Premium Member Duncan Brown Posted March 4 Premium Member Share Posted March 4 Seems like a good idea to have a place for everything TS-adapter, because there's a real dearth of information on them out there. There are the original Eclair ones, Les Bosher will make anything you ask for (given enough lead time...) so there are presumably tons of adapters out there, but very few good detailed pictures, or other information. For those new to all this, the TS mount is this large diameter set of threads on the front of the ACL, to which a very sturdy adapter can be screwed on with a standard (TS) side, and then the other side can be designed to adapt to any number of other standard lens mounts. The mount on the camera also has c-mount threads in the center, so for light enough c-mount lenses you can dispense with the adapter entirely and just thread the lens directly to the camera. Clever setup! First up is the adapter probably everyone is familiar with because it seems to be the default adapter included with most ACLs - it threads onto the TS mount on the camera and allows you to mount a Cameflex (CA-1) mount lens to the camera. It has the big threads on a knurled ring that spins and fixes the adapter to the camera, the locating pin that matches up with the camera mount to keep it from spinning on the camera once it's cinched down, then the Cameflex mount in the center, which is a bayonet-type mount which allows you to push the lens in the mount and twist it clockwise to lock it into the mount. Duncan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Duncan Brown Posted March 4 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 4 Next is a pretty common option that comes with the above mount: a CA-1 to Arri-B (bayonet) adapter. Using the knurled edges of the outer ring, you can spin and lock it into the CA-1 mount like you would a lens... and then an Arri-B lens can be pushed into it and spun clockwise to bayonet-lock it into the adapter-within-adapter. It works well, but of course when you go to remove the lens, there's kind of a 50/50 chance which bayonet will decide to let loose, so ou might end up with a lens in your hand, or you might end up with a lens with the adapter still on it in your hand! You can frequently spot this adapter in pictures of ACLs with lenses on them, because of the distinctive brass knurled ring on the outer part of the combined adapter - you won't see that in a picture of an ACL with a CA-1 lens mounted to it. This particular adapter was originally on an NPR that had an optional (home made?) setscrew on the side of the stock Cameflex mount, which would go through this adapter and hold in an Arri-S lens that had been shoved into the adapter until it bottomed out on the surface of the adapter, then the setscrew could be screwed in to the slot in the Arri-S mount and hold it in place. I guess that worked? Anyway that explains the spurious hole in the side of this adapter. I'm including a few pictures of the loose adapter, and then a couple to show what it looks like when it's in the TS to CA-1 adapter. Duncan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Duncan Brown Posted March 4 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 4 (edited) Next is an item I recently picked up with a lens, and was gobsmacked to discover is the near-mythical TS to Arri-B AND Arri-S adapter. Lots of people talk about it existing, but I've never seen an actual picture of one. I've seen the Les Bosher version (with its distinctive lever, like most or all of his adapters.) It screws on to the camera in the usual fashion with the big wide bottom knurled ring. Then there is a middle knurled ring which operates the Arri-S part of the mount. Spin it fully counterclockwise and the two little "wings" along the outside of the mount are retracted. You can then push in an Arri-S lens, aligned properly with the standard Arri-S locating tab, until it is fully into the mount. Spin the middle ring a fair amount until it stops, which pushes the little metal wings into the slot in the lens and holds it quite securely in place. (I show pictures of the two wings in the retracted and the mounted positions.) The outer knurled ring, then, is the one to use when mounting Arri-B lenses. Spin it fully counterclockwise to clear access all the way down the bayonet slots, push an Arri-B lens fully into the mount (takes a little wiggling back and forth at the very bottom) then spin the outer ring clockwise until it firmly latches over top of the bayonet tabs. This won't be much of a spin. Do it with all your might against the knurls on the rings, and you may still be worred that your lens isn't fully secure (but it probably is.). It just doesn't have the satisfying final click you get when putting an Arri-B lens into an Arri camera B mount. I showed it spun fully clockwise, which you'll never be able to do with a lens in the mount, then I show about how far I was able to turn it when a lens was there. I guess I see why Les adds the levers to his adapters! Oh yeah, when using one style of lens, the ring for the other style can be in any position at all. Clever of them to make the functions so completely separate like that. Duncan Edited March 4 by Duncan Brown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 You are a busy beaver. I'm sure that is not the standard Arri-B/S to TS adapter that was sold (contemporaneously) with the original cameras. I've had one or two and seen a few photos on the web or brochures. It has a plain, simple front face. I can't easily find a good photo, but there is one included in the ACL II kit I previously advertised on the Fleamarket. Not a close up, but you get the idea.. https://cinematography.com/index.php?/forums/topic/91893-eclair-flea-market/page/2/#comments So I don't know who made that one. Looks like a studious piece of work. Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Duncan Brown Posted March 4 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 4 8 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said: I'm sure that is not the standard Arri-B/S to TS adapter that was sold (contemporaneously) with the original cameras. I've had one or two and seen a few photos on the web or brochures. It has a plain, simple front face. The TS end of that adapter isn't just made to work like the more standard Eclair one, it's identical in every way. OK, the TS threaded ring is a little bit different because it has to be, to make room for the other two rings, but I can't believe someone besides Eclair made that. It's literally their parts. I could see how maybe there are some thin metal cover plates missing from the front, which would make it look more plain. Hard to believe those screws were intended to be exposed like that. But that's the kind of thing that gets tacked on with Pliobond and falls off decades later. Someone find a picture of a known Eclair one and prove me wrong 🙂 (Also, anyone feel free to post pictures of any and all TS adapters here - Eclair, Les Bosher, anything - as a resource for people buying, selling, searching for adapters in the future.) Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 10 hours ago, Duncan Brown said: ...Someone find a picture of a known Eclair one and prove me wrong 🙂 .... This is the common (generic) Arri-B/S to TS adapter I've had and seen photos of. Best I can do for now. It's cut from the pic on the cinemarketplace that I pointed to. The bayonet locks. It has a metal release button on the far side. When Sam Riley resurfaces he might take some better pics for us. One of the common industrial lens projectors uses the same adapters, I'm fairly sure. So that is a source of info, and maybe used adapters, so anyones guess on the supply and demand there. Edited March 4 by Gregg MacPherson more words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Duncan Brown Posted March 4 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 4 That certainly looks like something Eclair would make, except they didn't paint it black in the throat like they usually do? I'd love to see the back side of it. Can we do like in the movies and say "Enhance!" and see it in this picture? So it looks like for an Arri-B lens, you'd twist the lens in the mount, like it was designed by Arri. On mine the lens stays put and the ring moves the locking part over top of it. (Which I guess means the lens isn't oriented quite the right way...not that it should make any operational difference.) How does an Arri-S lens work with that mount? I don't see any mechanism to hold or release it. Dunca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted March 5 Premium Member Share Posted March 5 The Eclair TS mount was used for many years by Chrosziel in their collimators and lens projectors. Chrosziel made adapters for lots of different lens mounts. I suspect a lot of older rental houses may have a bunch of these lying about. At the last rental house I worked at they had adapters for Arri S, Arri B, Mitchell BNCR, OCT 18, Aaton, Cameflex and Nikon. Where I now work has less - Arri S/B, Arri PL, Panavision, B4 (with corrective optics) and a BNCR that I cannibalised to make an EF one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) Thanks Dom, this is going to be a good reference thread. Duncan, The generic Arri-B/S to TS adapter in my prev pic above......Lens inserts to the flange, then twist a few degrees 'till it locks with a click. The metal button that releases the bayo lock also retracts the little tabs that hold the groove in the Arri-S mount. If the lens orientation feels off to the operator or focus puller maybe it's OK to rotate the rear of the adapter. The machining one assumes is perfect and there will be 4x90deg increment positions. Edited March 5 by Gregg MacPherson overuse of the word "little" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven jackson Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) Here's my two cents. First one is a Bosher or perhaps Chrosziel ?? Arri B/S adapter, which I find most useful of all the adapters. Edited March 5 by steven jackson reflection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven jackson Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) And this one is a Nikon F adapter. I'm not sure if it's a factory model or not. Both the Arri and the Nikon F are very well made. Edited March 5 by steven jackson spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Duncan Brown Posted March 5 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 5 Now we're talking! Pictures galore! Near as I can tell from Chrosziel's website, their collimators now just come with a PL mount or something that looks a lot like it, then they have adapters from that to all sort of mounts. Guess it makes sense given the lens market these days. More ebay searches to set up... 🙂 Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Kamran Pakseresht Posted March 5 Premium Member Share Posted March 5 (edited) It's great you started a thread about this! I recently have been working on reverse engineering some of these adapters. Here is the official US patent for the mount for those interested: https://ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/3682069 I was very motivated to create an adapter for Micro Four Thirds lenses but after actually starting to calculate it and model it - it's just not possible, there is not enough room. I think there is a possibility of a mod - where you remove the 6 screws holding the TS camera mount to the camera body and replace it with a Micro Four Thirds mount - but I will need to get a cheap/parts only ACL to test this on. I did make a 3d printable model of a cap that fits the TS mount as a starting point to all of this work - you can find it here. What type of lens mount adapters do you think are the most useful/would you most like to see? Edited March 5 by Kamran Pakseresht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven jackson Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 7 minutes ago, Kamran Pakseresht said: It's great you started a thread about this! I recently have been working on reverse engineering some of these adapters. Here is the official US patent for the mount for those interested: https://ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/3682069 I was very motivated to create an adapter for Micro Four Thirds lenses but after actually starting to calculate it and model it - it's just not possible, there is not enough room. I think there is a possibility of a mod - where you remove the 6 screws holding the TS camera mount to the camera body and replace it with a Micro Four Thirds mount - but I will need to get a cheap/parts only ACL to test this on. I did make a 3d printable model of a cap that fits the TS mount as a starting point to all of this work - you can find it here. What type of lens mount adapters do you think are the most useful/would you most like to see? For me, the Arri B/Standard mount is the one I use the most, but I'm sure a PL mount would be welcome as well. Good luck on the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Duncan Brown Posted March 5 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 5 54 minutes ago, Kamran Pakseresht said: It's great you started a thread about this! I recently have been working on reverse engineering some of these adapters. Here is the official US patent for the mount for those interested: https://ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloadPdf/3682069 I was very motivated to create an adapter for Micro Four Thirds lenses but after actually starting to calculate it and model it - it's just not possible, there is not enough room. I think there is a possibility of a mod - where you remove the 6 screws holding the TS camera mount to the camera body and replace it with a Micro Four Thirds mount - but I will need to get a cheap/parts only ACL to test this on. I did make a 3d printable model of a cap that fits the TS mount as a starting point to all of this work - you can find it here. What type of lens mount adapters do you think are the most useful/would you most like to see? Very interesting info! As Steven said, PL mount is a no-brainer. I'm a Canon FD fan myself, but you'd probably only sell one of them (to me.) Any of the other common mounts - Nikon F, Canon EF, Arri-B/S, etc - would be sought after if you can beat the price and turnaround time of Les Bosher. (The latter might not be so hard...) Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geffen Avraham Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 CP-16 to TS would be great for me - as would OCT-18. Although maybe I should just send my old Lomos to be rehoused already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geffen Avraham Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 (edited) Does anyone know what the mechanical details of the threads on this mount are? Edited March 9 by Geffen Avraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Kamran Pakseresht Posted March 11 Premium Member Share Posted March 11 On 3/9/2024 at 1:23 AM, Geffen Avraham said: Does anyone know what the mechanical details of the threads on this mount are? Based on measuring the threads and experimenting with the sizes until I reached a lens cap that screwed on smoothly without excessive friction - the specs in onshape for my cap threads (the inner threads that can thread onto this mount) are: Pitch: 1mm Threads Per Inch: 25.4 The diameter of the cylinder that I ran these threads on was: 52.5mm If you read the patent - it suggest the mount is basically just a c-mount with twice the diameter (2 inches) and the same thread pitch - but while the diameter might be accurate - I'm not so sure about the thread pitch as I seemed to arrive at different results from the patent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven jackson Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Adding to this list. Mine is the same as Duncan's except for the addition of the little wings to help tighten it down on the bayonet mount. The inner ring is for tightening down to Arri standard mount. I reckon this is a factory mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Duncan Brown Posted October 2 Author Premium Member Share Posted October 2 5 hours ago, steven jackson said: Adding to this list. Mine is the same as Duncan's except for the addition of the little wings to help tighten it down on the bayonet mount. The inner ring is for tightening down to Arri standard mount. I reckon this is a factory mount. The wings vs knurled ring is definitely an improvement, so maybe yours was a later version. Exposed screws on the face of it just like mine, so I guess that's just how they did it. Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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