"2001" in 70mm

[Leo Anthony Vale]

Though I'm not sure they used the actual "bug eye" Todd-AO lens in "2001", but there are plenty of super-wide-angle large format lenses they could have used that have barrel distortion.

 

I read an interview with Trumball about 'Brainstorm', in which he said that Kubrick did buy a Todd-AO bugeye

for '2001'. For 'Brainstorm', Trumbull had an optical company, maybe Fisher, build a copy of it.

He also used a 19mm Kowa 6x6 fisheye for Panaglide shots.

 

Todd-AO had two models of the bugeye, the humongous one and a relativeley smaller one, but still a monster to hand hold.

 

& the 65mm Panaflex is about the same size as a 35BL.

 

 

 

Kubrick obviouosly bought the smaller one.

[Stephen Williams]

I didn't think that Nikon made any glass for medium and large format cameras that could be adapted to 65mm, although I guess the 5-perf 65mm frame isn't tremendously bigger than the 8-perf 35mm still camera format (or VistaVision) that a few of the 35mm still camera lenses couldn't work.

 

Hi David,

 

The focal lengths John is quoting are 20% bigger implying a small multiplier is added to the lens. I bought my Cooke 20-60 From Paradise FX they used it with a x 2 on 65mm cameras. Chuck Colburn did the conversion.

 

Stephen

[Leo Anthony Vale]

Does/did Nikon make medium format glass? I don't ever recall seeing anything of nikon make in between their 35mm SLRs and their large format lenses. I figured Kubrick to be a Hassy kind of guy. :P

 

Nikon used to make lenses for Bronica.

They also made large format lenses.

 

http://www.nikonlinks.com/equipment_lenses...edium_large.htm

[Max Jacoby]

I think Satsuki's comment about how "size matters" with regard to the viewing experience of a film is very telling, and proving you right, David.

There's definitely a whole bunch of filmmakers whose work is best appreciated on the big screen. People like Angelopoulos or Shinji Aoyama ('Eureka') who mostly work with wide shots. Watching them on a television just takes away from the whole experience. At least with the advent of HD at home their films start looking much better there too.

[David Mullen ASC]

There's definitely a whole bunch of filmmakers whose work is best appreciated on the big screen. People like Angelopoulos or Shinji Aoyama ('Eureka') who mostly work with wide shots. Watching them on a television just takes away from the whole experience. At least with the advent of HD at home their films start looking much better there too.

 

Many old 1.37 Academy movies also benefit from large screen projection, even Buster Keaton's comedies.

[Chris Keth]

Nikon used to make lenses for Bronica.

They also made large format lenses.

 

http://www.nikonlinks.com/equipment_lenses...edium_large.htm

 

OK. I knew they made large format glass; I shoot 4x5 and 8x10 with some regularity. I didn't know they made bronica's glass, though.

[Tom Lowe]

Awesome thread, guys.

 

I'm bummed that I missed that 70mm screening at the Aero. I saw Lawrence there in 70 mil a few months back and was blown away. I also missed Baraka in 70mm that week as well. :(

[Christian Appelt]

I also have conflicting sources at hand whether the restoration Kubrick did on "2001: A Space Odyssey" in the early 1990s was entirely sourced from the 65mm Super Panavision 70 original camera negative? Could someone acknowledge or dispute the claims that some 65mm footage had apparently been lost at Warner and hence alternative 35mm source material had to be used - probably internegatives from the post-roadshow release period?

 

At some point when the 70mm release prints a part of the original negative must have been damaged. It happens in the last reel when Bowman sees himself as an older man through the doorway. In the new 70mm prints I saw, the image goes EXTREMELY grainy with greenish colours.

 

Two years ago, I looked into a vintage 70mm print of 2001 and was surprised to find that even in that print there was a SLIGHT jump in quality, but nowhere as bad as in the new prints. Since vintage prinbts were struck from camera negative and new prints came from a dupe negative, this is what I believe happened:

 

1. During release printing, a scetion of 65mm camera negative is damaged.

 

2. The footage is replaced by dupe negative, either from 65mm interpos>interneg printing or from 65mm separations>dupe negative. This dupe is spliced into the OCN.

 

3. Many years later, a new interpositive is struck from OCN, new interneg(s) and prints produced.

 

That would mean

 

OCN>Interpos>Interneg>Print most of 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY

 

BUT:

 

OCN>Interpos>Interneg>Interpos>Interneg>Print for the damaged section !

 

which explains the degradation of color, grain and resolution in this short section.

If you compared different vintage prints of 2001, you could find out when the damage occured. In a perfect world, the old dupe section would have been substituted by a new dupe part from B&W separations or a digital dupe if damaged OCN parts still exist, but I suppose that this was either prohibitive for such a small run of new prints.

 

BTW, the AC article about 2001 says that a special Fairchild wide angle lens was used for HAL's POV shots.

[Leo Anthony Vale]

BTW, the AC article about 2001 says that a special Fairchild wide angle lens was used for HAL's POV shots.

 

I would have thought it was a Nikkor fisheye because of the area the image occupies.

 

It must have been Fairchild that made Trumbull's bugeye knockoff.

 

Here's a May 1960 AC article from the widescreenmuseum titled 'Panavision's Progress':

 

http://widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/panavisn.htm

 

It deescribes and shows the 65mm studio and hand held cameras.

 

 

 

Does that look so hard to handhold?

 

[Thomas James]

It seems that the powers to be namely the producers have assumed over the years that audiances simply do not care about 70mm film productions so why spend the extra money to produce these movies. However with all the emphasis lately on high definition home theatre it seems that audiances are now more than ever aware of the advantages of higher resolution formats and would really appreciate the greater picture quality that 70mm affords.

 

As far as the objection that 65mm cameras are impossible for hand held shots it seems that good ergonomics have already been achieved with the classical diagonal reel designs.

[Michael Lehnert]

As far as the objection that 65mm cameras are impossible for hand held shots it seems that good ergonomics have already been achieved with the classical diagonal reel designs.

 

That is very interesting and would come as a surprise to many who think of 65/70mm mainly in form of the Arriflex 765.

 

Below's photo attachment is of course not an exact 1:1, but I think quite close comparison. It's an attempt to show how much more could be done were there real will to push the format (and how much more has apparenty been forgotten or left unimplemented for a long time in size-oriented camera building by an industry who prides itself of its continuous history)

 

 

 

It seems that the powers to be namely the producers have assumed over the years that audiances simply do not care about 70mm film productions so why spend the extra money to produce these movies. However with all the emphasis lately on high definition home theatre it seems that audiances are now more than ever aware of the advantages of higher resolution formats and would really appreciate the greater picture quality that 70mm affords.

 

I fully agree. David Mullen made a similar point earlier. Maybe with a greater degree of exposure and awareness in the industry, our voiced opinions could transform into a positive trend for that format.

Yeah, maybe it is the fringe formats, Super 8 for HD on one end, and 65/70mm for grand theatre projection on the other, that have the most potential to develop increasingly stalled film rhetorics and entice audiences anew.

It would all boil down to good marketing and clever costing/pricing; and a convincing voice to confront "the suits" on their own terms.

[Satsuki Murashige]

 

Does that look so hard to handhold?

Nope, that looks shockingly compact and ergonomic! Of course, that cameraman's hands look like bear paws so I suspect that camera would look much bigger on my shoulder. I'll bet it sounds like a lawnmower next to your ear at 24fps. ;)

[Matt Kelly]

I realize this thread is kind of old, but for interested people, I just saw the 12mm Todd-AO/D-150 lens in person!  It's has a RIDICULOUSLY huge front element.  Martin Hill in NC will be receiving it in a couple weeks along with the 18mm version..also an AP-65 package and a BFC to complete a full blimped studio set-up. (the only complete one I've heard of).  Some really cool stuff if anyone's interested in owning some history.

[Leo Anthony Vale]

..also an AP-65 package and a BFC to complete a full blimped studio set-up. (the only complete one I've heard of).  Some really cool stuff if anyone's interested in owning some history.

 

Is that the AP-65 package AlanGordon has?

[Jason Debus]

For those in the LA area, there are two screenings at the Cinerama dome on September 5th (first show already sold out):

 

https://www.arclightcinemas.com/

 

ArcLight Presents...2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY

Presented in the 70mm Cinerama format with six channel sound, as originally seen in its 1968 roadshow engagement, Stanley Kubrick's epic 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY will launch ArcLight's first Cinerama showcase. --- A four-million-year-old black monolith is discovered on the moon, and the government (while hiding the situation from the public) sends a team of scientists on a fact-finding mission. Eighteen months later, another team is sent to Jupiter in a ship controlled by the perfect HAL 9000 computer to further investigate the giant object - but on this trip something goes terribly wrong. Directed by Stanley Kubrick. Keir Dullea, Gary Lockwood, William Sylvester, Douglas Rain. 100 SPECIAL EDITION 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY BLU-RAY HIGH-DEF DVDs FROM WARNER HOME VIDEO WILL BE GIVEN OUT TO THE FIRST 100 TICKET HOLDERS IN LINE FOR THE 8PM SHOW.

[Chris Keth]

For those in the LA area, there are two screenings at the Cinerama dome on September 5th (first show already sold out):

 

https://www.arclightcinemas.com/

 

Tickets purchased. Thanks for the heads up. Anyone else going?

[Bill DiPietra]

Tickets purchased. Thanks for the heads up. Anyone else going?

 

I'm so jealous. But enjoy! :lol:

[Thomas James]

I just bought the HD-DVD 2001 for 10 bucks. I probably could have waited and gotten it for cheaper but if I wait too long it would have been sold out. If they ever clear out these HD-DVD movies for 99 cents I will buy at least a hundred of them.

[Ruairi Robinson]

I just bought the HD-DVD 2001 for 10 bucks. I probably could have waited and gotten it for cheaper but if I wait too long it would have been sold out. If they ever clear out these HD-DVD movies for 99 cents I will buy at least a hundred of them.

 

shame there aren't a hundred good movies on hd-dvd.