Aapo Lettinen

Did they manage to get in in the end? are they working now? are they decently paid for their hard work? if they changed to another profession how long they tried before giving up their film dreams? or still dreaming even if seemingly not getting anywhere? these stories are always interesting examples though one rarely can learn anything useful from them because every story is different and one has to find ones own path... if wanting to do high art then the best film school will be very useful... if wanting to do movies for living then the best contacts are most useful. High art and commercial high budget filmmaking is generally not a very well working combination. Some may not consider all movies to be "art" for that reason, of course they are that to some extent but not likely much more than some pulp fiction novels or generic pop music :P

both of those sound like pretty unrealistic to me both as starting points and motives to want a film career. and the odds may be off too... I don't believe one could really calculate ones chances to become a film director that way. It is lots about the right timing and contacts and what you have previously done with whom. talent is less important (everyone is talented some way or another, that seems to be the reason they start to dream about a film career in the first place. They have some talent and they want to put that in the use and will thus start to learn the craft on their own. They also have some stories in their head wanting to come out which drives them nuts if they don't have some way to tell them to the outside world. ) and the small choices you do on your way will matter much more than anything else. Right timing +contacts + pure luck + resume . everyone is talented who even wants to try film career

those Sony cameras are extremely versatile and have great image quality and also work perfectly as owner-operator documentary cameras for higher end productions especially if you can use the raw recorder with them when the xavc is not enough. Red also works pretty well if you can live with its quirks and even for it not being very robust for outdoor use. If you are doing nature documentaries for cinema release you may be shooting almost exclusively RAW btw. You will really need that extra quality to be able to correct the lighting differences afterwards and there may be very high contrast and lots of gradients and challenging colors at times. Especially on drone and underwater footage but on normal footage as well. You will also shoot lots of high speed probably even in low light situations so there really is lots of difference . if shooting something easy like talking heads in a studio then pretty much any compressed footage would probably be OK...

my regular recommendation for low budget use is Nikon AI-S primes. you need to stop them down from 1 to 1.5 stops to get rid of the CA but you can get very good price-performance ratio with them and they are easy to adapt to anything. more snappy look than normal Rokinons (never tested the Xeens) . don't bother with the ai-s 35/1.4 though, it needs to be stopped down so much to get rid of the CA (somewhere around F2.8/F4 split) that it is pretty much pointless to have it I think. Most of the others are pretty great (for example the 50/1.2 is a wonderful lens and still pretty affordable) and have the added benefit of working usually very well in very low temperatures if needed. used them in -40C without any issues. the mechanics are fine if the lens is in good condition but they are still lenses so the scales are very short. adding a larger diameter gear and you should be fine in most uses.

If you are projecting a feature length movie from real 35mm film you are usually working with at least two larger rolls of print film. the Reels of the movie are on those larger rolls in correct order so that for example the first roll contains the Reels 1, 2, 3 and the second roll contains the Reels 4 and 5. That is the whole movie. If you want to put the movie in one big reel before projecting it you will need to take the 1, 2, 3 reels from the first transport roll, cut out the tail leader which is after the reel 3. Cut out the leader which is before reel 4 on the second roll and then do a tape splice to attach the reels 4 and 5 directly after the reel 3. Then you will have the whole movie on one very big film roll so that it can be projected from start to end without any interruptions. After the show you will split the reels 3 and 4 to separate the movie reels from the same position than originally delivered to you and then you will attach the leaders back and send the two film rolls back to the distributor. When watching a film projection you may see the tape splices between different reels of the movie. If one would want to attach some sponsor logos and announcements etc. before the first reel of the movie that is called "Reel Zero" or "0-reel" because it is not actually part of the movie but is just attached before it to the projection print. This is done in DCPs as well for example if there is lots of screenings where partner and sponsor logos or other content needs to be shown just before the movie and that is done in more than one screening

no, those individual source material clips are just called clips or footage clips. Reels are the smaller parts the final movie is processed in to make the post processing easier in some workflows like when doing photochemical post. Typical film print reel length is approximately 2000ft which is normally around 20 minutes in the final movie and the last reel is typically shorter because not usually needing the full 2000ft to print that. The final feature length movie can consist of 5 or 6 or 7 reels for example and the finished reels are spliced together to make the final continuous print. In case of digital post workflow and projection one could do the "splicing" before doing the dcp and still process the digital movie picture and audio together in smaller parts before "making the final continuous print out of them". raw material film rolls are called rolls in post prod to differentiate them from Reels. the Reels are generally used to mean the finished movie parts and they have the final picture and audio tracks. In case of editing digitally you can edit "reel at a time" so that your movie is divided in smaller parts split to different sequences("timelines") . You can for example do the first 15min of the movie in a sequence, finish and lock the edit and send that 15min part to picture and audio post and start to edit the next "reel" which may be for example 20min or so. Doing the post in this way may be sometimes beneficial if there is lots of post work to be done so that it is necessary to start earlier with some parts of the movie when others are still in editing.

yes still called reels. here the projects are often posted full length but reel based working is also possible and may be useful sometimes if some of the reels are already picture locked and some other aren't and you want to start doing grading and sound work to the finished parts of the movie.

Reels. intermediate and print stock is normally delivered in certain length rolls (normally 2000 feet I think) so it was necessary to do the audio work and printing in the same length chunks or shorter to be able to handle it easily

Yes dry ice mist tends to lie low close to ground but I would worry about it being white so it can actually be seen in the image as well. If wanting to use dry ice one could first wet the grass and then throw dry ice grains around. Here they sell dry ice either in blocks/chunks or small grains. The grains have been easier for fog effects use for us when needing to throw the dry ice around, no need to crush the big chunks to get usable size bits

Here it is almost impossible to get mortgage if only working short freelance gigs like most of the film workers tend to do. It will help a lot if your wife or husband has a stable job like being a doctor or a nurse etc and the bank can count on that when discussing about the loans. Especially difficult if one has his own company or self employed...they treat you like your being a pennyless hobo even if you make couple of Ks a week on your own business all the time and can prove it too. They may not even give you a credit card here if you are self employed, that is how hard it may be. The whole society is built around stable "normal" jobs and can be very tough for a freelancer. It is much easier for a rich person to get through to the film industry...

as for encouragement, try to get mentors you can learn from a lot and try to get in other filmmakers/students projects to learn how they do things and how many different ways there is to cleverly solve on-set problems in time when they arise. Of course do everything included in your school program but you need to do lots of extra as well to have better chances to get forward. maybe 3 or 4 times more than the school requires. Always try to get on set of higher end productions than your current level to continuously learn from people who are much more experienced than you. You will also get more important contacts that way. sometimes you need to do very tough decisions. like sometimes needing to decide do you want to graduate in time or at all or do you want to do movies for living and will need to give up the school degree temporarily or permanently to be able to make a living in the film industry if your best change to get there arises. I personally had to do that decision years ago and had very little time to choose. would work in some other industry by now if have chosen to finish the school like everyone else did.

by my limited experience, working in the film industry is much more about "puzzle solving" than just chilling out and creating art like indie filmmaking may ideally be. Everyone who manages to get though MUST BE talented and knowledgeable of course but one needs lots of trust from other people as well and they need to know you in some way to hire you for anything. That's why there is lots of friends and friends of the friends and family members and ex classmates etc. hired... even if they are not the best possible choice it is at least known HOW GOOD they are in what they do and if it's possible to work with them without much of a conflict on not. I think that doing films in general as a independent filmmaker is so completely different than doing it for living that it is challenging to even compare them. when doing it for work the talent and passion is not enough anymore and contacts and resume and awards and even pure luck will matter much more. everyone who wants to do any movies tends to be passionate and somewhat talented but it can be overwhelmingly tough to be crushed down and stepped on day after day. It has been tough for me as well to see dozens of talented fellow students, filmmakers etc. to never get to do anything serious even when I know how good they are and how much they could contribute if they would get financing and distribution for their projects. It's like hearing bones crushing all the time when someone walks over their bodies. Not wanting to be discouraging or anything but I am sure most of the new persons who want to do movies for living would much rather do some other stuff if they would know how cruel and difficult it actually is to get in and how crushing it can be to ones dreams even if they get in because they see how they can't actually do the films they want anymore and have to compromise everything. I think it is indeed a dream factory... a dream CRUSHING factory to be more precise. one need to be tough and unbreakable or just incredibly lucky to get through. in worst case it will cost you everything you got including your health and still not getting much anywhere if not lucky enough

had some time to read the last few pages after I went off the thread... ? what's up with insulting everybody the best you can to try to prove a point? you could say the same things nicely. people are not ignorant or stupid just because they have different opinions or point of views than yours. Such an attitude also gives an impression that you are not very experienced yourself because the kind of "burn the all bridges, there is only one truth about everything" is extremely common among the 1st year film students or beginning amateur filmmakers who have read a lot of theory and watched making offs and all the classic "masterpieces" of film history and talked about them to canonise them more but haven't actually done much yet by themselves or been involved in professional productions to gain some 1st hand perspective on things. Just saying because your attitude gives very bad impression of you to the outsiders especially because there is no easily available information who you actually are or what kind of productions you have done or if that's even your real name (should be real name forum btw but some users ignore that so can't be sure) I would tune that down a little and try to understand other persons POV as well, that's all. Nothing else to say, just continue the discussion staying on topic ?

If you first plan your lens and accessorie and power choices carefully and can manage with the storage space requirements for the material you should be fine. You are planning very varied uses for the single camera system so you may need multiple lens options. For example nature shots often rely on longer focal lenght zooms whereas documentaries need wide and mid range zooms and the music videos and short films may benefit from fast primes. You can build up your inventory little by little so will need to think what youll want to do first and foremost and start from there. If its docs for example you may want to look for some of the better Lumix zooms whereas for music videos and shorts you may start with a basic speedbooster and affordable manual primes. For example the Nikon ai-s and pentax super takumar lenses tend to have very good mechanics for indie use though the focal lenghts and apertures may limit you a bit. The ais can be declicked relatively easily if needed

We were mostly talking about the operating style affecting the whole visual style. The camera and lens and accessories choices affect always at least the operating style in some way and that way the overall visual style. Maybe we have just different definitions of the "visual style" of a movie or alternatively you are changing yours from post to post. I don't know how experienced you are in filmmaking in general (google could not answer on a quick search) but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about in the previous posts. If this is just about wanting to always having the final word (or final post in this case) then please post anything you want below so you'll have the final word on this thread no matter how true or false that would be :) I'm sure everything beneficial for the OP has already been said and I have some work to do so have a nice day and be sure to make the final post to this thread if thats meaningful to you :)

1. film cameras affect visual style based on for example the film gauge, lens mount, weight, form factor and viewfinder optics and mounting options. On digital cameras you need to factor the sensor, image processing and recording format as well. They affect the visual style in both "technical" and "practical" ways. 2. you can't puchase or rent lenses if you spent all the money you have on the expensive camera body and basic accessories. there is not any money left. that is exactly what I was talking about, read the posts again 3. every lens has its own imaging characteristics both by itself and by combining it with differing size shooting mediums (sensor sizes/film gauges/manual cropping in post) . they have practical usability limitations as well in addition to the technical characteristics which will both affect the shooting style a lot. One lens has bad mechanics, one has slow aperture, one does not focus near enough, one is bulky and heavy, one flares too much or in a wrong way... combined with for example a oddball sized camera sensor you will have lots of potential problems in hand you are not able to control well enough without switching the camera body or lens or both. Even if you can make it work with only single body and one or two lenses it may not be practical at all in all situations. Every practical limitations or advantages of a camera system will affect the shooting style and schedules and budget. Often it will become so problematic that you will need to change to different camera system and lenses to be able to maintain the style. OR to use significantly more resources like time and money and work to make the non-optimal camera work for the project. You can take a two Alexa 3D mirror rig for example and try to make it work for small indie gimbal and handheld movie. then claiming that equipment choices don't affect the visual style at all?

marrying yourself with a single camera system and single limited lens kit mandates you to adapt every one of your project to suit that camera and lens kit. Not the other way around like it should be. and pretty limiting if we are talking the entry level gear like pocket4k and plastic kit zooms and not high end cinema cameras and lenses... Though the last couple of years most of the cinematographers seem to have confined their visual style with single camera system (always shooting on Alexa) and the lens choices may even be the same from project to project. That may be perfectly reasonable for a seasoned DP (and the producer probably chooses the camera body anyway) but if you are just starting out you can't limit yourself with an expensive camera purchase so that you are financially unable to test and try anything else for a long time. People often fail to see much logic or reality in my postings especially if their opinions differ from mine. That is perfectly fine and there is no real truths about these things, only more or less valid opinions battling each other for nothing ?

One thing is that you learn the most efficient way if you continuously stay just a little bit out of your comfort zone and always try new techniques and different shooting styles and projects. If one locks himself to one single camera system and lens and style then one gets comfortable with it very quickly and the learning process slows down or even stops. If the system was expensive there is no money to update to try new things and then the gear starts to limit the progress rather than speeding it up. One option is to purchase lots of different camera systems and lenses so that you are basically a rental house for low end gear. That is very expensive and will require continuous updates. The other option is to just purchase the bare minimum which records any kind of image so one will outgrow it quickly but it leaves financial resources for renting better gear. If shooting other persons projects one can make them pay the rentals so that one can use high end gear basically free. This is ideal for indie projects I think. The third option is to find out what gear you can borrow for free or for very small price and then just try to live with other persons schedules to pick up whatever is available at the moment. You may not be able to do this forever but you may not need to purchase anything by yourself at first. You will learn a lot because needing to use different gear on every project. There also tends to be much more cameras and lenses than persons experienced enough to do anything serious with them so something should always be available.

I use Zhongyi Lens Turbo II speedbooster knockoff with GH4, it is pretty well working though does not have any electronics so only mechanical lenses are practical with it. I know a person using similar booster with the BMPCC4k so it should work with it. Much cheaper adapter than Metabones, here the Zhongyi is around 180 Euros when the Metabones is 800 to 900 Euros. That is basically your only option if wanting a speed booster with that low budget. It is not as good as metabones but should work ok for you. Will still make the budget very tight... you will run out of memory card space and batteries and lenses very quickly. AND whatever you do the onboard monitor will still be required to be able to shoot efficiently with the camera... it will make the awkward Pocket4k pretty usable system and will help with most of its flaws but you might need to get your budget to 2500 or 3000 to get a usable basic package if wanting the pocket4k. one of the reasons I did not purchase the pocket4k (it was also hopelessly out of stock when I would have needed it for paid work) was that the oddball sensor size does not allow very wide angles when using old lenses (because affordable old wide angles are either super slow speed or otherwise crap OR very expensive) and if wanting to use affordable Lomo lenses I would have needed to make a PL mount to Micro4/3 speed booster adapter by myself which would have been challenging and would have limited lens choices usable with PL. These are very tough decisions and may take lots of time to weight all the options to see which would be the most practical or at least the least horrible choice. If you don't have any lenses yet it makes it a bit easier because not needing to worry about compatibility, you can just purchase whatever the camera allows to use...

There is a huge difference in choosing a camera for a learning tool or choosing a camera for actual (potentially paid for) cinematography use. The bmpc4k would be pretty nice for low budget projects and even some level of paid work but if the more expensive camera limits your lenses and monitoring options and accessories it may not be the best learning tool. Of course it may be possible to use some cheap old manual glass and cheaper chinese speedbooster with it but it is still pretty expensive and that sensor size is honestly very limiting if you want to use affordable manual glass or reasonably priced PL glass. I would still want to have the good onboard monitor as a bare minimum accessory. By my opinion those cheap-o plastic thingy lenses are not good for any kind of cinematography learning. Can be handy for stills and as a backup but not very usable for narratives or any other use than low budget doc work..

As said it also depends on how much extra work like online and mastering the deal involves and how the graphics are delivered or if the client adds the graphics afterwards to clean master etc. -not a real quote- ...I quickly estimated for example that I could probably do good basic grade and masters and online for that type of 15 to 30min project for about 3k or 4k if the graphics would be delivered by customer readily made in psd files and the playout correctly made in intra codec, project in xml and the original edit project as a backup. All the needed materials (most raw formats also possible) delivered and final mixed soundtracks delivered by customer in 24bit48khz wav files ready to go for mastering. No changes to picture lock, no vfx, no audio work included nor graphics like end credits and only rec709 output in prores444 or xq. Unencrypted dcp possible but quality or working not quaranteed. Delivery time 2 to 3 months if working on my spare time (thus cheaper and would be nice to try a different kind of project for chance). I'm not a pro colorist but doing dailies grading about 4 hours a day and the rest is other picture post work and mastering so should do ok quality end result. Over half of that estimated price was online and versioning and mastering btw, that's how much hidden work there tends to be in addition to the actual grading work even if graphics and audio is done by the customer. Estimated total work time about 1.5 to 2 weeks if 8 hour days not knowing the project at all. -not a real quote- I'm sure someone local can work out something similar, there must be some cheaper end guys in NY who can do good deals for you :)

I haven't tried this but would it work to wet the grass thoroughly so that the surface would cool down a little when the water evaporates and the fog could maybe then stay a little longer?

if you don't need to be there by yourself it would be much cheaper but that is not ideal when doing narratives... though then it would be possible to outsource the grading job anywhere, even to another country. Even I could give you a quote for the work and handle it from here, I have Resolve and some experience and fast interwebs ?

when grading you are paying for the talent and time needed and the grading suite they have built for you to rent for the time needed. so if you can manage with a less experienced colorist and have easy material which is fast to grade (or you can live with small imperfections to speed up the grading) and you don't need full projector setup for cinema grading but a nice calibrated display would do you could save a lot. easy online will lower the costs as well. But it can vary a lot based on what you need and where the end product is meant to be used. here it could be for example between 400 and 2000 euros a day to grade a short film or a commercial depending on who does it and where and how experienced colorist and what gear he uses. If you can do the grade quicker it will lower the cost and a bad colorist is slower than a good one so you need to balance the things to find out the best option for your specific project. If your project is going to end up mainly to DCP release I would choose a mid range colorist and ask for a good quote and if you can do something for the project to be able to grade it quicker to lower the cost. If you have shot RAW footage for example it may lower the costs if you debayer it by yourself and render to low enough contrast log prores444 or xq for grading so that the raw adjustments don't need to be figured out and tested by the colorist so less work for him/her. It may also lower the cost if the grade can be done on their spare time in longer time period so couple of silent hours here and there when they don't have higher paying projects and clients working there. it will take longer to get the final product but the price could be much more reasonable for you

If I were a film student again I would take a good onboard monitor over a camera body every day. They tend to be more difficult to borrow and more useful than camera bodies and the blackmagic is worth nothing without good lenses and a speed booster which are expensive. So I would purchase a good monitor first (daylight viewable, scopes, hdmi and sdi) and then consider my camera options again with rest of the money