'Babylon' - Director: Damian Chazelle / DP: Linus Sundgren / Kodak film

[Jon O'Brien]

George Lucas introduced cinema to a beefed-up Sony Camcorder when he came to Australia to film the Star Wars prequels. He did Episode 1 on film though, to get the ball rolling, then when he had everyone on board and the whole shebang in action he changed over to digital for the next two episodes. Australian pros only seemed to have eyes for digital from that point onwards, and invested in it and got rid of our processing. And our industry started to decline immediately at that point. A coincidence perhaps? People say, well, what does it matter, who cares pass the tomato sauce but that's why our film industry is pretty boring these days. You tend to get what you wish for and what you work towards. If you don't care, you end up with floppy, lazy stuff.

[Tyler Purcell]

1 hour ago, Jon O'Brien said:

George Lucas introduced cinema to a beefed-up Sony Camcorder when he came to Australia to film the Star Wars prequels. He did Episode 1 on film though, to get the ball rolling, then when he had everyone on board and the whole shebang in action he changed over to digital for the next two episodes. Australian pros only seemed to have eyes for digital from that point onwards, and invested in it and got rid of our processing. And our industry started to decline immediately at that point. A coincidence perhaps? People say, well, what does it matter, who cares pass the tomato sauce but that's why our film industry is pretty boring these days. You tend to get what you wish for and what you work towards. If you don't care, you end up with floppy, lazy stuff.

When you democratize something, it makes it harder to amortize. 

Work on film was a requirement in many places due to the low-quality alternatives. Once digital was good enough, the cost difference was clearly swung in digitals favor for everything but perhaps the largest features, with the biggest budgets. It's not much different today honestly. 

[Jon O'Brien]

Yes the money side is a huge factor. Lots of flops these days with some pretty poorly made big budget movies in cinemas. Would be good to get some good returns for big budget movies. Nothing will change until producers see the light. Cinematographers might proclaim what's a good way to operate until the cows come home but to no avail until the money dudes see the logic of it. Digital is cheaper. Yep there it all is in one small sentence.

Cheaper in, cheaper out.

Edited March 17 by Jon O'Brien

[Tyler Purcell]

Just now, Jon O'Brien said:

Yes the money side is a huge factor. Lots of flops these days with some pretty poorly made big budget movies in cinemas. Would be good to get some good returns for big budget movies. Nothing will change until producers see the light. Cinematographers might proclaim what's a good way to operate until the cows come home but to no avail until the money dudes see the logic of it. Digital is cheaper. Yep there it all is in one small sentence.

Personally, I think we've seen the end of the film renaissance for studio production. There was a great run of what, nearly a decade since the Kodak bankruptcy, but covid ENDED cinemas. It's over. They're kaput. As the global inflation leads to major recession, cinemas will take another huge hit and studio's will be reluctant to spend the kind of money they are now on film, since it's an "excess" which is not required for production. 

Sure, consumers and low-budget projects will still be excited about film, labs will continue to do well for those people, which there is plenty of. Kodak of course, can't make film fast enough right now, they're still delayed on many product shipments due to demand being so high, especially for still film. This won't change, even with the recent price hikes. Everyone is shooting on still film these days, it seems everywhere I go, I run into a random bloke with an old 35mm or medium format camera taking stills. With motion picture, I think that super 8 and 16mm trend, will continue to grow and expand. 

With the Alexa 35 and whatever full frame version is destine to come out in the next year or two, I think there is far less reason to shoot on film than ever before. The benefits, especially for hollywood, just don't exist. The negative goes into boxes and stored. There are no IP's made, no IN's made, the finished version is 100% digital, so what's the point of shooting on film? The major benefit is having a cut negative that you can create an IP from and a properly stored IP can be scanned in 50 years without any degradation. Good luck finding those digital files in 50 years, they'll be long gone for MOST productions. Ya may find a YCM separation, but even those are not being made as frequently anymore. I feel bad for the CRT recorders, poor tubes! 

I love film, it's my business, but I have to be pragmatic about it. 

[Jon O'Brien]

Cinemas finished? Not where I live. Not the last time I looked anyway. The UK and places in Europe occasionally knock out a film worth seeing. Haven't seen a US film I liked for ages.

[Jon O'Brien]

I see it like this. We live in an age that is sort of artistically a bit backward and unsophisticated. It came about for various reasons that aren't really important.

We all know the story. Perhaps our current age could be called the Kardashian Age or something similar. Cheap and sort of basically meaningless. Funnily enough this has leached across into other disciplines, including, strangely enough, science, and I know whereof I speak as amongst other things I have a science degree and have worked shoulder to shoulder with scientists. But that's another story.

And so here we are, as a civilization, a bit artistically impoverished, and, to cut to the chase, a bit ignorant of art. People now don't realize the great importance of art in civilisation. Kenneth Clark, writing and making films in the 60s, knew this great importance, however. An impoverished art is a sign of a degraded civilisation.

Big deal. I guess it happens. Not many currently seem to care. Pass the tomata sauce (or the ketchup, or the hot chilli, or the fish sauce).

But it's like this, for those who care and who want to know.

The camera is the fundamental beginning point of a motion picture. The camera is important. It really, really matters what camera you use as everything else starts there. No camera, no movie, doesn't matter what talent you've got and what lens and what set or what location. The camera provides the raw material, which is the footage. Which is the look of the movie. Like the tone of a violin.

Imagine a great violinist from ages past. They really cared what violin they had. They lost sleep over the toils of finding a good violin that they would spend the rest of their lives with. Because the tone mattered. That was their raw material. Doesn't matter how talented: if no good violin, no good violin music. No audience. They all go away if it doesn't sound good. It's the same with cinema. Money guys, if you are reading this, make your movies look amazing and lots will start to flow from that. The good effects will seap outwards, affecting positively the rest of the production. The footage is your raw material. Build on that firm and sound foundation. Don't go for cheap and easy. That will result in a movie that looks cheap and lazy. And who wants to see a movie like that? Not me.

 

[Stephen Perera]

Good one Jon, the Kardashian age hahaha....personally I call it The age of the narcissist.....

I don't think we humans have changed in our core though....its just that, to put it simplistically and as a tech summary, we are all given a platform now to be heard and seen and its natural to take the opportunity...as I am now with these words in this forum.....famous for 15 minutes and all that....its natural, as social creatures to want to be heard and seen....and lets face it....and the bold and the beautiful rule the world (on devices) at the moment.....beauty is always and will always be a currency society will always cash in and invest in and thus those in possession of it will use it for their benefit.....selfie selfie ass ass abs abs breasts breast pout pout

Everyone should read The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde.....so relevant to our society today it's uncanny yet it proves we have all not really changed much.....though we have...but we haven't....the paradox of being human....

I for one am thankful to the Gen Z and Millennials who look to our artesanal pasts and have, in this case, embraced the artistic value of film photography/motion.....every upcoming wants to shoot the medium....I don't think ANYONE in this profession doesn't want to shoot a Panavasion with 70mm rattling through it as the ultimate dream....I don't think anyone dreams of an Alexa or RED in the same way.....

Shoot film? like your Coca Cola, film is 'the real thing'....like Porsche...'there is no substitute'.....when we shoot it 'I'm loving it'.....and we do it cos we 'think different'

(BTW cinemas thriving big time over in in my neck if the woods....)

Edited March 17 by Stephen Perera

[Tyler Purcell]

18 hours ago, Jon O'Brien said:

Cinemas finished? Not where I live. Not the last time I looked anyway.

At least in the states it is. Our cinemas are owned by Chinese conglomerates and they are starting to fail thanks partially to covid. 

[Ignacio Aguilar]

On 3/16/2023 at 2:35 PM, Stephen Perera said:

same in Spain in general...all Spanish films look the same....ultra glossy....make up noticeable...look like they are playing dress up.....very much the Arri Alexa look.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Try to catch my own film "Viejos" AKA "The Elderly" which opened yesterday in Spain in Odeon Cinemas (you have one in Algeciras). I think we did something VERY different from what you describe 😉

[Stephen Perera]

8 hours ago, Ignacio Aguilar said:

Try to catch my own film "Viejos" AKA "The Elderly" which opened yesterday in Spain in Odeon Cinemas (you have one in Algeciras). I think we did something VERY different from what you describe 😉

Voy seguro!!!!! Chapeau Ignacio…..saludos desde el sur de sur hermano……ya te digo que me parece!!! El cine lo tengo súper cerca y es el que voy para ver cine español!!!!

[Ignacio Aguilar]

It’s sold to a streaming platform so it will play for just a week!

[Manu Delpech]

Off topic but when you look at the Kodak Motion Picture Film IG account where they highlight stuff shot on film, there's surprisingly quite a lot imo, maybe it's peanuts compared to digital but still.