Aaton LTR serviceability and general thoughts?

[Gerard Dalton]

1 hour ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

there has been talk of the difficult servicing of original Aaton electronics and in general it makes more sense to replace all electronics in a device with completely new ones if there is enough aging and malfunctioning involved. everything electrical breaks up eventually, it just takes longer if it has been well made back then instead of being general consumer junk like cheaper 8mm cameras might be.

So the idea is to replace EVERYTHING electrical including the motor drive itself. Makes no sense to save some part of the old system because it creates potential compatibility issues and that old original part would be the exact part breaking up next which is just asking for problems. Mechanics are too expensive to redesign and replace so camera mechanics need to be kept as is.

Of course one could buy a new LTR if the old one breaks but how long the new one might manage before generating issues too? and it would still have the old boring features (only one built-in crystal speed of either 24 or 25 , no display, etc)

 

Right I understand that perspective. But if AATON LTR is really that risky of a purchase I’d probably just settle for a Bolex or save up and get an Arri SR 

right now I think aaton cameras is the best for the money. 

But I think there has to be some Aaton users out there who trust their cameras or who have figured out how to fix problems. I try not to think as “worse case scenario”. 

 

[Gerard Dalton]

On 2/9/2024 at 9:08 PM, Tyler Purcell said:

Usually that's the beginning of a bad board. Can you email me a video info@narrowgaugefilms.com

I sent a email with a link to the video.

Also, I think a bad battery could be the cause of the problem 

I tried using a new battery on it that I bought a few months back. It worked after charging so I figured it’s fine.

Now that same battery doesn’t work at all and it’s ice cold.

the other batteries I use actually hold a charge and  give power to the camera but with the issue it keeps running when switched off. But different batteries vary slightly. 

 

[Tyler Purcell]

2 hours ago, Gerard Dalton said:

Right I understand that perspective. But if AATON LTR is really that risky of a purchase

I wouldn't buy one. No. 

[Aapo Lettinen]

8 hours ago, Gerard Dalton said:

Right I understand that perspective. But if AATON LTR is really that risky of a purchase I’d probably just settle for a Bolex or save up and get an Arri SR 

right now I think aaton cameras is the best for the money. 

But I think there has to be some Aaton users out there who trust their cameras or who have figured out how to fix problems. I try not to think as “worse case scenario”. 

 

old SR electronics may break up too every now and then. I would probably get the SR3 because it is newer model so the electronics are not that old yet, just around 30 years or so and not 50 or 60 ?

Mechanically the old cameras tend to be fine if they have been taken care for in the past. Electronics are just, they never last forever and are not even meant to. Electronic components age and eventually fail no matter what you do... well made ones and well kept ones will last longer but not forever. Electronics are MEANT TO BE replaced in regular intervals, at least couple of dozen years or so but normally sooner. It is just the current situation of film cameras being low demand collectibles that has lead to people trying to struggle with aging antique electronics which can fail anytime. It is not about the quality or design of the original product, it is just that they were never meant to be used for that long in the first place and people just try to manage with them even a day longer just to save on the costs of replacing everything with something completely new which would on the other hand last 15 years without issues.

it is like never changing the oil in your car... you may be able to drive with it for very long time before it fails but eventually it WILL fail you and then you will finally have to get it serviced OR buy another car which still has original factory oil inside ?

 

[Gerard Dalton]

So I have an update on my camera. I looked up a few places who service Aaton cameras and the closest to me was Visual Products in Ohio. 

After talking to them on the phone and describing the issue we set up an appointment for the next week. I drove there with my camera honestly expecting the worst and probably would have to drop it off.

Turns out it was an easy fix. One of the techs basically tested my LTR, saw the problem , took it apart and put it back together in like 30 minutes in front of me and explained all the mechanics. 

Then he checked for other miscellaneous issues, fixed some other stuff I didn’t know was wrong. He seemed like an expert on Aaton. I took a few more photos/video if anyone wants to see I can post it. 

Really impressive work for someone like me who isn’t really knowledgeable about old cameras.

Like some of you said, Aatons are complex cameras inside, I didn’t think it had so much electrical wiring. So I can see how the electrical parts can cause big issues. 

But to sum it up, the techs and all the other workers was all really nice there. Great experience with them. I think all around it took like 2 hours and i was on my way back home. 

Any Aaton users on the East Coast/Midwest definitely should consider them. Ask for Jason and the tech name was Paul I think. 
 

 

Edited March 19 by Gerard Dalton

[Kamran Pakseresht]

Paul is amazing - he just converted my eclair ACL to Ultra 16 - has been so thorough and helpful the entire time and always very detailed in responding to questions. VP definitely gets my seal of approval.

[Dom Jaeger]

13 hours ago, Gerard Dalton said:

Then he checked for other miscellaneous issues, fixed some other stuff I didn’t know was wrong. 
 

This is one of the reasons having an experienced tech check over your gear is invaluable. The average user has no idea if their camera is actually working as well as it it should be.

The guys from Visual Products are excellent techs, with many years of experience on lots of different cine gear. 

[Tyler Purcell]

14 hours ago, Gerard Dalton said:

Turns out it was an easy fix. One of the techs basically tested my LTR, saw the problem , took it apart and put it back together in like 30 minutes in front of me and explained all the mechanics. 

What did they say the problem was? If it only took 30 min, musta been something pretty simple like a loose cable or something. 

[Gerard Dalton]

4 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

What did they say the problem was? If it only took 30 min, musta been something pretty simple like a loose cable or something. 

Yea i think that’s what it was because it’s the cables that he was interested in working with once the other possible problems he checked and ruled out. I’d say it took a little longer but he knew what to look for regarding what was wrong. 
 

Also he said my LTR specifically had some modifications where were interesting. I wasn’t too sure what he was referring to but it was a lot of colorful cables inside.  
 

but my impression is with these old cameras it’s really anyone’s guess what’s going on inside. That’s why like you said, LTRs can be tricky. 
 

the XTRs are less unpredictable I guess? 
 

 

 

 

 

[Aapo Lettinen]

20 minutes ago, Gerard Dalton said:

 

Also he said my LTR specifically had some modifications where were interesting. I wasn’t too sure what he was referring to but it was a lot of colorful cables inside.  
 

but my impression is with these old cameras it’s really anyone’s guess what’s going on inside. That’s why like you said, LTRs can be tricky. 

The older Aatons had all sorts of add-on updates and additional stuff possible to get installed to the basic ltr body when they figured out additional stuff over the years. So there is maybe at least dozen or more different combinations of what could have been added and when. Can make them kind of frankencameras at times, you have to take a moment to figure out what they added over the years and why 😄

For example I have one which has pl mount, s16, video optics similar to xtr, the 9pin amphenol connector found on most newer ltr's but not all of them. And I think some kind of edge timecode system, no idea if working or not but there it is. The body only has 25fps crystal, does not seem to be possible to switch to 24fps crystal whereas some ltr's can be switched by the user. 

Those alone add lots of variations between cameras. There is no one LTR, there is bazillion different ones and it is likely more uncommon to find unmodified one than those which have add ons installed over the years

[Gerard Dalton]

3 hours ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

The older Aatons had all sorts of add-on updates and additional stuff possible to get installed to the basic ltr body when they figured out additional stuff over the years. So there is maybe at least dozen or more different combinations of what could have been added and when. Can make them kind of frankencameras at times, you have to take a moment to figure out what they added over the years and why 😄

For example I have one which has pl mount, s16, video optics similar to xtr, the 9pin amphenol connector found on most newer ltr's but not all of them. And I think some kind of edge timecode system, no idea if working or not but there it is. The body only has 25fps crystal, does not seem to be possible to switch to 24fps crystal whereas some ltr's can be switched by the user. 

Those alone add lots of variations between cameras. There is no one LTR, there is bazillion different ones and it is likely more uncommon to find unmodified one than those which have add ons installed over the years

I want to eventually get a video tap. Other than that, it isn’t much more I think you can add. 

what type of video optics does it have? External or built into the camera body? 
 

does it shoot at any other frame rates higher than 25fps?