Freedom Of Expression

[Guest]

Since we all work in a industry that is 100% reliant on constitutional protections to allow us to create the films we want to make, and say the things we want to say. I'm sure many here are shocked by what the US gov't has been up to lately, I know I am. The headlines from the USA sound like some thing out of Animal Farm or 1984.

 

First the gov't is found to be conducting wire taps on US citizens without the required judges approval, next 60 Minutes reveals that the feds are opening people's mail, and now the gov't wants Google to provide them with information on what people search for!

 

I mean this is really incredible, and it's happening in the USA, the country that lectures every one else about "freedom and liberty." I could see this sort of thing happening in a few other democracies, but the US? Are the headlines wrong?

 

The American people don't seem to upset about the whole affair. If the gov't continues down this road where will end? Cameras in the bedrooms of Americans that link to the CIA and NSA headquarters?

 

Those of us who live outside of the USA should be concerned also, as other governments may see what the US is doing as a license to do it in their own countries.

 

R,

[Alex Ellerman]

Richard - have you seen what they're doing in the UK with surveillance cameras and linking them up? from bridges, to gas stations, etc... that's coming here eventually.

 

gives me the chills.

[Guest]

"Richard - have you seen what they're doing in the UK with surveillance cameras and linking them up? from bridges, to gas stations, etc... that's coming here eventually."

 

But isn't there a difference between surveillance cameras in public spaces, and electronic evesdropping and letter opening, etc etc?

 

R,

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Read up on what the US government is doing to Google.

 

Then consider how your search history could be misconstrued, because let's face it, the US government must by now have organised a Department of Misconstruction.

 

And now they're damn near in charge of my country as well.

 

Phil

[Michael Collier]

Its just the administration (from what I can tell) Americans are put in a position when Cheney says your for wire taps or your for terrorism. Its ludicris, but in the emotional state people are in, I can see a lot of people not caring about taps and mail, because they arent terrorist.

 

Eventually it will cause a problem, but for now its mostly a topic people dont like to debate. Thank god there are senetors pushing for independant investigation (even prominent republicans, so you know they will eventually have them) scandal just takes longer in America when it concerns the president.

 

Cheney says he is for expanding presidential powers to near-dictator level. Obviously a court will have to step in and limit them at some point. In the end in 2008 a democrat will be elected and most of the changes we have seen over the last 8 years will be rolled back.

 

Its bad now, but things will get better. Hopefully in the future we will not elect such a poorly qualified person as president. Forget credentials and school and intelect, the guy was a coke-fiend, drug addict, alcoholic short tempered individual. Mix that with a born again christian attitude, which when the appiphany to be reborn comes out of drug and alcohol addiction, and an altamatum from your wife to clean up or get out, and you get a person who quickly follows ideals and hypotheticals, and never really seeks to address problems with understanding of the actuallities.

 

anyway 2 years

[Jamie Metzger]

Terrorism: is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/teach/alqaeda/glossary.html

 

Our government has goals and agenda's, and they are definately scaring and terrorising us into thinking we are safe, by offering a little less freedom.

[David Mullen ASC]

Our government has goals and agenda's, and they are definately scaring and terrorising us into thinking we are safe, by offering a little less freedom.

 

Can one be scared into feeling safe?

 

One is always reminded of Ben Franklin's saying: "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

[Ahjudah]

Can one be scared into feeling safe?

 

One is always reminded of Ben Franklin's saying: "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."

 

 

I don't know what's worse. The massively immoral actions of the government, or the fact that nobody seems to know or care. I can't fight the feeling that in 40 years I'll be trying to explain to my grandchildren why none of us did a damn thing to stop it.

 

Jon Barr

Film Student

Philadelphia, PA

[David Mullen ASC]

I can't fight the feeling that in 40 years I'll be trying to explain to my grandchildren why none of us did a damn thing to stop it.

 

I'm sure some people felt the same way during McCarthy's UnAmerican Activities Committee witch hunts. Back then, it was fear of the Soviets instead of terrorists. In fact, it seems to me that a lot of people who fought in the Cold War are the same ones pushing the War On Terror.

 

It all feels rather Orwellian, this use of a vague eternal enemy as a means of consolidating power.

 

Half the country voted against the current admistration, so I hardly think the public is 100% behind the actions of President Bush. The main problem is that the opposition hasn't fronted any strong-enough candidates who have more to commend them that the mere fact that they aren't George Bush, so in the absense of viable alternatives, the general public would rather stick to the devil they know.

[Jamie Metzger]

I'm sure some people felt the same way during McCarthy's UnAmerican Activities Committee witch hunts. Back then, it was fear of the Soviets instead of terrorists. In fact, it seems to me that a lot of people who fought in the Cold War are the same ones pushing the War On Terror.

 

It all feels rather Orwellian, this use of a vague eternal enemy as a means of consolidating power.

 

Half the country voted against the current admistration, so I hardly think the public is 100% behind the actions of President Bush. The main problem is that the opposition hasn't fronted any strong-enough candidates who have more to commend them that the mere fact that they aren't George Bush, so in the absense of viable alternatives, the general public would rather stick to the devil they know.

 

 

I think your last statement was a little offtopic.

 

I agree with the orwellian statement though. I feel so useless at times. Making movies with a political drive doesn't do anything (Goodnight and Goodluck; great film, but hasn't "accomplished anything"), Munich, and (ugh) Michael Moore Docs.

 

What can one do, when the government will jail, or accuse you of being a traitor, is you are against their plans.

 

I've been trying to read "Natural cures that 'they' don't want you to know about"... anyone finding a natural cure for anything, get's accused of practicing medicine without a liscense, to protect the drug industry. It's sick, and it's immoral.

[Nick Mulder]

Those of us who live outside of the USA should be concerned also, as other governments may see what the US is doing as a license to do it in their own countries.

 

Concerned more that the US will licence themselves to do it in our countries ...

[Josh Bass]

"I've been trying to read "Natural cures that 'they' don't want you to know about"... anyone finding a natural cure for anything, get's accused of practicing medicine without a liscense, to protect the drug industry. It's sick, and it's immoral."

 

Sorry, but I don't trust that guy for poop (Trudeau). A)He's on a ton of infomercials, so there goes his credibility right there, and he's been implicated in at least one scam or other (don't remember the details--was on the Daily Show).

[Bob Hayes]

These secret wiretaps with out accountability are exactly the same thing the USSR was doing. It is the behavior of a totalitarian regime. And its main goal is to keep itself in power and enrich its friends. Watch as the list of ?terrorist? groups expands to environmental groups, labor groups, and human rights organizations.

[Tim J Durham]

The American people don't seem to upset about the whole affair. If the gov't continues down this road where will end? Cameras in the bedrooms of Americans that link to the CIA and NSA headquarters?

 

R,

I don't know who you've been talking to but I hear about something nearly every day about this bunch of cheap crooks that makes me want to flail myself. Maybe even worse than what they do are the legions of lemming apologists who apparently will go to whatever lengths required to rationalize every single infraction, no mattter how aggregious.

 

These are dangerous days. Many are complacent in the belief that these Neocon vampires will be swept out of office in 2006 (the congress) or 2008 (the chimp himself) but after hearing the CEO of Diebold (the company that builds our new electronic voting machines) say he was gonna deliver Ohio for Bush in 2004, I worry that our election process has become subject to wide-scale manipulation.

 

There's just too much money to be made by keeping this "War on Terror" going. If we don't sweep them out in 2006, get a Democrat majority in congress, and impeach Bush, this country is in big trouble. And I'm not just being dramatic. We'll know by November, folks.

 

Al Gore gave a very important speech on Monday. You may not have heard much about it but it was the opening salvo. Stay tuned.

[Trevor Greenfield]

I don't know who you've been talking to but I hear about something nearly every day about this bunch of cheap crooks that makes me want to flail myself. Maybe even worse than what they do are the legions of lemming apologists who apparently will go to whatever lengths required to rationalize every single infraction, no mattter how aggregious.

 

These are dangerous days. Many are complacent in the belief that these Neocon vampires will be swept out of office in 2006 (the congress) or 2008 (the chimp himself) but after hearing the CEO of Diebold (the company that builds our new electronic voting machines) say he was gonna deliver Ohio for Bush in 2004, I worry that our election process has become subject to wide-scale manipulation.

 

There's just too much money to be made by keeping this "War on Terror" going. If we don't sweep them out in 2006, get a Democrat majority in congress, and impeach Bush, this country is in big trouble. And I'm not just being dramatic. We'll know by November, folks.

 

Al Gore gave a very important speech on Monday. You may not have heard much about it but it was the opening salvo. Stay tuned.

 

The reason I don't like talking politics at a party or on the internet, especially with my name attached, is because its not worth it. All you're doing is throwing your contreversial opinion out there for anyone to read and you never know who might read it and be turned off by it. Considering if you type someone who posts here's name into google and cinematography.com postings show up, you might want to take that into consideration - you never know whom you might be offending whether they be producers, directors, talent, or even just casual fans of your work.

[Tim J Durham]

The reason I don't like talking politics at a party or on the internet, especially with my name attached, is because its not worth it. All you're doing is throwing your contreversial opinion out there for anyone to read and you never know who might read it and be turned off by it. Considering if you type someone who posts here's name into google and cinematography.com postings show up, you might want to take that into consideration - you never know whom you might be offending whether they be producers, directors, talent, or even just casual fans of your work.

 

Yes, there are plenty of people who would cower in the shadows afraid to speak up while thieves loot them of

everything they've worked for and believe in. If people are offended by those willing to speak up when most stay silent, I have two words for them:

 

Tough poop

 

I'll say it on the internet, in churches, in bars and in the public square. This bunch needs to go.

 

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,

habe ich geschwiegen;

ich war ja kein Kommunist.

 

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,

habe ich geschwiegen;

ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

 

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,

habe ich nicht protestiert;

ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

 

Als sie die Juden holten,

habe ich nicht protestiert;

ich war ja kein Jude.

 

Als sie mich holten,

gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte.

-Martin Niemöller (1892-1984)

[Trevor Greenfield]

Actually, I didn't mean to quote you and didnt realize I did it until after but its all the same. I wasn't trying to make an example out of you. I don't read German but I get the gist of it, I think. Personally, I want friends and co-workers that are friendly and helpful and focused on their work and not political activists using the world as their soap box, and was trying to get that point across in case some hadn't considered the visibility they have on this forum. I would imagine in this day and age most individuals are investigative enough to research over the internet potential cast and crew. Obviously, you don't care, or at least dont care what anyone thinks of your political views or activism, so disreguard this message.

Edited January 22, 2006 by Trevor Greenfield

[Tim J Durham]

Actually, I didn't mean to quote you and didnt realize I did it until after but its all the same. I wasn't trying to make an example out of you. I don't read German but I get the gist of it, I think. Personally, I want friends and co-workers that are friendly and helpful and focused on their work and not political activists using the world as their soap box, and was trying to get that point across in case some hadn't considered the visibility they have on this forum. I would imagine in this day and age most individuals are investigative enough to research over the internet potential cast and crew. Obviously, you don't care, or at least dont care what anyone thinks of your political views or activism, so disreguard this message.

A question was asked by a friendly neighbor to our north. I happen to love Canada. I lived next door to it most of my life in Michigan and spent many happy summers on the Canadian shores of Lake Superior and Huron. So Canadians are now asking "what the hell is going on down there? Why isn't anyone speaking up?" And it's a good question. You want friends and co-workers who are focused on their work and whistlingly ignorant of, or afraid to speak up about, what's going on in this country. Good for you.

 

I didn't ask for a soapbox. But the question was asked and I answered. What about you? If you say people should hold their tongue because they might be seen or heard, I say that's when people MUST speak up. Suggesting I don't care? We apparently have different cares. If I was looking to hire someone and found out they were ignorant of what is going on or worse, supported it, I'd have no interest in working with or for them.

 

The reason I don't like talking politics at a party or on the internet, especially with my name attached, is because its not worth it. All you're doing is throwing your contreversial opinion out there for anyone to read and you never know who might read it...

 

You said it. Doesn't this statement worry you?

[Dan Goulder]

These are dangerous days. Many are complacent in the belief that these Neocon vampires will be swept out of office in 2006 (the congress) or 2008 (the chimp himself)

C'mon, man...You're insulting an entire species!

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

VIVA ELIA KAZAN !!!! :lol:

[Alex Ellerman]

Tag on this... cheney just shot a guy, and didn't have a hunting stamp at the time... so he has disregard for human life and can't follow the law?

 

doesn't this nicely mirror his asking congress for permission to torture people (human life) and his illegal wiretaps (unlawful?)

I'm just saying...

micro and macro...

 

Cheney Apparently Breaks Key Hunting Rule

Edited February 14, 2006 by theturnaround

[David Sweetman]

It's perfectly normal to fire laterally while hunting quail(ground dwellers) on a private hunting ground when you're with your private hunting party of whom you would expect one -- when rejoining the group -- to announce his presence as he approached.

 

Plus it was only birdshot.

 

Can't speak for the hunting stamp though, but hey, give him a break, he's the vice president. (...don't reply to that statement, of course he should be fined or whatever. Heck, the man is an economic genius with millions.)

[Alex Ellerman]

oh, so you're saying it's perfectly normal to shoot someone in an bright orange vest? It's not a big deal b/c it's birdshot? it's the victim's fault? give special privilege b/c he's the VP? any thing that shoots a projectile over one hundred feet per second can kill you, even a BB gun if the circumstances are right.

 

I'm saying if I'm ostensibly supposed to trust you (the VP) to protect human life and uphold the law, then I expect you to value human life and obey the law as well... he showed glaring lack in both regards.

 

you're speaking about quail hunting etiquette, and i'm talking about the responsibilities given the enormity of the job and the US place in the world, and how this (minor) incident is indicative of his personal standards.

[Keith Mottram]

Can't speak for the hunting stamp though, but hey, give him a break, he's the vice president. (...don't reply to that statement, of course he should be fined or whatever. Heck, the man is an economic genius with millions.)

 

couldn't really give a hoot if cheney shot his whole hunting party- he'd probably do the world a favour. look at his history of friends and aquaintances, chances are there would be a few dictators and would be terrorists hanging around with the usual suspects of big business (read- fu** y'all were in it for ourselves). felt i had to quote David just to check he is joking- you are aren't you? you think that the guy needs a fine for hunting? thinking about it i can imagine the court now......

 

Judge

"Cheney you have needlessly and some might say maliciously caused the death of thousands of innocent people, deaths that you have personally proffited from. you have done everything in your power to erode civil liberties in your own country and repeatedly lied to the people you are supposed to serve. I therefor decree that you should pay a fine for failing to buy a $7 stamp allowing you to shoot upland game birds.."

 

Keith

[Tim J Durham]

They were "hunting" from a car!

 

The last time Cheney went "hunting" at a canned bird farm, he slaughtered 70 pheasants. 70! The great white hunter. He prefers to "hunt" tame, hand-fed birds on private bird-murder farms and kill them from an idling car.

 

Then instead of shooting these birds-in-a-barrel, he shot his 78 year old "friend" in the face. I think the Daily Show had the proper reaction to it. Watch it on replay if you can.