Nathan Milford

I second that! Fantastic people!

Bruce, I've been trying to push the 2-Perf format to the brass here at AbelCineTech. We can't compete directly with CSC (home of S35) and Panavision (home of Anamorphic) so I think we can passivly compete with them by adopting and standardizing a niche format. I'd really like to partner with a lab and post house like Postworks or Goldcrest to work on an end-to-end work flow... With Aaton's new 35 cameras nearing prototype I think it'd be ideal. I'd like to find a Kinor 35H or even something like an Arri 2C and convert it just to play in the format. With the use of normal spherical lenses and a 50% reduction in stock costs and also in lab fees any production that would be shooting S16 or even S35/2.35 and was planning on finishing on tape or even a DI would jump on the format... as long as it was backed up by a place you trust, that could 'prove' the format so to speak. We'll see how much progress I have with the brass, they're more interested in Uncompressed HD. Regards, Nathan

They used to be The Lab @ Moving Images before Postworks, looking to be a one-stop-DI-shop, baught them up. They're great people there and I can't talk them up enough.

Tim, On your site's history of the camera, you might wish to add information regarding the 16SB-GS model with the start mark system and pilotone module. Also I believe there were 16 or so 'factory' Super 16 cameras.

I'd really like one of these! A Pen Half-Frame camera modified with a PL mount.... I'm getting married in January.. I wonder if I can register at the DOP Shop >8P

I'd be crazy to say I wasn't biased, but you could call Ron in our L.A. office, but I am sure there is a vender closer to you... probably in Seattle.

Not really. Upon asking ARRI they will direct you to Jon Fauer's Arriflex 35 Book.

No, it is not possible to upgrade the LTR to have any longer exposures than a quarter second. Well, thats not completely true... you could find a way to stuff XTR components inside it, but it would probably cost you more than the fair market (read: eBay) value of your camera. - Nathan

From Aaton: http://www.aaton.com

Since I indicated it was sub par, I don't really want to embarass anyone... but it was a private owner and not a proper shop. - Nathan

First off, what is your budget. It's not about how much a particular camera costs, but how much you're willing to spend. You can find a camera for $500 that is little more than a camera-shaped paperweight and you can find another complete package in perfect health with a proper maintenance record for $5000. You need to establish your cost thresholds as well as willingness to make compromises for quality. If your planning on making your bread and butter off of the camera you better hope you can trust it. If you want a camera you can trust you should buy it off of a proper camera reseller like Du-All or Visual Products. Once you hit 'Bid' on eBay and you win, shipping the unit to you is the end of the sellers obligation to you. Good luck getting eBay to care. I've seen it several time with cameras that have crossed my bench. What do you plan to spend on accessories? The 16BL is not a new camera accessories aren't always easy to come by, maybe you'll have to get some made (expensive)... what if you can't find a camera with the proper lens blimps... what is the point of buying a 'blimped' camera then? You might as well spend less and get a 16M or 16S. A proper tripod for the camera might cost you what you will have paid for the camera body. What about batteries and lenses? Does it have a crystal motor? What about finding the right 24 fps gear if it ahs the 25 fps gear? What about the cost of maintenance? You should include that in your evaluation of the total cost of ownership of the camera. Also, 16mm is a hard format to find work in and the 16BL is notoriusly difficult and expensive (I've only seen it done once, very poorly) to convert to Super 16. What is your plan with the camera? Is it just a gut reaction that you want to purchase a camera or do you have a sound business plan around it? How will it fit into your strategy to find work and sell yourself as an operator or cinematographer? Or is your strategy the typical and uninventive plan to 'get a camera and shoot' untill I am successful? What market/client are you going for? A regular 16 pig of a camera like the 16BL will not impress a director, producer or the talent. I've seen people use 16BLs on really low end music videos, I suppose... but mostly student films. Lastly, why not just save your money to live off of while you're taking small jobs here and there to work your way up and make connections. Most people rent. It frees them from the responsibilities involved in owning an expensive piece of equipment. What happens if a producer wants to bring you on but your camera doesn't do what they need? What sort of client will you attract? Does a producer want you for your reel or your rental rate? That type of work might be good to start with and get experience, but you might develop a reputation as being 'cheap' which puts a stigma on you for high-end work. Anyone working for free or a low rate probably isn't worth anything as they obviously don't value thier work or themselves. This isn't my logic, but I've seen it before. Of course you're probably talented enough to transcend industry stigmas. >8) But then again, if you got the money and you want a new toy... you can find a workable 16BL kit for $2500 on up.

The 35mm Panavision cameras are great... the glass is magnificent... but when using the Elaine, as Joseph stated, you'll be using rehoused SuperSpeeds hacked up to work with Panavision accessories. I've modified a few ground glasses. You can order one direct from Aaton (and from Arri for the SR), but the demand for the format is very low so we don't have a factory one in stock (although I've pleaded). But we can modify an existing full-frame screen. C'est la vie.

I've had several clients shoot S16 with a 2.35 ground glass, but I haven't heard of any of them going an optical route. It's either been straight to HD or a 2K DI. The Devil Wears Prada used an A-Minima with a groundglass I modified to 2.35 to cut in with thier S35/2.35 footage, which I think worked out well for them. I am working with another low budget feature right now shooting on an older XTR do a similar thing. The Elaine isn't an ideal camera for most circumstances unless your camera crew only know Panavision systems and accessories and you haven't got time to train them with the cameras the rest of the world uses >8) I am often amused when film students, always seeing thier favorite cinematographers (or more amusingly directors) triumphantly sitting behind a Panavision eyepiece looking visionary off frame, probably with a contrast glass around thier neck, autmatically assume that if it's Panavision, it must be the best. *shrugs*

We have a rig here for the Varicam that is essentially a padded L-Bracket and an articulated hand grip... We just mount a small onboard monitor on a noga arm for the operator. I'm sure you can easily rig something up for a film camera.

Well, it'll be much quieter, It'll be cheaper and the magazines will be simpler. But beyond that mum's the word. >8)

I'm really excited about the new Aaton 35mm camera. It's going to be a vast improvement on the 35-III.

Good Question. I'm sure it can be done... Parts are still manufactured/avaliable for the XTRplus so it should be pretty straight forward to tack on the side display and install a new board in the base. As to the cost, I'm not sure, I'd have to scope out the costs of the electronics, but I doubt labor would be very high. - Nathan

The Aaton X0plus was the low end of Aaton's camera in the early ninties (vs the XTRplus). It would look like any other of the XTR-class cameras. It would be from 1992-1994 and range from serial 1785 to 1900. It uses the same magnetic magazine drive as an XTR, comes in Super 16 and has the capacity for screw-in 15mm rods in the front housing. It's top speed should be 60 fps. It was designed to be upgradable to be an XTRplus... - Nathan

General advice: First you should get the serial number and check it out with some repair shops to see its service history. The factory suggests that it recieves and overhaul every four years, regardless of use. This can be a $1500 to $2000 service. Make sure the lens port is solid and isn't loose. Make sure the tie-downs for the battery and possibly the square rod (wooden handle) aren't damaged. Make sure the mirror, gate and groundglass aren't scratched. Make sure the magazines engage and release properly from the body and any catch posts aren't bent on the magazines. Make sure (with a lens you trust) that screen focus and lens focus match (tape-to-eye). If it's off you're flange focal distance is off or your screen focus is off. If the camera is equiped with AatonCode, try jamming it with both SMPTE and ASCII (Aaton) code. Flip the camera into test and the AatonCode LED's should display a test pattern, make sure all seven (7) of them fire. Make sure the light meter is functioning by shining some light in (with the back agte covered) and watching the LEDs in the viewfinder move. Make sure the side display displays mags coded for A, B and C. Make sure the side display displays voltage and footage and that all of the buttons work properly with and without a magazine attached. If you've a crystal speed checker make sure the speed is crystal. You should absolutly check out the current draw of the camera. Without a mag the mechanism should pull between 400 and 600 milliamps nominally. If you can look at the underside of the claw tip with a 10x jewelers loupe and look for any pock marks. You want to look at the claw movement and make sure it is absolutly vertical and centered. If it isn't, the camera may have lost a teflon washer on the crankshaft asdd ing play to the horizontal placement of the claw in relation to the gate. This is a sure sign the camera has gone too long without service as the bearings heated up and the friction killed the washer. This probably means that the camera also needs new bearings installed... possibly the most expensive service we can offer. Run the camera and listen to the magazine drive gears (the intermediary), make sure it doesn;t have a 'lopsided' sound. Probably manifest in a running 'tick' noise out of phase with the claw stroke. If you're feeling bold, pop off the two M3 screws under the base and the M2.5 screw in the throat and slowly pry open the base (from the side with out the motor). Be mindful of the fragile socapex connectors and the base electronics. Take a gander at the ammount of grease on the gear engaging the intermediary and the motor. It should have a clearish vasoline type lube (syntalube) or a peanut buttery lube (anderol). If the lube looks laiden with debris, greenish, blackish or well.. non-existent... that's a sure sign that the camera need service. On the mags make sure the doors settle nicely and the hinges are not warped from a drop. Also make sure the spindle isn't bent, causing endless dishing (happens with the mag is loaded when it has been dropped). Make sure all of the rubber gasket on the magazines is in good shape and that the plastic caps on the core retainer aren't splitting on the sides. Make sure the footage counter arm moves freely. Scratch test the magazines and also note which ones sound louder or quieter. Look through the viewfinder with one eye and look out the other and choose a horizontal line and make sure the prisms and your bare eye agree on the correctness of the horizon. You should shoot a registration test and if, for whatever reason, it fails, submit it to a shop with the camera. I've explained elsewhere on the forum how to do this properly, you can search for it. Probably you're looking at a Bi-Phase XTR, which goes to 54fps. It might be an XTRplus or a plain jane XTR. Does it have threaded holes for rods or a square hole for the hand grip? If it has the square hole do you have a 3-4mm pin for LWS rods? What sort of modifications have previous owners done? The variations of the XTR and XTRplus series are not that great, mechanically. But you should definetly gather serial numbers and get the service histories. I'm sure there is more... but Firefly is on... and that is more important!

Panaflex User's Manual

They could have just used a drop-in dipoter system.

Chooser (I hope that isn't your real name), We have both cameras for rent here at Abel, and it really comes down to what, specifically, you want out of the camera. The ARRI is much quieter than the Aaton, but is also more cumbersome than the Aaton. They're both great cameras, both sync, and both reliable. There are no 1000' magazines for the Aaton, but I actually like the threading of the Aaton better than the ARRI. If noise is the main factor though, I'd use the BL. May I also suggest a Moviecam. - Nathan

Give Jeff a call at the number on my sig. We sell new and used packages.

New or used you can give Jeff a call at the number in my .sig, he should be able to straighten you out. If you buy one, I'll be the guy fixin' it >8) - nathan

$2,500 rules out a working Aaton package. Don't forget lenses and camera support. A good tripod could run you as much as $2,500. Realistically, $2,500 will get you an ARRI S, with a few mags, some glass and a tripod (that isn't designed for cine cameras, friction head probably).... maybe a sync motor if you're lucky. You might get a badly maintained NPR for $2,500 sans glass and support.... but it'll cost you to service it and accessorise it.