Rebuilt Krasnogorsk3 - Video assist, PL, Super16mm gate

[kato wong]

I bought a k4 PL on his website in April 2021 via Paypal, it's almost been 2 years but i still haven't received the camera. Tried to contact him through IG, Max's personal IG, email, and website, haven't got a response after Jan 2022. Filed a Paypal report but it's  closed because his paypal account has been suspended, now calling Paypal for an endless fight. His website is down now, and he disabled people to comment on his posts.

[Tyler Purcell]

24 minutes ago, kato wong said:

I bought a k4 PL on his website in April 2021 via Paypal, it's almost been 2 years but i still haven't received the camera. Tried to contact him through IG, Max's personal IG, email, and website, haven't got a response after Jan 2022. Filed a Paypal report but it's  closed because his paypal account has been suspended, now calling Paypal for an endless fight. His website is down now, and he disabled people to comment on his posts.

Yea he's a scammer sadly. Many people have struggled with him. I'm sorry you've been dealing with it. 

[Tiago Almança]

From his website (https://www.shtrihfilm.ru/) it seems like he is working on two new 16mm camera models. They look very good honestly, like a new version of the a-minima.

Edited October 21, 2024 by Tiago Almança

[Aapo Lettinen]

4 hours ago, Tiago Almança said:

From his website (https://www.shtrihfilm.ru/) it seems like he is working on two new 16mm camera models. They look very good honestly, like a new version of the a-minima.

the Krasnogorsk movement and the fragile-ish tiny in-built motor are, in addition to the high price, the main issues with this camera design.

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just for comparison, people have fitted Krasnogorsk 3 with Super16, PL mount, installing my 2-speed crystal motor to it and diy video tap and it costs something between 2k and 2.5k even if a technician does the installation. With the advanced 10-speed panel one gets the K3 with S16, PL mount, 20 crystal speeds + variable for somewhere around 2.5k which is half the price of the "strihfilm-camera" , is much more durable and has better warranty and does NOT support the Putin's war effort. That is much more balanced by my opinion, pretty fast to get in working condition and actually possible to get reliably .

No need to bother with the K4, I think, it is a cool gadget but has no much real use because of the reliablity issues and high price.

Edited October 21, 2024 by Aapo Lettinen

[Tyler Fukuda]

Sorry to bring back to life an old thread --- I find this type of design rather interesting but i'm curious for those with complaints regarding the movement and registration of these cameras. 

In a perfect world and understanding the mechanics of the pressure plate, gate and movement, what would be necessary in order for these to run, say, similar to that of a Bolex?--Which is known to have better film registration. 

Regardless of how much money it would take to make it better, exactly what would it take to make it better? Thanks

[Aapo Lettinen]

3 hours ago, Tyler Fukuda said:

Sorry to bring back to life an old thread --- I find this type of design rather interesting but i'm curious for those with complaints regarding the movement and registration of these cameras. 

In a perfect world and understanding the mechanics of the pressure plate, gate and movement, what would be necessary in order for these to run, say, similar to that of a Bolex?--Which is known to have better film registration. 

Regardless of how much money it would take to make it better, exactly what would it take to make it better? Thanks

You would need to machine new gate and movement for it and likely change the pulldown design completely. Much cheaper to buy kinor or eclair which are much better cameras anyway. K3 is ok camera if it is cheap but endless modifications just make it super expensive entry level camera which costs like arri but has only 10% of the image quality

[Tyler Fukuda]

46 minutes ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

You would need to machine new gate and movement for it and likely change the pulldown design completely. Much cheaper to buy kinor or eclair which are much better cameras anyway. K3 is ok camera if it is cheap but endless modifications just make it super expensive entry level camera which costs like arri but has only 10% of the image quality

Is it not possible to add some sort of leaf spring like that similar in a Bolex to the original design just to help steady the film travel? Much of the appeal with the K3 is that it’s very small and doesn’t need to operate from a battery. I understand that it wasn’t machined as accurately like that of a Bolex, but if it can be upgraded in a clever way, I don’t see why people wouldn’t try? I feel like it’s a fantastic base to be a potentially great camera.
 

Then again, my knowledge is still limited, those with more experience would know better

[Aapo Lettinen]

50 minutes ago, Tyler Fukuda said:

Is it not possible to add some sort of leaf spring like that similar in a Bolex to the original design just to help steady the film travel? Much of the appeal with the K3 is that it’s very small and doesn’t need to operate from a battery. I understand that it wasn’t machined as accurately like that of a Bolex, but if it can be upgraded in a clever way, I don’t see why people wouldn’t try? I feel like it’s a fantastic base to be a potentially great camera.
 

Then again, my knowledge is still limited, those with more experience would know better

yes a leaf spring could help a bit but there is tons of other stuff with the camera which would require updating as well and after all that done there is basically no original parts in it anymore so not worth it by my opinion unless making some kind of youtube project to get the views instead of wanting a camera for actual filming.

a crystal sync Kinor2m or Eclair NPR would be cheaper than getting enough custom mods on the K3 made to make it work for semi-pro stuff and even then the K3 would have weak gears and bearings and just would not last in use compared to a proper well made camera body. The Krasnogorsk cameras were originally made for Soviet amateur film club use, occasionally shooting a roll or two and they work for that kind of stuff perfectly well. Shoot tens of thousands of feets of film per month with it and you quickly end up it worn down and full of dust from the gears and bearings and so worn down pulldown that it can barely advance any film anymore.

It tells a lot of the quality difference that I have some K1 and K2 cameras which I haven't used in like 10 years because they are just not worth the effort and time, last time I made some super heavy crude mods on one to see if it makes sense to hand crank them and then just lost interest before filming anything and threw it in the garage misc box again. It is interesting camera design but not very good for serious use unless you use it exactly like it was originally designed to be used for: with original lenses and spring drive and shooting some pickup shots here and there which will or will not be used as additional footage.

Kinor with 100ft mag and my motor is not much larger than the Krasnogorsk and not that much heavier either. It is just that people want to buy a cheap cheap camera and then build on it to spend 10x the price on mods and accessories instead of spending 8x the price to get a better camera to begin with which has ball bearings and all other "proper stuff" in places where the difference matters

Edited Thursday at 09:14 PM by Aapo Lettinen

[Tyler Fukuda]

On 1/9/2025 at 1:09 PM, Aapo Lettinen said:

yes a leaf spring could help a bit but there is tons of other stuff with the camera which would require updating as well and after all that done there is basically no original parts in it anymore so not worth it by my opinion unless making some kind of youtube project to get the views instead of wanting a camera for actual filming.

a crystal sync Kinor2m or Eclair NPR would be cheaper than getting enough custom mods on the K3 made to make it work for semi-pro stuff and even then the K3 would have weak gears and bearings and just would not last in use compared to a proper well made camera body. The Krasnogorsk cameras were originally made for Soviet amateur film club use, occasionally shooting a roll or two and they work for that kind of stuff perfectly well. Shoot tens of thousands of feets of film per month with it and you quickly end up it worn down and full of dust from the gears and bearings and so worn down pulldown that it can barely advance any film anymore.

It tells a lot of the quality difference that I have some K1 and K2 cameras which I haven't used in like 10 years because they are just not worth the effort and time, last time I made some super heavy crude mods on one to see if it makes sense to hand crank them and then just lost interest before filming anything and threw it in the garage misc box again. It is interesting camera design but not very good for serious use unless you use it exactly like it was originally designed to be used for: with original lenses and spring drive and shooting some pickup shots here and there which will or will not be used as additional footage.

Kinor with 100ft mag and my motor is not much larger than the Krasnogorsk and not that much heavier either. It is just that people want to buy a cheap cheap camera and then build on it to spend 10x the price on mods and accessories instead of spending 8x the price to get a better camera to begin with which has ball bearings and all other "proper stuff" in places where the difference matters

All valid information. I think it's somewhat of a shame that other than these people who entirely re-design the same (Such as K4/K5 group) that there aren't any simple modifications that would make the camera a few times better.. but I understand it's original intended demographic as you mentioned here Aapo.

My appeal for purchasing K3 was that it was very low stakes system to get into shooting 16mm without having to dump a bunch of money on something like a Bolex REX 4 / 5... and these vary from $2,500-5,000 depending on accessories supplied. The next step up is like an ARRI S, Eclair ACL/NPR, or SR2. These quickly jump into $10,000 range, and unless you already have directors ready to shoot a bunch of commercial/narrative projects on 16mm, doesn't really makes sense to spend that much money. Unless of course you're investing into yourself for a future opportunity.

So then based off that. What do you recommend for someone who doesn't have such a large budget but wants to future proof themselves to be shooting on projects that bring in money and need reliability to carry onto long-form and/or professional projects? Thank you in advance.

Edited 13 hours ago by Tyler Fukuda

[Aapo Lettinen]

12 hours ago, Tyler Fukuda said:

All valid information. I think it's somewhat of a shame that other than these people who entirely re-design the same (Such as K4/K5 group) that there aren't any simple modifications that would make the camera a few times better.. but I understand it's original intended demographic as you mentioned here Aapo.

My appeal for purchasing K3 was that it was very low stakes system to get into shooting 16mm without having to dump a bunch of money on something like a Bolex REX 4 / 5... and these vary from $2,500-5,000 depending on accessories supplied. The next step up is like an ARRI S, Eclair ACL/NPR, or SR2. These quickly jump into $10,000 range, and unless you already have directors ready to shoot a bunch of commercial/narrative projects on 16mm, doesn't really makes sense to spend that much money. Unless of course you're investing into yourself for a future opportunity.

So then based off that. What do you recommend for someone who doesn't have such a large budget but wants to future proof themselves to be shooting on projects that bring in money and need reliability to carry onto long-form and/or professional projects? Thank you in advance.

Eclair NPR or ACL and arri16s is couple of thousands max, not more. The highest ebay prices are just ripoffs and should not be considered anywhere near the real price of these cameras. One can get a working NPR with original motor for something like 1200 to 1400 price range without lenses and if N16. the S16 mod will cost a little but would probably still stay well under 2000usd. the ACL is a little bit more pricey and the original motors are really hit and miss so I would recommend getting one of my ACL motors for it instead of trying to manage with the unreliable original ones.

the Shritfilm camera is really a scam and not that usable and costs a fortune even if you would be able to get one. It should be forgotten completely by now.

but there is alternative for it coming soon as far as I know which should be well working... Max at K3Super16 is working on a built-in motor for the K3 camera and he is able to cla and modify the krasnogorsks to very good working condition and make pl and s16 mods as well. If you want a K3 built in motor system just contact Max.

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At the moment I recommend Eclair NPR and ACL cameras and the Kinor16 as they are the most cost effective solutions for lower budget indie filmmaking. If you can do with short load mos camera then the arri16s might also do but I would really go with the eclairs if you can just get reliable motors for them. Or the Kinor if wanting to get more affordable accessories. You will not get paid work with these, would need something like Aaton XTR or Arri SR2 / 3 and have full lens kits and video taps and everything, easily costs tens of thousands combined by todays prices. So get a lower priced camera which works for your use right now and if you get paid work just rent the camera kit if needed, then if there is like 100 days a year of paid work you can purchase a high end camera kit. Other people don't have high end owned kits either, they have something more basic like the ACL and then rent the SR3 or 416 if the client pays for it. If people choose you only for your gear you won't get revenue for it anyway because they are just after the lowest price not talent. Be a very good cinematographer and they will hire you even if you own nothing and dont even have a car so they need to pick you up every day 😄