulling, just framing. Especially if you’re not after anything high quality.

Visual Products sell good video split options for various cameras.

It's a CP-16R. Yes, sorry, the video assist is installed and was part of the package (I actually bought it from Visual Products).

I guess I don't even quite understand what I'm asking, ha. Where would I go about getting a video screen that would work with these connectors?

[Dom Jaeger]

38 minutes ago, Jon Salimes said:

It's a CP-16R. Yes, sorry, the video assist is installed and was part of the package (I actually bought it from Visual Products).

I guess I don't even quite understand what I'm asking, ha. Where would I go about getting a video screen that would work with these connectors?

I would ask Visual Products, but generally you'd use a mini monitor. BNC connections for video are common, but if it's an SD output you generally need to use an older SD mini monitor or use a convertor box. But ask VP, since they sold it to you, so they should know a compatible monitor and also have a power cable with the right connector and wiring to power the assist.

[Jon Salimes]

9 minutes ago, Dom Jaeger said:

I would ask Visual Products, but generally you'd use a mini monitor. BNC connections for video are common, but if it's an SD output you generally need to use an older SD mini monitor or use a convertor box. But ask VP, since they sold it to you, so they should know a compatible monitor and also have a power cable with the right connector and wiring to power the assist.

Thank you!

[Tyler Purcell]

2 hours ago, Jon Salimes said:

I guess I don't even quite understand what I'm asking, ha. Where would I go about getting a video screen that would work with these connectors?

Oh you need a monitor. That left connector is standard it’s called BNC. The camera produces an SD (standard definition) analog signal. So any cheap NTSC monitor should work fine. The right connector is power and it’s generally a special cable. Tho I’ve never seen a tap like that on the CP before, not sure if it’s externally powered or not. Maybe gotta dig in the package from VP. It should be in there if it’s required. 

[Satsuki Murashige]

If your video tap is analog standard definition, then you will need a monitor (or wireless transmitter) that can accept an analog composite video signal. Usually, this will be an older model like a TVLogic 5.6WP, TVLogic LVM-074, Panasonic 1700/1710/1760, or an older Marshall 7” monitor. Newer monitors are generally HD-SDI (digital) only, so they won’t work without an analog to digital converter box.

Don’t assume that your video tap is NTSC - it most likely is if Visual Products made it, but there are a lot of PAL taps out there too. Best to make sure before you invest in a new monitor.

The other connector is a Hirose 4-pin, as Dom says. Usually used to provide 12v power on broadcast style cameras. You tend to see them on Sony and Panasonic cameras. So it appears likely that you need to provide external power to the tap camera. I would double check with Visual Products to see what is needed. 

[Jon Salimes]

Thanks for the info!

[Antoine Pret]

On 2/20/2021 at 7:10 AM, Satsuki Murashige said:

 you will need a monitor (or wireless transmitter) that can accept an analog composite video signal. Usually, this will be an older model like a TVLogic 5.6WP, TVLogic LVM-074, Panasonic 1700/1710/1760, or an older Marshall 7” monitor. Newer monitors are generally HD-SDI (digital) only, so they won’t work without an analog to digital converter box.

Bumping this, I used a transvideo on a old video tap that came with a Xtera which was terrible, I wanted to know if a model like the TV Logic VFM-055A ( the 1080p version of the 720p Tvlogic 5,6). It has no YUV but it is noted in the spec sheets that it supports SD-SDI ( SMPTE 125 480i (59.94) and  ITU-R BT.656 576i (50) ). 

Anyone can confirm that this should work ?

Thanks 

[Tyler Purcell]

5 hours ago, Antoine Pret said:

Bumping this, I used a transvideo on a old video tap that came with a Xtera which was terrible, I wanted to know if a model like the TV Logic VFM-055A ( the 1080p version of the 720p Tvlogic 5,6). It has no YUV but it is noted in the spec sheets that it supports SD-SDI ( SMPTE 125 480i (59.94) and  ITU-R BT.656 576i (50) ). 

Anyone can confirm that this should work ?

Thanks 

I have a few transvideo monitors and they're not bad. 

Your camera is not SDI, it's composite. So it won't work with any SDI monitors. 

[Joerg Polzfusz]

Can’t you use one of those cheap Chinese composite video to sdi converters? (Of course, this means using another device that has to be powered = more batteries, more cables and more boxes dangling around…)

[Antoine Pret]

9 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I have a few transvideo monitors and they're not bad. 

Your camera is not SDI, it's composite. So it won't work with any SDI monitors. 

We had a Rainbow III to be exact, and really it was not very useful- very very grainy and was just draining the batteries more than anything.

The videotap was the one included with the Xtera (Aaton VHR 16 I think it's called), I just checked the manual and it says that the connector on the tap is a BNC analog video output yep.

5 hours ago, Joerg Polzfusz said:

Can’t you use one of those cheap Chinese composite video to sdi converters? (Of course, this means using another device that has to be powered = more batteries, more cables and more boxes dangling around…)

 

Not even sure about this, because the output is only BNC, and on the TVlogic monitors the 720P has the YUV inputs, the 1080p only has SDI but handles SD-SDI.

My understanding of BNC / SDI is that BNC is the type of connector and SDI is the video signal. So I thought that a BNC composite would just be a SD-SDI, but I guess it's not the case.

I saw a bunch of ARRI SR/416 that used the TVLOGIC monitors (720p I think), I don't know how the videotaps are made on these cameras, but that's the kind of setup I'd like to do next time I get to shoot on a camera like this.

So I guess for the Xtera it would need a converted BNC composite to SD-SDI or YUV but I'm not even sure this is possible ?
 

[Tyler Purcell]

7 hours ago, Antoine Pret said:

We had a Rainbow III to be exact, and really it was not very useful- very very grainy and was just draining the batteries more than anything.

The videotap was the one included with the Xtera (Aaton VHR 16 I think it's called), I just checked the manual and it says that the connector on the tap is a BNC analog video output yep.

Sounds like you have many issues. 

I use Rainbow II monitors mostly, they work fine, no problems. The grain you're seeing is the gain of the VHR turned up too high. Unless your shooting in pitch black, the gain will not need to be that high. There is an iris adjustment on the tap, which should increase or decrease your exposure. If you turn that knob and it does nothing, then there is something wrong with the camera. It should be crystal clear without grain, even when stopped down. 

The images you posted before as examples of newer monitors running, are probably cameras with HD taps. There are a few HD tap options for Aatons, but AZ-Spectrum, makes a really good one. You need to call them to get in line, but if you get the flicker free HD tap for Xtera, you'll be quite happy with it. I have serviced a few cameras with them and they're a marketable improvement over the standard HD taps and of course SD taps. 

If you don't want to upgrade the tap, you can buy a Blackmagic composite to SDI converter. They are not horribly expensive, you can buy them used on eBay, but it's something else you need to have hanging off your camera and on the Xtera especially, there isn't a place to put it. Some people buy monitor cages and stick the converters to the back, but no matter what you do, it's a pain in the butt to deal with. Most people just give up and upgrade to HD. I don't have any HD monitors, so for me, the composite system works fine. It's just for framing anyway. Even on the HD taps, it'll be hard to get critical focus when stopped down. 

[Antoine Pret]

Thank you for the infos Tyler !