Innovation, Creativity, HD and Staleness of Film

[Guest J Jukuzami]

This is an HD forum that was hijacked by the celluloid crowd. It became an anti-HD forum. Any time a new idea is brought up regarding HD, it is ridiculed. Anytime a dumb idea is brought ap like a hand crank on the Kinetta, the reminds the film crowd of hand cranked cameras, this idea is admired as ingenious.

 

I stared posting as Ultra Definition, then my girlfriend was updating my profile, messed up something with a new email address and it quit working. So I registered as Jukuzami. I would not use my real name in this unfriendly environment.

 

The reason I posted here was to show the young filmmaker, the independent filmmaker, new, less expensive ways to show his electronically made product on a large theater screen. It is obvious that the young or independent filmmaker is not that interested. He has migrated to another forum or has never become a part of this stale community of old farts or celluloid freaks acting as ones.

 

There is a new world out there. It is HD. It is not perfect, but it allows, with the latest innovations, to save money, a lot of money, if you want to show your film on a big theater screen. It is the main desire of all indies who were denied this right by the gready policy of the monopoly of two major companies that monopolized the HD camcorder business and have even devided it in such a way that one is producing 720p and the oher one 1080p gear. I doubt very much that it is a pure chance. I had my two economics classes in college and there are certain way the Japanese are doing business and even hijack whole industries worldwide, with the help of their government.

 

Now, what are these two giants pushing on the independent filmmaker? 720p HDV with 19 Mbps and 1080i HDV with 25 Mbps, which is about 4.5x more compressed than DV.

 

Then when I post information on how to get better quality than with HDV, actually the same quality as with $100K F900, at HDV prices, there is no interest.

 

There is another person who posted info about a camera that has a 1" CCD and records uncompressed 1080p with 8, 10, and 12 bit sampling; no one cares.

 

There are many new advances in HD. These are Aspect HD, real time encoding in Prospect HD, real time compressed or uncompressed recording on Mac with FCP HD, Sony 1080p HD camera with HD lens and remote control (for settings) for $27K, with performance that is a lot closer to the uncompressed F950 than if recorded on the $100K F900.

 

I mentioned the Sony camera before, only to be ridiculed by some guy from Harlem. Well, the camera has as many adjustments as many broadcast cameras, has a viewfinder output, and is fully usable as a portable camera. It needs a coax connection to a computer to which it records, or to hard disc recorder like the Doremi. It is a standard way of recording uncompressed HD during digital cinema production. Even compressed F950 needs a connection to a separate tape recorder and a processor. According to the crowd in this forum it is ridiculous because the camera must not have a connection to anything. Well, the studios have done it, but the people here claim "no way". They claim that one should go to the NAB for answers. What are the answers there? $20K HDV camera. Not good enough for me or any little knowlegable person.

 

There are, or are about to be, hundreds of digital screens worldwide. It allows the indie filmmaker to produce and distribute digitally for even less money. But the old fart attitude of this forum is hostile to this, naturally.

 

I came here to this forum by simply posting some ideas, info on new HD products, asking some questions, only upsetting everyone because I talked about electronic cinema and I did not promote film. I was getting ridiculed so I ridiculed them. I posted here when I was nor working, and had the time. I did it for the benefit of an audience that is mainly missing or is too timid to come out and be made fun of. No need to be timid. If an idiot calls you an idiot and you know that you are not, or if an ugly drunk girl calls your girl ugly, and you know that she is not, just realize, who's talking.

 

There is a guy Steve Mullen, who is an editor of Video Systems, has a PhD, has taught a Columbia, I believe. He was a moderator at a DVinfo. He is one no longer. He was not liked. That particuler DVinfo forum then became as mediocare as this HD forum with its anti HD attitude.

 

So maybe there is a time to start a new forum, like Alternate HD Techniques, where people will contribute creatively, will work on ideas, will figure out how to make them work, not put just them down due to lack of knowlege, lack of creativity, or due to ego problems. There is a member, Mike, in this forum, who is extremely knowlegable, and his constructive posts about HD are not appreciated either, and he is not talking about any alternative methods. He is just realistic about HD advantages.

 

Or we should setup a totally new forum ourselves. This site is too stale because of the old fart film attitude and other sites are all video or are too commercial, basically hijacked or run by the video industry people. DVinfo has a forum on alternative imaging methods but it is so amateurish that I would not even post there.

 

You can write to me also directly, if you have any ideas at IndieCinema@yahoo.com

 

The immerging alternative HD industry needs its own place to reach and educate the brainwashed and the brain dead. No, I don't work for any manufacturer selling or marketing anything. I have never been a salesman or a marketing guy. I am not a DP, or a photographer, as DP's are referd to in some countries. I am an indie filmmaker.

 

What is needed is a forum for indie filmmakers, that will discuss the art of filmmaking. Such forum is lacking. So maybe an indie filmmaking forum discussing all aspects of filmmaking, including cinema art and alternative HD methods could be extremely successful.

[Max Jacoby]

This is an HD forum that was hijacked by the celluloid crowd. It became an anti-HD forum. Any time a new idea is brought up regarding HD, it is ridiculed.

Don't take your case for the general rule here.

 

I stared posting as Ultra Definition, then my girlfriend was updating my profile, messed up something with a new email address and it quit working. So I registered as Jukuzami.

Yeah right!

 

I would not use my real name in this unfriendly environment.

You never used your real name FROM THE BEGINNING. Which reveals more about your attitude towards this form than the other way around. Not using your real name obviously does not help your credibility at all. We have no idea of knowing who you REALLY are. And judging from your posts I seriously doubt if you have ever set foot on a professional filmset before.

 

He has migrated to another forum or has never become a part of this stale community of old farts or celluloid freaks acting as ones.

You fail to realize that such repeated cheaps shots against film completely undermine your credibility. You are the one who is marginalizing himself here.

 

Then when I post information on how to get better quality than with HDV, actually the same quality as with $100K F900, at HDV prices, there is no interest.

How do you want to know if it is the same quality if you haven't had the opportunity to test it yet, since these cameras you are talking about are not yet on the market. Once again this is a case of you undermining your own arguments by pretending you know something which you have no way of knowing.

 

I came here to this forum by simply posting some ideas, info on new HD products, asking some questions

At least be honest: you do not come here to ASK QUESTIONS. In fact I cannot remember you asking a single question ever.

 

So maybe there is a time to start a new forum, like Alternate HD Techniques, where people will contribute creatively, will work on ideas, will figure out how to make them work, not put just them down due to lack of knowlege, lack of creativity, or due to ego problems.

 

Has it ever occured to you that if your ideas get not accepted on the HD forum, maybe the forum's members are not blame, but your ideas aren't worth anything?

 

Or we should setup a totally new forum ourselves.

BY ALL MEANS DO!

[Jo Laurits Aksdal]

I'm a young filmmaker who is interested in the future and HD. I read everything in here. But all this blabber and confusing stuff you post doesn't help me much. And nonsense, this is not an unfriendly forum.

[Jason Rodriguez]

Mr. Juzukukamakazi,

 

This isn't an unfriendly forum,

 

I've known many of the people on this forum for many years from other mailing lists (which your posting would get you promptly kicked off of), and frankly we're not unfriendly.

 

It's just that what you're talking about makes no sense in a PRODUCTION environment!!!

 

I stress the word PRODUCTION. Yes, what you talk about might work on a fixed set, when mobility is not required, but frankly, you try dragging your contraptions around, and you're going to be in for a big surprise.

 

And then you go around and slam stuff you don't even know about.

 

Hey, I love HD. I typically shoot on Sony gear. Works great for me, especially when I apply custom gamma curves from the CvpFileEditor (which I think is an amazing piece of software, or at least ability of the camera). But there's a reason why expensive camcorders and expensive film is so popular-it works!! I know I WILL get my movie done, that things won't crash, data won't be lost, etc.

 

Think of the extra cost as insurance. You want to experiement, fine, but I won't be your producer, and you might have a hard time finding funding from big investors for something that you've slapped together. Which may be fine with you, and why you need to do everything on the very cheap. Because frankly, $40,000 for a digital cinema camera at 1920x1080 up to 60fps is cheap!!!

 

And no, the Kinetta isn't just hand-crank, although if you want that look, that's probably the best way to get it. It's called FLEXIBILITY and OPTIONS, somthing a lot of other camera manufacturers don't give you.

 

So quit slamming what you don't know.

[Mitch Gross]

Well I gues I should proud to be referred to as "some guy from Harlem," whatever the hell that means. I'd rather be a working DP in NYC who works in the industry and who tries to be helpful by communicating with people on forums such as this. I'm not some wannabe floating from place to place somewhere in Europe and hiding behind various false names on this and other forums.

 

I do believe that HD in various capacities is a major part of the future of cinema. In time it may become THE future of cinema, both for production and exhibition. But I do not believe that time is necessarilly now, either for the lower or higher budget production. We shall see.

 

I believe you are to be removed from this forum. I for one will be happy to see you go.

[David Mullen ASC]

I don't see why pointing out that film is still a viable option for the low-budget filmmaker -- with evidence of this wherever you choose to look -- makes one anti-HD. I don't see why pointing out the technical difficiencies of digital imagemaking makes one anti-HD, especially when those observations are borne from using HD technology on a regular basis. People who shoot film on a regular basis are often highly critical of its strengths and weaknesses -- they HAVE to be in order to do their job.

 

There's no need for a "you're either with us or against us" mentality here in regards to HD.

 

Those of us working in the REAL world have no choice but to deal with both film and digital technologies. We don't have to get emotional about it. But it's hard NOT to get emotional about people with agendas to push who desire to paint all people with opposing viewpoints as the enemy of change. It's hard not to get emotional about people who pass out inaccurate information about technology that they barely understand and don't even use and make sweeping statements about how movies are made and should be made TO A BUNCH OF FILMMAKERS.

 

For example, all this hype about how Landmark (and Regal) has been installing digital projectors (for running adds mostly) fails to point out that Landmark is an exhibitor, not a distributor. You don't make a movie with a specific exhibition company necessary in order to distribute your movie. The truth is that the whole thing is a NON-ISSUE. The cost of a film-out is not what's stopping digital filmmakers from getting to the theaters -- it's the lack of getting a distributor to buy the movie. And the distributors will buy a movie shot in ANY format IF they think it will make money. And if they see potential, they'll want to put it out there in any format that they can show it in, digital and film. And you have to consider worldwide distribution as well. So all this talk about Landmark is misleading. Sure, it will save money to not have to make a film-out. But the lack of a film-out is not the reason a film is not distributed.

 

All this talk about emerging HD technology and against film is just a way of some people to talk about why they aren't making their dream movie instead of just going out and making it NOW. And then to have the arrogance to insult people who are managing to go out there are make their movies instead of just talking about it...

 

Anyway, Mitch and I are not anti-HD by any means and have surely shot much more HD than this guy ever will. In the real world, there's no reason to be anti-HD or anti-film any more than one should either be anti-fork or anti-spoon.

[David Mullen ASC]

As for not using one's real name in an "unfriendly environment" I've personally never been afraid to use my real name on the internet so I can only assume that people who are unpleasant and unfriendly are the ones who hide under false names in order to avoid taking responsibility for their unfriendly words and actions.

 

In fact, one must be planning ahead of time on saying unpleasant things if one FIRST protects oneself behind a false name.

 

Anyone who wants to have a reasonable discussion (including criticism) about HD or any other technology, past, present, or future, is welcome here. Anyone who just wants a platform to promote a specific agenda and attack all other viewpoints should expect a hostile reaction.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Speaking as someone who's posted among extremely severe criticism on an internet forum, I take an extremely dim view of pseudonyms. I've never presented in writing anything I don't stand by, so I have no problem being identified with it.

 

Phil

[Luke Prendergast]

Hey, he (?guessing it's a he?) did ask a question once - How to hypnotise audiences.

We still have not been given titles of all these productions you've gained so much experience on.

I think it's a great idea for you to set up your speculative HD forum elsewhere

[Guest J Jukuzami]

An advice for your next vacation, guys. When on the beach and want to pull on your wife's boobs, don't walk too far. Don't be cheap so don't clean your plastic Samyang lenses with a used toilet tissue or used tampons. Make your family vacation picture with a nice Kodak R8 camera. I'm going to fly out tomorrow anyways. Leaving this forum for good. Celebrate! And thanks for the few who wrote to indiecinema@yahoo.com :P

[Nate Downes]

You know, the guy might think he was making a crack in regards to the "Kodak R8 camera" but it didn't do too well. (I actually *do* have a Kodak Brownie 8 in mint condition, and I do actually record my vacation movies with it, typically get more attention than the Hi8 footage from the neighbors)

[DanStewart]

Perhaps now the friendliness of the environment will no longer be an issue for you, you'd like tell us your real name before you go?

[Eric Steelberg ASC]

An advice for your next vacation, guys. When on the beach and want to pull on your wife's boobs, don't walk too far. Don't be cheap so don't clean your plastic Samyang lenses with a used toilet tissue or used tampons. Make your family vacation picture with a nice Kodak R8 camera. I'm going to fly out tomorrow anyways. Leaving this forum for good. Celebrate! And thanks for the few who wrote to indiecinema@yahoo.com :P

What are you talking about!?!?

 

I'll never understand people like him.

[Christian Appelt]

ONE

He tells us we're all idiots needing to be enlightened by what he collected from manufacturer's hype and on the net.

 

TWO

He does not even respond to real-world arguments, instead he bubbles up new ideas.

 

THREE

Suddenly, he becomes the speaker for all young and aspiring filmmakers who are prevented from using HD by "old farts" and "celluloid freaks".

 

FOUR

Now HE is pissed off when nobody cares about his posts, so of course it's other people's failure. Like many insecure people left without an argument, he gets really nasty, and when I read something like this

 

An advice for your next vacation, guys. When on the beach and want to pull on your wife's boobs, don't walk too far. Don't be cheap so don't clean your plastic Samyang lenses with a used toilet tissue or used tampons.

 

I know that it comes from a person who has no job in this industry (because he does not know how to tolerate other's opinions and how to behave civilized), will never work successfully in film/tv business (unless he learns how to behave mature) and most certainly is no kind of artist, because then he would be busy creating, not preaching to pros and aspiring filmmakers about something he does not understand himself. He's one who came to know, not to learn.

 

Reading these threads again, Mr. J.'s post remind me of an old Jewish joke from Hungary (IIRC), where it is said about a guy: "He had discovered masturbation for himself, and now he was thinking about going to Budapest to get it patented."

[Justin Barham]

Jukuzami,

 

Please give it a rest. Or at least keep all of your ant-film rant in one thread. This is otherwise a very informative forum but you're littering it with bizarre rhetoric, which is not helpful to anybody.

 

Thank you.

 

-JB

[Rob Belics]

This week, his name is Parker. John, I think.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

One of the biggest things in life we can waste is time. There's nothing wrong with theoretical conversations. But it's awfully strange when someone is so avidly pushing a technology like it's a religion almost.

 

I used to be a very big analog purist with audio back in the day (this was before digital video became in widespread use), I'd constantly argue with CD buffs that a virgin LP on a good turntable from a good pressing sounded better than the best CD of the same master tape. But there's no point in arguing just for the sake of being right, unless you're a manufacturer in which case it's a business strategy. I now listen to mostly CD's, and while I still enjoy LP's I'm too lazy to get a new needle for my turntable (and I'm often too busy while working to flip it to side two after every twenty minutes). I've learned of the plusses and minuses firsthand.

 

Just look at how much TIME Mr. Ultra Definition took in writing his HDTV vs film diatribes. He could have instead been working on earning the money to buy his own HD gear which he so badly wants. He could have spent that time trying to get any work, shoot something even on SDTV (many indie filmmakers are now shooting on DV) for starters and move up to HDTV work. Just calculate the amount of text he wrote. Nobody paid him for that time (even though he "admitted" someone was paying him to - maybe it was his way of self-justifying his time wasted).

 

When I come here I want to learn, I want to ask questions and I want to read what others have to say that can help me do better work. I really am in admiration of all that people like Dave, Mitch, Phil, and many others (not to mention Tim who not only runs this forum but is also helpful) do to help people, they should be paid for their input as it's more valuable than anything Ultra Definition has contributed.

 

Debate is healthy, it is good. But if you're so damn right instead of sitting here and talking it out to death, go and do it - test your theory out then come back and say "there". The heart of filmmaking is not about drawing diagrams on the board and crunching numbers, it's about CREATING.

 

- G.

[Mark Holmes]

Well said, George. I've been reading this forum for over a year and it has been a huge help in my self-instruction on video work and cinematography. The last six months was spent shooting my first DV feature on an AGDVX 100. Finding the time and resources to complete this project without losing my mind was an enormous challenge. You're right - the people who spend all their time with these inane discussions obviously have nothing better to do. Personally, I've got some footage to capture. Keep up the good work, guys.