new ALCS compact crystal motor for Eclair NPR

[Aapo Lettinen]

I probably mentioned somewhere that I am working on a NPR crystal motor project which would be completed later this year if there is at least 3 orders so that I can get my own money back from the machining and parts costs and R&D work.

I have narrowed down the specs of the new motor enough that wanted to post a new thread for it. As with my other current projects, I am making the development work in steps and advancing to a new steps necessitates that the orders come in time and pre payments are made as planned to finance my development work.

The basics:

- a completely new crystal motor for the Eclair NPR. not a modification of existing motor, I am making this out of scratch

- possible to make if there is at least 3 pre paid orders to finance the materials and research. I can't use my own savings on this project right now because need every penny for move in the Summer

- the motor has internal crystal speeds of at least 24fps and 25fps, user switchable. There may be additional speeds if there is room for the larger electronics and extra selectors additional speeds would need. prepare only for the two speeds because the main goal is to make the motor AS COMPACT AS POSSIBLE for handheld etc. use and every extra bell and whistle makes it larger and more cumbersome which is why I try to avoid adding any unnecessary extra features

- will be smaller sized than the Alcan motor. the exact size will be determined in Summer when making 3d printing tests of the body of the motor

- price is 1200usd + shipping. I won't try to make it cheaper if there is extra headroom, will try to instead make it better if there is extra budget left. it is affordable as a new motor already and cheaper does not make sense for products which are meant to last for years and years of use

- Availability: needs to be ordered and paid for in March2024 or absolutely latest before April 20. The final motors will be delivered in late Autumn, likely in October or November. Prototype available to look at after the Summer. You will get a good working motor which has the promised specs or more and which looks as nice as was possible to make with the budget, it just takes lots of time and budget to finesse the exact outer shape of the body so this is why there is no photos or renders yet.

- body will be either 3d printed or machined from solid aluminium depending on how many orders there is. I will make it as good as possible with the available budget. if there is minimal amount of orders then a sturdy print should be fine and on the other hand would be much lighter than aluminium body

- integrated tripod mounting threads, does not need separate boot/support structure. the main use for this motor is handheld etc. use where the small weight and size has best benefits but tripod use of course possible as well

- either 24v operating voltage OR 12v if I can arrange custom bldc motor drives made and there is enought orders and the 12v drives don't make the motor considerably larger and heavier.

- no shutter parking because it would make the motor much larger, heavier and more expensive. the NPR has a manual inching integrated and the goal of the project is to make the smallest and lightest motor possible for it which contradicts with shutter parking systems

Edited February 29 by Aapo Lettinen

[Aapo Lettinen]

VERY EARLY TEST PRINT OF MY 2-SPEED NPR COMPACT CRYSTAL MOTOR DESIGN. Normally I don't post photos of the earliest drafting but I will need to collect the orders for this motor beforehand so some kind of reference image is mandatory.
The motor will be approximately this sized, so noticeably smaller than the Alcan motor and considerably lighter weight. Additionally I will try to position the electronics so that the motor would be as ergonomic as possible to operate on shoulder so I will try to make it as short as possible which helps tripod operating as well, and position the electronics so that they are out of the way when the camera is on the shoulder.
SO things will change, this is just a first draft which I use in the design process. The design will be refined when I get more budget (orders) to continue with the tests and order more parts for prototyping 🙂
The price of the compact 2-speed motor will be around 1200usd + shipping and it has crystal 24 and 25fps. Will be either 24v or 12v depending on which option keeps the smallest form factor, likely the 24v is better choice but we will see.
I will need at least 3 orders before can make this into a final product. For the schedule to work out the orders need to be placed before May2024 so that it is possible to get the working prototype finished during the Summer and the final motors delivered in November.
Again, the reference photos are just the first very rough 3d print test which I use to test out the motor size and shape. The final device will be properly finished and at least partially machined from aluminium to last in use

 

[Giray Izcan]

Aapo, 

Wow.. that does look a lot more compact any other option available. I hope it ends up being 12v but if not, oh well.. do you have any orders in so far? If it's going to make it easier, I do not need the 25fps option, just crsytal 24fps.. Could you let me posted if you have 2 more so I can place the order too? Also, is it possible to have d-tap and fischer plugs on the body as well? Thank you.

[Jack Amadon]

This looks fantastic! I'd certainly be interested in something as compact as this! Like Giray said, what power source is this going to take? 4 pin XLR, or something like d-tap? Making a power solution for older motors was always a pain.

[Aapo Lettinen]

4 hours ago, Giray Izcan said:

Aapo, 

Wow.. that does look a lot more compact any other option available. I hope it ends up being 12v but if not, oh well.. do you have any orders in so far? If it's going to make it easier, I do not need the 25fps option, just crsytal 24fps.. Could you let me posted if you have 2 more so I can place the order too? Also, is it possible to have d-tap and fischer plugs on the body as well? Thank you.

I agreed to trade some NPR gear for one motor if there is other orders so one order so far but still need more to fund the project.

The issue with 12v is that it needs double the amperage rating from the bldc controller and higher rating controller is physically larger (the small sized controllers are a little less than 3A which is fine for the motor at 24v but goes way over at 12v for similar wattage motor and thus larger controller needs to be used) which means less compact end result. A 12v motor drive itself can be larger as well but not as big difference as the controller size difference. So likely it would be 24v but I will test the 12v approach too if I can make it compact enough to be viable.

24 + 25fps vs only 24 fps is very little difference in size, basically few dozen cubic millimeters as only one small switch or internal jumper is needed and nothing else.

for power connector, I am intending on adding only one connector if possible and the smallest affordable one which is locking and relatively reliable. it allows user making extra cables more easily but the main reason is that I need to use the kind of connector which takes very little internal space from the electronics box to keep the whole motor still compact. Something like a XLR connector takes almost one third of the space inside the current size electronics box which makes it very difficult to fit the necessary control electronics there and would lead to needing to make the whole motor larger.

So likely I will use either a Lemo connector (expensive to buy though which is not good for the end user) or just use the same gx12 connectors than on my other devices... they are not the absolute best but they cost next to nothing and I can include spare ones for them costing 1usd instead of 100 a piece 😄

[Giray Izcan]

Aapo,

I would pay the extra and get the Lemo connection.. Have you ever seen  HAfflex motors with flat bottom that resembles SRs in a way.. How about that kind of design to accommodate needed extra real estate for additional plugs, footage counter and a lemon or 4 pin XLR? If the motor connected to the body at an angle and extended back towards the magazine flat, I would be OK with it. Of course, I don't know if that's doable.

[Aapo Lettinen]

3 hours ago, Giray Izcan said:

Aapo,

I would pay the extra and get the Lemo connection.. Have you ever seen  HAfflex motors with flat bottom that resembles SRs in a way.. How about that kind of design to accommodate needed extra real estate for additional plugs, footage counter and a lemon or 4 pin XLR? If the motor connected to the body at an angle and extended back towards the magazine flat, I would be OK with it. Of course, I don't know if that's doable.

The same connector needs to be used for start-stop connections to avoid adding multiple connectors. XLR is possible if people want to run the switch from the unused pins 2 and 3, non-standard but should be ok. Huge sized connector however.

making a separate "box" on the side just for the connectors would be doable but makes the motor pretty weird looking... if not making it ergonomically worse then might not matter. Using 200usd on connectors per motor is not possible budget-wise (I need about 70% of the budget on getting the outer body of the motor designed and finished perfectly, thus need to use more standard stuff on the motor drive and control electronics and connectors), maybe can find out something more affordable to replace Lemo with about similar form factor. That would be made somewhere between July and August because I would need to secure connectors for the whole motor batch which needs the full budget to be available.

The connector pinout would not be standard anyway so a separate cable would need to be made to use the motor, just plugging in a Arri cable would not work.

Extension towards magazine is possible but I need to test with printing how the motor would behave ergonomically and that any extension would not be on the way of the mounting latches etc. Additionally the current plan is to make the motor body out of combination of machined aluminium and 3d printed ABS plastic so will need to design the shape so that the body still stays rigid to support the camera in handheld and tripod use and is possible to machine in the first place 🙂

But yes, can arrange 4-pin or 5-pin XLR or similar style of "secure" connector which is more sturdy than the gx12 connectors I use on my other designs. Likely can't use Lemo for the high price of those connectors but the xlr should be possible to fit somewhere without making it too cumbersome, it would just be larger towards the right side of the camera with the xlr cable attached.

Displays and footage counters add quite a lot of more work, need lots of space and compromise the electronics and the outer shape of the motor so I will need to leave them out of the design for them making the motor less compact and more expensive

 

Edited March 16 by Aapo Lettinen

[Aapo Lettinen]

More 3d printing tests. I was asked to try to include a basic footage counter and make a flat base which fills the whole area between the motor and the magazine. JUST A FIRST TEST TO FIGURE OUT THE APPROXIMATE LOOK OF THIS KIND OF SYSTEM. Not in scale compared to the camera but you can see how it would approximately differ from the first design. If making the motor this style shaped, the extra piece would  likely be a little smaller towards the magazine, this first test is likely exxagerated a little.

The extra part allows attaching more connectors (likely d-tap or two at least) and the 3-digit footage counter which allows choosing additional crystal speeds too. With the counter the motor would be more expensive, I estimated about 1800usd + shipping . The benefits are more crystal speeds (likely 9 selectable speeds during startup), a footage counter which counts to 999ft, extra connectors and a much larger flat base which allows the camera to stay upright on table/other flat surface without additional support.

These are just first tests and things will change when I get funding (paid orders) and have made more test in Summer with more refined motor body design which could be attached to the camera. The plan is to run some tests in Summer with the motor drive itself, likely finish the mounting plate first, and then build the rest of the body around that motor drive + mounting plate design.

Please let me know by DM if you are interested in this motor, either the basic 24+25fps model or the footage counter + multi speed model. I will need the orders in April to be able to continue with the planned schedule and be able to order the parts for tests (the parts for tests alone cost almost 1.5k which is why I need to have the motors paid for beforehand to be able to finish the project)

 

 

[Aapo Lettinen]

MORE DRAFTING.

will print this test later when having time. Here the extra housing for the display+extra speeds unit is integrated to the basic motor and I would just leave it empty if the basic version is ordered. I will very likely make it just like this so that the motor would be most versatile. The height of the motor is still the same so it is pretty compact. I drafted the one button for display functions and other button for start+stop.

This is a bit closer to the final design but still will change a lot so consider it as a first test type of thing 🙂

The extra support parts would be attached to the backside of this base unit whenever needed.

[Aapo Lettinen]

here is the previous draft printed to test its size with the NPR camera body. This is just drafting and the final device will look different. The final will probably be just a little bit smaller in vertical direction and extending more towards the magazine to get larger mounting area on the bottom. But here you can get some kind of view what size of a motor we are talking about 🙂

I will need to wait now to collect orders (budget) to move this project forward, it only makes sense to continue the designing process if there is enough support to finish the project in the first place. So let me know ASAP if you are interested in ordering the new "compact NPR motor", I would like to work on it in Summer if in any way possible but will need the orders in April to keep that schedule because continuing requires ordering the most expensive components next before anything else can be made.

price for 2-speed model is 1200usd + shipping and for the display version with at least 10 speeds and a film counter will be 1800usd + shipping.

[Gregg MacPherson]

Really interesting work Aapo.  How is shoulder mounting with the common view finders? There must be more space to include a shaped shoulder pad.

[Aapo Lettinen]

4 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

Really interesting work Aapo.  How is shoulder mounting with the common view finders? There must be more space to include a shaped shoulder pad.

I will likely change the motor shape a little when getting enough budget to continue working on it. it depends on what type of bldc motor drive I can get to work with it, some of them are flatter than others which allows reducing the motor height and shaping it differently. Unfortunately these motor drives are very expensive and I can't afford making the tests without the orders in place so have to wait and see how it goes.

the camera's own gearbox is relatively large as seen on the reference images, that makes it impossible to get the motor tripod mounting area to the save level with the magazine bottom surface. So likely I will make the motor so that the motor has relatively large flat bottom with tripod threads and the back part of this area is somehow curved to shape it better for shoulder use and extends backwards enough to allow the camera sitting on table on its own balanced without tilting forward/backward.

it is relatively complex shape to model and thus I will need the final dimensions before starting making it. which like mentioned requires the budget first because I need to fit the electronics inside before knowing the exact dimensions of the motor especially vertically

[Aapo Lettinen]

I assume most people would use a rolled towel on the shoulder and use the camera without separate shoulder pad. Because likely in any case the camera would sit too high if using a base plate with rods, then some riser, then some separate shoulder pad... the new motor will be very small but the camera body itself is still relatively high so I don't think it could be compensated enough. but could be wrong too, my test camera is not in working condition so have not tested it 🙂

in any case I will try to reduce the motor height as much as possible because it was the main goal of the motor project in the first place. modern motor drives are possible to get in flat shapes which was not possible in the past

[David Sekanina]

deleted

 

 

Edited April 9 by David Sekanina

[Aapo Lettinen]

This project is on hold at the moment, will need to wait for more orders to be able to move it forward.

I assume it will take couple of months for the World economy to stabilize enough that people would be confident to invest on camera motors again. This will affect the schedule of the project but otherwise the goals stay the same: to make a reasonably priced and very compact and lightweigh completely new crystal sync motor for the NPR. Likely the price stays the same, 1200usd + shipping for the normal 2-speed version and about 1800usd + shipping for the version which has footage counter and 9 or 10 crystal speeds.

it could be possible for me to make a OLED display version of the higher priced model, it depends on how many orders there is. there is pros and cons because the oled is less durable in the long run than the 4-digit 7-segment Led display I was originally going to use, and oled takes more time and resources so it affects the motor body finishing level. But I will look for the possibility if there is enough orders to finance that kind of version.

Let me know by DM or here if interested in this motor. I can start working on it as soon as there is enough orders in 🙂

Edited April 24 by Aapo Lettinen

[Aapo Lettinen]

the NPR crystal motor project is moving forward now. Will start working on it in June. the specs have changed a little, the price is a little higher but it has slow speed mode now.

 

Basic version: 24fps and 25fps crystal sync, slow speed 1fps mode. 1300usd+shipping. Can be paid in 3 parts, the first part in June to keep on the schedule.

 

Advanced version: Footage counter display, 10 crystal speeds. 24fps, 25fps, 48fps, 50fps, 1fps, some higher and lower speeds. Can be paid in 3 parts, the first part in June to keep on the schedule. 1900usd + shipping.

 

The motors would be finished between December2024 and July2025 depending on how well the schedule holds. This is more complicated electronics design to allow 1fps slow speeds so it takes longer to complete.

 

Other specs pretty similar than before: the load bearing mounting parts machined out of aluminium, the rest of the motor body likely good quality plastic to keep the weigh down. Works on 12 volts.

[Aapo Lettinen]

I got a working NPR camera body here now and can start designing the final mounting plate when the brushless motor drive I have chosen arrives. I will first finish the mounting plate and get it cnc made out of anodized aluminium so that I have the basic platform to build on and can already run film tests. So I will first make the plate which connects the motor to the camera body.

I will then build the control electronics into a external case, first one speed and run lots of tests with it and then starting adding speeds. I might shoot some test material with the work-in-progress electronics if the budget allows and there is time.

I will then finish the bottom part of the motor when having the final electronics made so that I know the exact dimensions and shape of the circuit boards and all the features work correctly.

Will post some images of the progress when having the final mounting plates made. I just got some ACL parts made out of aluminium with similar anodized finish and they looked great so I am sure the same finish works on this motor too 🙂

[Aapo Lettinen]

One reminder about the project:

These motors are preorder-only items as I cannot afford making extra ones, they have so many expensive parts in them. Additionally it would lower the quality if I would use part of the budget for extra ones so I will only make the amount ordered as lowering the quality would not be fair for other people who have paid beforehand 🙂

if wanting this motor, either the basic 2-speed or the advanced 10-speed model, please let me know this Autumn as some of the motor components are purchased and custom made all at once and it may not be possible to guarantee the original 1300/1900 prices if ordering late. payment schedule can be arranged if needed but I will likely get some of the parts made already in September or October so it is necessary to at least know if there might be extra orders later on 🙂

Edited July 26 by Aapo Lettinen

[Aapo Lettinen]

Designing the aluminium mounting plate which connects the crystal motor to the NPR camera body. work in progress version.

This will be the first mechanical part made for this motor, I am using a cad model of the motor drive when waiting for the sample motor to arrive 🙂

when finished, the plate will be cnc machined out of aluminium and anodized. then I'll already have the possibility to mount the motor drive to the camera body and can start running tests.

As mentioned before, these NPR crystal motors will be preorder-only items so if needing one they need to be ordered this Fall and will be delivered before Summer2025. Let me know by DM or on FB or IG if needing one and I'll add you to the preorder list. Payment schedule can be negotiated and more preorders = higher developing budget = higher quality motors with extra features at the same price 🙂

 

Edited August 9 by Aapo Lettinen

[Aapo Lettinen]

On 7/26/2024 at 11:18 PM, Aapo Lettinen said:

if wanting this motor, either the basic 2-speed or the advanced 10-speed model, please let me know this Autumn as some of the motor components are purchased and custom made all at once and it may not be possible to guarantee the original 1300/1900 prices if ordering late. payment schedule can be arranged if needed but I will likely get some of the parts made already in September or October so it is necessary to at least know if there might be extra orders later on 🙂

I calculated more accurate deadlines for ordering these NPR motors now when I know a little better about the schedule of making the cnc machining work for the project.

------

The 2-speed "basic model" with 24fps/25fps/1fps/single frame:  Ordering deadline for normal 1300usd price : 1st October 2024. Final ordering deadline with higher purchase price of 1450usd :  1st December 2024.

 

The "advanced" 10-speed model with display, footage counters, at least 10 crystal speeds and 1fps and single frame: Ordering deadline for normal 1900usd price: 1st October 2024. Final ordering dearline with higher purchase price of 2100usd:  1st February 2025.

-----------------------------------------

The 2-speed and the 10-speed use partically different circuit boards, of which the 2-speed boards are done first and some of the casing parts are different so that is why I need to collect the 2-speed orders first. Late orders are more pricey because I need to get some of the CNC machined parts made when the "normal price" ordering has closed in October and thus I would need to get an extra batch of mechanical parts made if late orders coming in, the smaller batch being more expensive to make per item than the main manufacturing batch.

After February2025 it would be necessary for me to add inflation correction to the prices which would likely drive the price out of reach for most users. Additionally I would need to order all of the brushless motor drives for the whole motor batch by then and they need to be bought all at once to get a good price for them. (considering these factors I would expect the purchase price of the 10-speed motor going up to almost 2700usd which is too much for most users. So please make sure to order in time if wanting these motors to get them at the normal price!)

[Aapo Lettinen]

NPR motor mounting plate modeling done! the 3d test print worked well when mounted to the camera. Next I will get this cnc machined out of aluminium and can start working on the next mounting part.

Are you needing a very advanced newly made NPR or ACL crystal sync motor and have some old 12v Eclair NPR motor stuff you don't use? I accept trade-ins too for up to about half of the purchase price of the new motor ordered. I can use for example non-working Perfectone crystal sync motors and stabilized motors, pretty much everything else than the 220volt mains-operated motors. Spare parts camera bodies etc. are also welcome and CA lens adapters may also be useful

[Aapo Lettinen]

NPR motor body shape drafting. This is a little bit closer to what I'm after, just demonstrated with box shapes. The motor will have a aluminium "skeleton" which holds the camera weight (consisting of the motor mounting plate seen here in its final form, the aluminium bottom plate with tripod mount which is just drafted, the aluminium "ribs" connecting these together of which one can be partially seen here on the front). This way the rest of the outer shell can be 3d printed to save lots of weight.

 

The "advanced" version will have small oled display and 3 button user interface somewhat similar placement than shown here. the "basic" 2-speed model will have different user interface shown later. Start button and inching button not pictured but they will be on the front side of the housing.

 

Motor plate will go to machining next week and will then continue with the "skeleton" and the bottom plate to build a testing platform I can use for running motor tests.

[Aapo Lettinen]

I am now designing the aluminium "skeleton" of the motor body which holds the camera weight. I will probably make a cnc machined version of it in the next two months so that I can run camera tests more easily with the test motor.  I will make a basic 3d printed model of the drafted motor body shape shown in the previous post so that I can demonstrate the current size of the motor system.

Like mentioned earlier, this motor has 3 printed parts but the camera weight is NOT hold by 3d printed plastic. there is a metal "superstructure" underneath the covers which is very sturdy and has more than enough capacity to support multiple times the camera weight even in very challenging shooting scenarios including heavy vibration etc.

I will think about if I can show the internal structure of the motor and by how much without revealing too much design secrets 😄  it will be cool looking system so I will think about it 😄   if getting more orders I may have enough budget to take one prototype and try to smash it to pieces with a hammer to show how sturdy it is 😄 

[Aapo Lettinen]

"But how your NPR motor can support camera weight if it has 3d printed parts?"

 

The motor will have a internal aluminium "skeleton" which supports the camera weight. This allows me to make the other parts of the casing with professional 3d printing out of durable plastic to save lots of weight. The basic idea is demonstrated here with simple box shapes, the final frame will be very different looking but I might need to keep it secret so you can instead see with this proof of concept model how it works.

 

The camera side mounting plate, the support structure and the bottom plate with tripod mount are cnc machined aluminium. The outer 3d printed shell just mounts on top of this to protect the motor, but the aluminium frame is what really holds the weight.

 

Even this 3d printed pla plastic model is so sturdy that it here can hold the full camera weight without issues. You can imagine how sturdy this kind of system will be when machined out of solid aluminium.

 

Technically speaking even the outer plastic shell is durable enough too to hold the camera weight so the motor has this super durable aluminium skeleton and on top of that even the outer shell is sturdy enough to support the camera if you happened to shoot the thing with RPG and manage to breach the aluminium "skeleton" 😄 .

 

I really want to make the motor so that it is not the motor what breaks if something happens during shooting or transport. I will shoot with this motor myself too and will make it so that if you hit it with a car it is the car which breaks 😄 

 

[Aapo Lettinen]

On 8/16/2024 at 1:48 PM, Aapo Lettinen said:

I calculated more accurate deadlines for ordering these NPR motors now when I know a little better about the schedule of making the cnc machining work for the project.

------

The 2-speed "basic model" with 24fps/25fps/1fps/single frame:  Ordering deadline for normal 1300usd price : 1st October 2024. Final ordering deadline with higher purchase price of 1450usd :  1st December 2024.

 

The "advanced" 10-speed model with display, footage counters, at least 10 crystal speeds and 1fps and single frame: Ordering deadline for normal 1900usd price: 1st October 2024. Final ordering dearline with higher purchase price of 2100usd:  1st February 2025.

 

I can confirm now that the motors will have Temperature Compensated Crystal Oscillator (TCXO) for really accurate sync sound speeds and long term sync accuracy. Originally I was thinking of only adding this to the Advanced model as tcxo's add lots of assembling costs and make the system more complex (dual voltage power supplies etc) but I concluded that it is practical to use the same crystal board on both of the motors so they will both get this improvement.

So it will be the most advanced NPR crystal motor ever developed 🙂 

like mentioned before, please remember these are preorder-only items so if wanting one, let me know by DM here or FB/IG and I will add you to the preorder list.