Care if your grips/gaffers/ACs know extensive film theory?

[Max Field]

Like the title says: Do you care if your grips/gaffers/ACs have extensive film theory knowledge?

It feels like in the vast majority of current film programs teach far more film study and film theory than anything else. But this presents the question, if you're a seasoned cinematographer (this being the minority of jobs on a set) and know where to point people, do you really care if they know every little aspect of film theory?..
Do you want them challenging your decisions as a result of this extensive film theory knowledge?

I don't mean knowing the basis of 3 point lighting, I mean which lighting array does what to tell the story.

At the end of the day, where do you slide the percentage scale for general gear know-how versus storytelling?

[Satsuki Murashige]

It helps if everyone is on the same page. I'd rather have a crew that cared about the work and had an informed opinion on the artistic side than a bunch of guys just there for the paycheck. And I've had plenty of both. Having an educated crew is not a bad thing. Having a crew with a poor attitude is.

Of course, technicians have to know the gear and the job well. That's just a given. I had an AC once who didn't even check my lens order and showed up with the wrong focal lengths. I found out an hour before the rental house closed and had to drive the lenses back across the Bay personally to get them exchanged, along with the proper matte box backing plates. I also ended up having to pull my own focus on several scenes later on, and have the director operate. I think the AC went back to working in G&E as I recall, which was probably for the best. Nice guy, but he wasn't really prepared for the job. I've been in that position (rarely) as well in the past, and it's not a good feeling.

[David Mullen ASC]

Knowledge of film history or theory in a grip or electric does not necessarily mean that they'll question your decisions, nor would ignorance of such things mean that they won't question your decisions. That's just a personality type.  I wouldn't hire people based on the idea that the more ignorant they are, the better workers they will be.  Any cinematographer who is afraid of the knowledge level of their crew has a pretty fragile ego.

I've worked with some incredibly bright crew members knowledgeable in the arts and the conversions on set are quite delightful.

It's all a bit irrelevant to whether they know how to do their particular job or not. When I hire a key grip, I don't base my decision on how well they know French Film Theory.

[Max Field]

9 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

Any cinematographer who is afraid of the knowledge level of their crew has a pretty fragile ego.

I wouldn't so much say "afraid" as "don't wanna hear it". I'm sure in your decades on sets you've at some point worked under a DoP who lacked certain crucial knowledge? Did you try to help out with the situation and end up getting shot down? I know that's happened to myself and a few others on here.

[Satsuki Murashige]

41 minutes ago, Max Field said:

I'm sure in your decades on sets you've at some point worked under a DoP who lacked certain crucial knowledge?

Care to get into specifics? Are we talking about not knowing what the 180 degree line is, or not knowing about some obscure French New Wave film? 

I mean, if you’ve crewed for at least a few years, you’ll certainly have worked for all different kinds of personalities. I’ve had DPs who patiently listened to my unsolicited ideas and then took the time to explain why they were doing something different. And I’ve also had other DPs snap at me that they knew what they were doing. I learned to keep my mouth shut around the latter folks, which was in itself a valuable lesson about set etiquette and timing. I didn’t take any of it personally. I was working on their job, and they didn’t owe me an explanation. I was there to learn, and I did regardless. Once I got my fill, I left and found other people to work with. 

So I guess if you feel like you’re not getting anything out of working with a particular DP, then you sorta have to question why you’re still there, right? Sometimes it’s just not a good personality fit, and you’re better off walking away. I’ve certainly been there. 

[David Mullen ASC]

I've only been a DP ever since film school. I've done a little second unit DP work for other DP's but generally then you're off on your own shooting.

I'm very good with screen direction but once a dolly grip caught that I was setting up a reverse over-the-shoulder on the wrong side of the line compared to the first over-the-shoulder we had shot hours earlier... and I'm glad he questioned me on that! The problem was that often I keep track of screen direction by the angle of the light in the room relative to the actors but I was shooting in an office with overhead fluorescents with a dozen people wandering in and out of the scene -- we were covering a circle basically -- and I just got turned around after awhile.

There are all sorts of personalities on sets and sure, occasionally there is a crew person who is too free with opinions on things, but it doesn't happen too often.  A long time ago I did a movie where the director wanted a hard frontal spotlight right over the lens for all the close-ups of the actresses, which made it hard to get the boom mic close to the face without seeing the shadow of the mic on the wall above their heads... the boom operator on the first day said to me "Are you going to light every f---king shot like this?!?"  By the third day, he was gone because he was bad-mouthing the director to the sound mixer by taking through the boom mic, forgetting that the director was on Comtek headphones.

I've sometimes worked with other crew members where we've had disagreements, not people under me, more likely people in other departments.

But I've never had a problem working with a crew member who was a cinephile with a knowledge of film history, if anything, the problem is that I'd spend too much time chatting with that person!

Very early in my career, I worked with a gaffer who had very old-fashioned ideas about how to light. I remember a shot where in the background a door opened and for a moment we saw a far wall that needed light -- we were rushed to shoot so I hit the wall with a convenient tweenie nearby and used the barn door to put a top shadow on the wall. I ran back to camera and was about to roll when the gaffer walked over, threw the barn door off of the light, and ordered a grip to go get a flag and a c-stand so that the topper shadow was done "the right way."  For a shadow that was seen in the far background for a moment when a door swung open and closed. On a feature that had to be shot in 18 days. That got tiring.

Generally I've found that the more professional the crew is, the less you deal with personality problems, though they still happen. Some of the most experienced people in the business that I've dealt with have also been some of the easiest to work with.

[Brian Drysdale]

I recall going to an industry film quiz in Dublin, it was the camera assistant team that won.

[Max Field]

14 hours ago, Satsuki Murashige said:

Care to get into specifics? Are we talking about not knowing what the 180 degree line is, or not knowing about some obscure French New Wave film? 

The first one, but I find myself warning for just general safety precautions and they fall on deaf ears.

In my experience of the entertainment industry, getting your foot in the door is 90% connections and 10% talent.. could only assume Cinematography in specific isn't much different.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Max Field

[M Joel W]

When you write film theory what are you referring to?

Bordwell and Thompson?

Bazin?

How familiar is a general audience with terms like shot/reverse shot?

[Satsuki Murashige]

3 hours ago, Max Field said:

The first one, but I find myself warning for just general safety precautions and they fall on deaf ears.

In my experience of the entertainment industry, getting your foot in the door is 90% connections and 10% talent.. could only assume Cinematography in specific isn't much different.

Knowing the 180 degree rule for eyelines is hardly extensive film theory knowledge though, more like filmmaking 101...

I’ve certainly messed up an eyeline or two in time, it’s one of my weak spots since I’m usually thinking more about quality of the frame in isolation, so I work extra hard on paying attention to screen direction nowadays. I usually take a still on my phone of the matching frame to refer to later. I’m also constantly mumbling to myself, ‘he’s Left, she’s Right’ while setting up the matching shot. 

That said, I’m grateful if one of my guys catches it and brings it to my attention. Much prefer the momentary embarrassment to the long term embarrassment of jumping the line in the final film. I did have one recently on a Salesforce video that I posted. I had talked the director into doing a deliberate line jump with matching CUs at a key moment in the scene for punctuation.

Unfortunately, he didn’t like one of the actresses performances in her CU and opted to only use one angle, cutting the shot with the wide, which was on the other side of the line. I pleaded my case to either use both shots or neither, and while he understood my point he ultimately went with performance. I don’t think anyone really noticed, but it does make me cringe when I see it...