The Shining

[Craig Knowles]

I had a strange experience tonight. I went to a screening of Kubrick's "The Shining" -- the first time I've ever seen it on film -- expecting to see the version I'm very familiar with on DVD, but was surprised, shocked even, to discover some Kubrick I've never seen before. The version I saw tonight was the "original" USA theatrical release and contains almost 26 minutes of extra footage as compared to the DVD version on the Kubrick Collection DVD.

 

Overall, I much preferred this (extended/original) version, as it filled in some holes in plot and character and seems to make more sense to me as a whole. Before going in, I had no idea this version was going to be different, and many changes are so slight in the first few reels that I thought I was going insane when parts I swore I'd never seen before started coming on-screen.

 

The two biggest difference that struck me were: 1) improvement in plot and character through slight additions to many scenes, and 2) the inclusion of a new thematic element concerning racism that I'd never before noticed in the original, underscored by an extended dialogue sequence between Jack and Grady in that striking blood-red bathroom.

 

 

For those of you who are interested, here's an excerpt from a website talking about the changes(1), followed by the complete list of changes(2):

(1) http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/faq/html/sh...g.html#slot1108

(2) http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/sk/films/cutshining.htm

 

 

Why are there two versions of The Shining? What was filmed but cut out?

 

The two version of The Shining are the US cut with has a running time of 144 minutes and the international version which is 20 minutes shorter. Both versions have the status of "director's cuts" as Kubrick made the cuts himself.

 

In November 1980 Monthly Film Bulletin ran a piece itemising the differences between versions (1) . Here is a summary of that article:

 

Scene cut from the US version during 1st run:

 

(1) A two-minute sequence was deleted from the end of the film in the first weeks of its run. A coda to Wendy and Danny's escape (which followed the shot of Jack frozen in the maze). This showed Wendy being visited in hospital by Ullman, and his complimenting her on having survived. (2)

 

After playing to what Movie Comment calls "generally bad reviews and erratic box-office in America," the film was preview-tested before its opening in London and a further twenty-five minutes were cut.

 

...

 

Complete list of changes:

Shine On...and Out

 

(The Shining has been dwindling fast since it was released in the U.S. earlier this year. A two-minute sequence was deleted from the end of the film in the first weeks of its run. After playing to generally bad reviews and erratic box-office in America, the film was preview-tested before its opening in London and a further twenty-five minutes were cut. What follows is a catalogue of those cuts and one or two notes on their significance.)

 

(1) After the first scene with Wendy and Danny Torrance in their Boulder apartment, the film cuts back to Jack being interviewed at the Overlook Hotel. The initial stage of this conversation has been cut. Jack is introduced to the other hotel official, Bill Watson, as a schoolteacher. He protests that he was formerly a teacher but is now a writer; that teaching is only a way of "making ends meet". He claims he is looking for a change. The manager, Ullman, explains that the Overlook is closed every winter from the end of October to the following May, because of the prohibitive cost of keeping the road to the Sidewinder pass open. He comments that the hotel site was chosen for its seclusion and beauty.

 

(2) When Danny, in the Boulder apartment, first 'sees' the Grady twins, he blacks out. His subsequent examination by a doctor (Anne Jackson) has been cut. He reveals that just before his black-out he was talking to the 'friend', Tony, who lives in his mouth and tells him things. The doctor subsequently tries to reassure Wendy that nothing is wrong with Danny. Wendy reveals that they moved from Vermont, where Jack was a schoolteacher, and that Danny first started talking to Tony after an accident in which Jack dislocated the boy's shoulder in a drunken fit of temper. Jack swore never to touch alcohol again. As the film now stands, Jack's drinking problem has to be assumed, and the incident with Danny is not mentioned until halfway through.

 

(3) During their tour of the Overlook with Ullman, Jack and Wendy are introduced to the Colorado Lounge. The rest of this sequence has been cut. Wendy asks if the Indian designs are authentic, and UlIman comments that they are based on Navajo and Apache motifs. He then talks of the hotel's "illustrious past": as a stopping place for the jet set, for four presidents, lots of movie stars and "all the best people".

 

(4) The beginning of the scene where Ullman shows Jack and Wendy the hotel grounds has been cut. He indicates "our famous hedge maze" and warns them not to go in unless they have an hour to spare to find their way out.

 

(5) Back inside the hotel, a good deal of material has been cut leading up to Dick Hallorann's first appearance. Ullman shows off "The Gold Room" (where Jack will later repair for a drink from the phantom barman Lloyd). When Wendy comments that "we could really have a good party in this room", Ullman reveals that all the liquor has been removed from the premises for the winter in order to reduce the insurance. Jack states, "We don't drink". Hallorann is then introduced, and Jack, being overweeningly polite as in his earlier interview, introduces his wife as "Winifred", apparently her full name. [On the question of names, one might note that the previous caretaker, Grady, is first referred to as Charles, but in his later scene with Jack, refers to himself as Delbert.] The secretary, Susie, then appears, having found Danny outside the games room. Jack asks him if he got tired of "bombing the universe". UlIman then leaves with Jack, and Hallorann is left to show Wendy the kitchen. Hallorann asks if she is "a Winnie or a Freddie" and she tells him that she's known as Wendy.

 

(6) Part of Danny's conversation alone with Hallorann has been cut. Danny asks if he is scared of the Overlook, and he replies that he isn't but that "some places are like people, some shine and some don't. I guess you could say the Overlook Hotel here has something about it that's like shining".

 

(7) The end of the Torrances' first scene in the hotel, when Wendy brings Jack his breakfast, has been cut. Jack comments that he has never been as happy or comfortable anywhere as in the Overlook. Wendy reveals that she thought the place was "kinda scarey" when they first arrived. Jack replies that he fell in love with it straight away; that when he came for his interview, he felt he had been there before and he knew what was going to be around every corner.

 

(8) Immediately after the scene in which Wendy and Danny explore the maze, a sequence has been cut in which Wendy is seen working in the kitchen while a TV announcer talks of a search in the mountains for a missing woman, and of a snow-storm that is predicted to be moving in on Colorado.

 

(9) Following the scene in which Jack banishes Wendy from the lounge while he is working, the title THURSDAY has been deleted.

 

(10) After the scene in which Danny is confronted by the Grady twins, and they invite him to come play with them for ever and ever, a scene has been cut in which Wendy and Danny are watching what seems to be a soap-opera on television. Danny then asks to go to his room to get his fire-engine.

 

(11) Some dialogue has been cut from the middle of the scene in which Jack first goes to the Gold Room and is served a drink by Lloyd. He toasts, "Here's to five miserable months on the wagon and all the irreparable harm that it's caused me". When Lloyd asks him how things are, he comments that they could be a whole lot better, that he is having "a little problem with the old sperm bank upstairs" (referring to Wendy). Lloyd comments, "Women! Can't live with 'em. Can't live without 'em !" Jack agrees. Apart from the reference again to Jack's problem with alcohol, the drinking-buddy bonhomie and casual misogyny of the dialogue defines the banality of the evil that is overtaking (or always inherent in) Jack.

 

(12) After the bathroom dialogue in which Jack is told by Grady that he will have to 'correct' his family, a sequence has been cut in which Wendy is seen crying and talking to herself. She muses about the possibility of getting down the mountain in the snowcat, and of calling the Forest Rangers so that they can start searching for them. "If Jack won't come with us, we'll just have to tell him that we are going by ourselves". She then hears Danny calling out "red rum" over and over, but when she tries to talk to him, she is only 'answered' by Tony, who tells her that Danny can't hear her. "Danny's gone away, Mrs. Torrance".

 

(13) A scene has been cut in which Dick Hallorann again tries to get through to the Overlook by calling the Ranger station. They tell him that they've tried to get through several times by radio but there has been no answer. They offer to try again later. (This follows the scene, which has been slightly trimmed, in which Jack deliberately sabotages the radio.)

 

(14) Immediately after (13), and before the shot of Hallorann's plane in flight, the title 8AM has been deleted.

 

(15) This is followed by a shot of Hallorann inside the plane. The following material has been cut: Hallorann asks a stewardess what time they are due to land in Denver; she tells him 8.20 and he checks his watch. Jack is seen typing in the lounge of the Overlook. Hallorann's plane lands at the airport. Larry Durkin (Tony Burton), a garage owner, answers his phone and talks to Hallorann, who asks for a snowcat to get up to the Overlook. Durkin tells him that the mountain roads are completely blocked, and Hallorann justifies the urgency of his request: "We've got a very serious problem with the people who are taking care of the place. They've turned out to be completely unreliable butts. Ullman phoned me last night, and I'm supposed to go up there and find out if they have to be replaced". Hallorann estimates that it will take him five hours to drive up from the airport to collect the car. This is followed by the sequence as it now stands in the film of Hallorann driving through the blizzard in the snowcat, with the voice-over of radio announcers chatting about the deteriorating conditions.

 

(16) The beginning of the scene in which Wendy finds Jack's type-written pages covered with "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" has been cut. She and Danny are watching television; she looks at her watch and then tells Danny that she is going to talk to his father for a few minutes and that he should stay there and watch the cartoons. She picks up the baseball bat before leaving. The removal of all the sequences of the Torrances watching television has now curtailed what would seem to be a significant motif in the film, to do with popular culture and communication.

 

(17) In the final stages, when Jack is pursuing Danny through the maze and Wendy is being confronted by some of the Overlook spooks, a few shots have been removed of a tableau in which skeletons are sitting at a table with a champagne bottle and glasses.

 

(18) Very soon after the film's American release, a coda to Wendy and Danny's escape (which followed the shot of Jack frozen in the maze) was removed. This showed Wendy being visited in hospital by UllIman, and his complimenting her on having survived. The scene perhaps ties in with Jack's remarks - during the family's drive up to the Overlook - on the Donner Party trapped by winter in the Sierras, and how it was necessary for them to eat one another in order to survive.

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

Huh.. I've seen everything but the hospital visit by Ullman. Hmmm. I don't get it. I grew up watching a VHS version that has all the dialogue stuff, like the use of the "N" word between the two in the restroom, and the intitial "interview" dialogue......but no Ullman visit to the hospital. Everytime I see it on TV it has those scenes as well....

 

Why don't they finally release a decent boxed set of Kubrick? The Warner Bros. films, at least ? Crap, man!!! Kubricks' film deserve it more than many, many others who get the redcarpet treatment for dvd and it's absolute SCHLOCK!!!

 

This disheartens me greatly...I need a good boxed set. Damn.

[David Mullen ASC]

Huh.. I've seen everything but the hospital visit by Ullman. Hmmm. I don't get it. I grew up watching a VHS version that has all the dialogue stuff, like the use of the "N" word between the two in the restroom, and the intitial "interview" dialogue......but no Ullman visit to the hospital. Everytime I see it on TV it has those scenes as well....

 

Why don't they finally release a decent boxed set of Kubrick? The Warner Bros. films, at least ? Crap, man!!! Kubricks' film deserve it more than many, many others who get the redcarpet treatment for dvd and it's absolute SCHLOCK!!!

 

This disheartens me greatly...I need a good boxed set. Damn.

 

Blame the Kubrick estate more than Warners Home Video -- Kubrick was not interested in seeing outtakes, alternate foreign and pre-release versions, behind-the-scenes footage, etc. (other than the footage his daughter Vivian shot for "The Making of The Shining") appear on his DVD's -- let alone letterboxing to the theatrical ratio! -- and since his death, it's been a slow process getting away from his original wishes. Now we're starting to see some changes, like widescreen for the HD-DVD of "Full Metal Jacket".

 

Even the original release of the DVD Box Set using the old transfers made in the early 1990's supervised by Kubrick for the laserdisc market was due to following Kubrick's request, since he was too busy finishing the post for "Eyes Wide Shut" to supervise new transfers of his old movies. It was only after customer complaints that new transfers were made for the second release of the DVD Box Set.

 

But I don't really blame Kubrick for just wanting his final edit to be on DVD rather than pre-release and preview versions, or outtakes (like the infamous pie fight at the end of "Dr. Strangelove" or the 20 minutes that were cut from "2001" after the premier but before the general release.) It would be interesting to see them, of course, but I don't think the movies suffer from being shown in their final release form (except maybe the U.S. censored release of "Eyes Wide Shut.")

 

I certainly don't want the alternative hospital ending cut back into "The Shining" -- the current edit sounds so much better, cutting from Jack's frozen face to that tracking shot down the hallway that discovers the photo of Jack in the crowd of 1920's partygoers. The hospital scene sounds too much like the end of "Psycho" with the psychiatrist explaining everything for the viewer.

[James Steven Beverly]

This is what I consider the best horror movie of all time. I would LOVE to see that hospital sequence but would probably agree with you that the original release cut was perfect and needs no changes made at all. One of the things that always impressed me about that movie is the thing that lmpresses me about so many of Kubrick"s films, His masterful use of sound. I was also impressed with the use of sound in 2001 and A Clockwork Orange. I personally think it's one of the best examples of how sound can enhance the emotional quality of a picture there is out there. The only other film that I can think of off the top of my head where sound was used as effectively is Jaws. I truly stand in awe of the Shining and would put it on my own personal list of the top 10 greatest films of all times.

[Stephen Williams]

It would be interesting to see them, of course, but I don't think the movies suffer from being shown in their final release form (except maybe the U.S. censored release of "Eyes Wide Shut.")

 

 

Hi David,

 

What was cut from Eyes Wide Shut in the US version?

 

Stephen

[Jason Debus]

I don't think there were any cuts per se in Eyes Wide Shut for the US version, but Kubrick was forced to insert digital characters that covered some of the steamier orgy shots. The MPAA has a problem with 'thrusting'.

[K Borowski]

While I personally abhor sensorship, and I think it is great when directors like Spielburg have gotten the networks to air movies unsensored, I don't see how the scenes from the orgy really add to the movie. There was still a shocking amount of sex on the DVD, and Kubrick only had to alter one or two scenes, right? It isn't as if they cut out a groundbreaking scene David. Also, I'm sure that, with the new 16:9 standard, Kubrick would want to present his films in their theatrical aspect ratios. If I were in his shoes I'd probably want to do the same thing with SDTV and VHS that he did, because a letterboxed VHS tape is a pain on the eyes.

 

Regards,

~Karl Borowski

[Jon Kukla]

Well, personal tastes aside, the fact is that every country other than the US and Canada has gotten the uncensored version released on DVD. So what's the point?

[Bill DiPietra]

Also, I'm sure that, with the new 16:9 standard, Kubrick would want to present his films in their theatrical aspect ratios. If I were in his shoes I'd probably want to do the same thing with SDTV and VHS that he did, because a letterboxed VHS tape is a pain on the eyes.

 

Regards,

~Karl Borowski

 

 

Widescreen is one thing. Additional scenes are another. I personally do not wish to see changes to "The Shining," "2001," "Full Metal Jacket," "A Clockwork Orange" or any of Kubrick's films for that matter. They stand as the classics that they are. And to add scenes that would explain things to the viewer would be to destroy Kubrick's personal aesthetic, in my opinion. It's what Kubrick never wanted, and it's why I love his films.

 

Nothing beats that Kubrickian mysticism in each one of his films. Cinema at its best.

[David Mullen ASC]

While I personally abhor sensorship, and I think it is great when directors like Spielburg have gotten the networks to air movies unsensored, I don't see how the scenes from the orgy really add to the movie. There was still a shocking amount of sex on the DVD, and Kubrick only had to alter one or two scenes, right? It isn't as if they cut out a groundbreaking scene David.

 

I've seen the comparison someone did online of the U.S. and European versions of the "Eyes Wide Shut" orgy. I don't really think it makes or breaks the movie as a whole, but the U.S. version is a bit worse for the odd type of censorship. As Roger Ebert points out, the moving Steadicam shots sort of represent a voyeuristic POV of Bill, so why would he stand where he couldn't see the main action, so to speak? I suppose the figures blocking his view could reinforce the notion that he doesn't belong to this world of priveledge and power, that he is an outsider, but that's stretching it.

 

Besides, it's pretty tame bumping and grinding mostly -- you see similar stuff in the nightclub scene in "Outland" for Pete's sake. It's probably only the VOLUME of the material that made the MPAA nervous, not the actual depictions of sex. They tend to add that stuff up like an accountant when giving a rating, so Kubrick probably either had a choice to cut the footage way down, or keep the amount of the sex the same but make it more obscure. But still, the European version is still an "R" movie. Not that the MPAA ever told him to do anything -- I think Warners and Kubrick knew they would have to do something to make the movie palatable to them, censoring themselves so to speak.

[James Steven Beverly]

Wasn't that released around the time of Janet Jackson's "Malfunction"? Maybe that had something to do with it, that whole "family values" backlash.

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

No, the Jackson thing happened a year or two ago. EWS came out in '99.

 

The digi-charachters in the orgy scene looked like cardboard cut-outs, thats why it ruins the scene. During the passes of these cut-outs you can see it was a poop job of cgi. They don't even look 3-d. If I'm thinking this during the film, well, that is a crappy experience. Do they even have shadows? The lighting didn't cast hard shadows but,...I'm going to look now. Just release the damn thing on dvd unedited.Crap!! I saw it 4 times in the theatre, love it. One of his best. Cruise was badass. The "revelation" scene between Tom and Nic was pure Kubrick, fantastic. Oh,err, I weant off on a tangent.

 

As far as the cut we all know and love of THE SHINING, I agree. I just want all the other crap to look at. "crap" being a scientific term, of course. :)

 

All the cuts we grew up with, regarding Kubrick films, are the best. Seeing everything else is just fun and gives insight to the process...

[Wilkin Chau]

Blame the Kubrick estate more than Warners Home Video -- Kubrick was not interested in seeing outtakes, alternate foreign and pre-release versions, behind-the-scenes footage, etc. (other than the footage his daughter Vivian shot for "The Making of The Shining") appear on his DVD's -- let alone letterboxing to the theatrical ratio! -- and since his death, it's been a slow process getting away from his original wishes. Now we're starting to see some changes, like widescreen for the HD-DVD of "Full Metal Jacket".

 

Even the original release of the DVD Box Set using the old transfers made in the early 1990's supervised by Kubrick for the laserdisc market was due to following Kubrick's request, since he was too busy finishing the post for "Eyes Wide Shut" to supervise new transfers of his old movies. It was only after customer complaints that new transfers were made for the second release of the DVD Box Set.

 

But I don't really blame Kubrick for just wanting his final edit to be on DVD rather than pre-release and preview versions, or outtakes (like the infamous pie fight at the end of "Dr. Strangelove" or the 20 minutes that were cut from "2001" after the premier but before the general release.) It would be interesting to see them, of course, but I don't think the movies suffer from being shown in their final release form (except maybe the U.S. censored release of "Eyes Wide Shut.")

 

I certainly don't want the alternative hospital ending cut back into "The Shining" -- the current edit sounds so much better, cutting from Jack's frozen face to that tracking shot down the hallway that discovers the photo of Jack in the crowd of 1920's partygoers. The hospital scene sounds too much like the end of "Psycho" with the psychiatrist explaining everything for the viewer.

 

Yeah, I didn't like the exposition in Psycho. Love the movie but the ending kinda sucked. I didn't need a doctor to tell me that a guy who digs up his mom and "talks and argues" with her, dresses up in drag and kills people is insane.

 

Would be interesting to see that version of the Shining. One thing I would have liked is more extra features on the Kubrick DVD's. But that isn't going to happen unfortunately.

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

poo on the kubrick estate, then.

 

I bet everyone on this board would fork over the dough for a killer boxed set...

 

is there some kind of petition for this?

 

anyone have Christaine Kubricks email? J/K :lol:

[Dan Goulder]

Kubrick's entire catalogue is being transferred to HD in the original theatrical ratios. I assume these movies are slated for HD-DVD (or Blu-Ray). I've already seen HD transfers of Paths of Glory, 2001, Clockwork Orange, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, and Eyes Wide Shut. The transfers look great, and seem to have a greater immediacy than the "protected" 4x3 versions, which tend to make the action more remote.

(Paths of Glory is pillarboxed, as it was originally framed for 4x3 projection.)

Edited August 30, 2006 by D. Goulder

[Craig Knowles]

Kubrick's entire catalogue is being transferred to HD in the original theatrical ratios. I assume these movies are slated for HD-DVD (or Blu-Ray). I've already seen HD transfers of Paths of Glory, 2001, Clockwork Orange, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, and Eyes Wide Shut. The transfers look great, and seem to have a greater immediacy than the "protected" 4x3 versions, which tend to make the action more remote.

(Paths of Glory is pillarboxed, as it was originally framed for 4x3 projection.)

 

Excellent news. That might be just enough of a carrot to get me to purchase the HD versions, but some extra features -- even something as simple as the Hitchcock Collection interviews with the actors and major players -- would be nice.

[Sean Azze]

You know what I would fork over some serious bank to see??? A copy of "Fear and Desire". I'd love to see what kind of work the man did around my age.

 

Also, does anyone know if his documentaries are available anywhere? Thats something else that would get a hefty bid on ebay.

[Craig Knowles]

You know what I would fork over some serious bank to see??? A copy of "Fear and Desire". I'd love to see what kind of work the man did around my age.

 

Also, does anyone know if his documentaries are available anywhere? Thats something else that would get a hefty bid on ebay.

 

There's a terrible VHS version of "Fear and Desire" floating around that's almost impossible to watch, and the docs are available on eBay from time to time as well.

 

In fact, Kubrick's first, "The Flying Padre", is on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqTlxRYt7B0

 

"Day of the Fight" and "The Seafarers" don't seem to be up as of yet.

[Craig Knowles]

"Day of the Fight" is here:

http://mutinycompany.com/dayotfight.html

 

Both "The Flying Padre" and "Day of the Fight" will be shown on TCM (Turner Classic Movies) on September 15th along with early short films from Martin Scorsese ("What's a Nice Girl Like You Doing in a Place Like This?", "It's Not Just You, Murray!", and "The Big Shave") and David Lynch ("The Grandmother" and "The Alphabet"):

http://www.tcm.com/schedule/index.jsp?star...e=EST&cid=N

 

Some of these are also on YouTube, but may not be for long. It looks like Lynch had some of his taken down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKsXFh7ZdA&search=Lynch

[James Steven Beverly]

Lynch so ROCKS! That guy is amazing.

[Michel Hafner]

Kubrick's entire catalogue is being transferred to HD in the original theatrical ratios. I assume these movies are slated for HD-DVD (or Blu-Ray). I've already seen HD transfers of Paths of Glory, 2001

Is 2001 a newer transfer than the one recently in HD on TV with the horrible edge enhancement?

Michel Hafner

www.imdb.com

[Dan Goulder]

Is 2001 a newer transfer than the one recently in HD on TV with the horrible edge enhancement?

Michel Hafner

www.imdb.com

To avoid any unneccesary upset, you'd be best to play it safe by sticking with the VHS transfer, while commiserating with all the edge enhancement experts over at the AVS forum.

[Sean Azze]

"Day of the Fight" is here:

http://mutinycompany.com/dayotfight.html

 

Both "The Flying Padre" and "Day of the Fight" will be shown on TCM (Turner Classic Movies) on September 15th along with early short films from Martin Scorsese ("What's a Nice Girl Like You Doing in a Place Like This?", "It's Not Just You, Murray!", and "The Big Shave") and David Lynch ("The Grandmother" and "The Alphabet"):

http://www.tcm.com/schedule/index.jsp?star...e=EST&cid=N

 

Some of these are also on YouTube, but may not be for long. It looks like Lynch had some of his taken down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKsXFh7ZdA&search=Lynch

 

 

Cool - Thanks a lot!

[Michel Hafner]

To avoid any unneccesary upset, you'd be best to play it safe by sticking with the VHS transfer, while commiserating with all the edge enhancement experts over at the AVS forum.

Have you anything relevant to say in addition to such childish remarks? What is your problem?

Michel Hafner

www.imdb.com

[Dan Goulder]

Have you anything relevant to say in addition to such childish remarks? What is your problem?

Michel Hafner

www.imdb.com

I think you know quite well your post was meant as a personal dig, rehashing an old exchange. If you have something to say, you don't need to base your position by using my remarks as a way of subtle attack, so don't pretend otherwise. In the future, please refrain from using my quotes, and I'll refrain from using yours. You might want to consider acting like more of a grownup, yourself.