What does it take to be ASC?

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Just like how a lot of people think that anyone not the director, producer, cinematographer, or writer on a film is a grip, or when people think that grips handle lights.

 

It annoys me.

 

And when people call silks flags.

 

And when people call every stand a c-stand.

 

And when other departments plug in hair dryers and other stuff into lunchboxes without asking you on the same circuit as a baby junior or blonde and trip the circuit when they turn it on and then the gaffer yells at you for making the light turn off.

 

the list goes on.

 

Hmmm I've never been one for names myself, you would probably hate working with me. Even tools I've worked with for more than 10 years I'll sometimes just point at and say "Could you hand me that Doo-hikee". As long as it's clear what someone means, I don't see the point. Now if someone asked "For that thingymabobber from a drawer full of thingymabobbers, then you've got a problem...

 

Intent and clarity is all that's really important. If they call the director Cheeseman, and the director is ok with that whatever.

Edited April 18, 2007 by Gavin Greenwalt

[Kevin Zanit]

Yeah to an extent names don't matter, but you wouldn?t call the transpo captain the craft service person. Gaffer, electric, grip, they are all different jobs, so it just sounds stupid to me when people mix them up.

 

Now when it comes to a beefy baby vs. a regular baby stand or some other small difference in equipment naming, that really doesn't bother me too much. I was mainly talking about people not knowing really what each job is supposed to do.

 

Kevin Zanit

[Matthew Buick]

I feel that another essential requirement for the eternal glory of ASC membership is ingenuity. You've got to invent new ways of lighting and shooting even if you have no decent equipment.

 

I have no proper film lights, so for a demo reel I'm shootig in a couple of weeks I'm going to use TVs on full brightness and push 500T one stop to achieve a decent exposure.

 

As soon as I figure out how to "push"... :huh:

[Chris Keth]

In that instance it is plural, but "frustrations with gaffers & grips", and "among beginner grips & gaffers." just sounds like the million times I see the two jobs incorrectly linked as counter parts.

 

Well, they don't do the same job but they are linked in their tasks. It's sort of how firefighters and EMTs are linked in saving lives.

 

I think it's also a holdover from super low budget stuff and filmschool (or at least where I go) where the two jobs are done as often as not by the same person/people.

[Kevin Zanit]

They are not at all linked in their tasks. The gaffer is a department head, in charge of the electrics. A grip is not a department head, and works in an entirely different department than an electric would.

 

This is my point, it is a bit of semantics, but it really shows a lack of understanding of the various jobs on a film shoot when people use this type of terminology.

[Dory Breaux DP]

Titles don't make you anything special. Non of the Warren Miller Entertainment, Matchstick Productions or Freeride Entertainment cinematographers are part of ASC, and personally I don't think ANYONE can beat those fools! I'm not noking anyone and defenetly have great respect for all cinematographers, but You could honistly be the best one out there and not be part of ASC or any such union/what ever it is.

[Dan Salzmann]

I think ASC and future ASC cinematographers use spell checkers. Hint!

[Dory Breaux DP]

I think ASC and future ASC cinematographers use spell checkers. Hint!

 

Was this statement directed at me?

[Dan Salzmann]

"I'm not noking anyone and defenetly have great respect for all cinematographers, but You could honistly be the best one out there and not be part of ASC or any such union/what ever it is."

 

Sorry, but yes. Try putting the above quote from your post into a spell checker and see what comes up.

As I'm sure you are aware, one of the aspects of a good DP (potentially ASC) is the attention to detail in their work and communication with others (such as the people who read this forum).

Please don't take this badly. Good habits are good habits.

[Matthew Buick]

defenetly have great respect for all cinematographers

 

ALL Cinematographers?!?!? Even me??? :blink:

[Kenny N Suleimanagich]

I think I was a bit too harsh with my annoyance with names, I just meant that when youre by the truck and someone on set calls for a c-stand and you bring it to them, to find that they need to set a big light like a blonde or something. Or when they call for a flag but they mean a silk. It just leads to inefficiency and more "waiting on lighting".

[Hal Smith]

I think I was a bit too harsh with my annoyance with names, I just meant that when youre by the truck and someone on set calls for a c-stand and you bring it to them, to find that they need to set a big light like a blonde or something. Or when they call for a flag but they mean a silk. It just leads to inefficiency and more "waiting on lighting".

I took at a look at the avap.org website. Awesome - you're in high school and working on real productions. What's been the experience of your grads going on to film schools? Do any grads go directly on to working professionally?

[Chad Stockfleth]

i dream of the luxury that is having seperate grips and electrics.

 

half net, full net, silk, a frame of 216.....when someone calls for a flag, shouldn't you really just bring one of each? not to mention an actual flag! :P

[Glenn Hanns]

I took at a look at the avap.org website. Awesome - you're in high school and working on real productions. What's been the experience of your grads going on to film schools? Do any grads go directly on to working professionally?

 

 

Dont know about avap.org but at http://www.aftrs.edu.au 100% of DPs go onto fulltime work, whether feature work or high end commercials is the only variable. http://www.kokodathemovie.com.au/ from a recent graduate.. and in our class we have someone who hasnt even finished whos done his first feature. Not bad hey!

[John Sprung]

So the trick for me has been to remind myself to let the experienced crew people do their jobs --

A long time ago I worked with a DP who invented a way to break himself of the bad habit of doing instead of delegating. He bought himself several pairs of white pants and white shirts, and always came to work in this "ice cream suit". He could judge his progress by how clean he was at the end of the day. ;-)

 

As for the difference between the ASC and the union, I like Steve Poster's choice of words: "separation of church and state".

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[Joshua Dannais]

Here's a side question... In terms of production, are DP's considered above the line?

[David Mullen ASC]

Here's a side question... In terms of production, are DP's considered above the line?

 

No.

[Matthew Buick]

Does anyone mind if I ask the meaning of this "above the line".

[David Mullen ASC]

Basically the director, screenwriters, producers, and lead actors...

 

Don't know the exact parameters, but it seems to me to be partly about not being paid by the hour, but being paid a lump sum for the work.

 

A DP may get an offer that is a weekly rate, let's say, on a feature, but for accounting purposes and for union reasons (calculating for pension and health care benefits) it's broken down into an hourly rate.

 

But I don't know for sure if that's the definition of below-the-line though.

[Joshua Dannais]

Basically the director, screenwriters, producers, and lead actors...

 

Don't know the exact parameters, but it seems to me to be partly about not being paid by the hour, but being paid a lump sum for the work.

 

A DP may get an offer that is a weekly rate, let's say, on a feature, but for accounting purposes and for union reasons (calculating for pension and health care benefits) it's broken down into an hourly rate.

 

But I don't know for sure if that's the definition of below-the-line though.

 

 

It's sort of a gray area, I would say, sort of open to interpretation

[John Sprung]

Does anyone mind if I ask the meaning of this "above the line".

Above and below the line is something that originated back in the silent film days, and just stuck and never got changed. If we were to re-think it today, surely the DP and Editor would get moved above the line. Theoretically, it's supposed to be the division between creative and labor. It's an accounting convention, and to change it now would mean that you couldn't compare the actuals on future shows with those from the past.

 

-- J.S.

[David Mullen ASC]

Above and below the line is something that originated back in the silent film days, and just stuck and never got changed. If we were to re-think it today, surely the DP and Editor would get moved above the line. Theoretically, it's supposed to be the division between creative and labor. It's an accounting convention, and to change it now would mean that you couldn't compare the actuals on future shows with those from the past.

 

-- J.S.

 

It's one reason why above-the-line folks tend to get residuals and profit points and below-the-line folks generally don't. Again, that's another gray area.

[Mike Williamson]

If we were to re-think it today, surely the DP and Editor would get moved above the line.

 

I wouldn't be so sure. Part of the incentive to keep DP's "below the line" is to keep the rates down, especially in terms of residuals and back-end money. I think producers and studio execs are quite happy to keep see as many people as possible below the line, as this increases the profit share for them.

 

Along similar lines, above the line people will often attempt to label and treat the DP as a technician rather than an artist, as it's easier to pay a technician less than an artist.

[Matthew Buick]

Basically the director, screenwriters, producers, and lead actors...

 

Don't know the exact parameters, but it seems to me to be partly about not being paid by the hour, but being paid a lump sum for the work.

 

A DP may get an offer that is a weekly rate, let's say, on a feature, but for accounting purposes and for union reasons (calculating for pension and health care benefits) it's broken down into an hourly rate.

 

But I don't know for sure if that's the definition of below-the-line though.

 

Thanks, David. That's how it should be.

[Matthew Buick]

Above and below the line is something that originated back in the silent film days, and just stuck and never got changed. If we were to re-think it today, surely the DP and Editor would get moved above the line. Theoretically, it's supposed to be the division between creative and labor. It's an accounting convention, and to change it now would mean that you couldn't compare the actuals on future shows with those from the past.

 

-- J.S.

 

Thank you too, John. Sorry, I didn't see your post. Half asleep.

 

Night, all! :)