This one's for us

[Tom Lowe]

Are you kidding ?

 

Well there are exceptions to every rule, I'm just throwing in my 2 cents.

 

Having spent a lot of time in very remote places in the military myself, I can tell you that MEN don't even like those kinds of conditions, let alone women. But again, there are exceptions to every rule, and some women are tough as nails outdoors enthusiasts. I see plenty of them backpacking up in the Sierras every summer. I was just making a statement based on what I have seen on film sets in remote places.

 

*prepares to be lynched*

[John Brawley]

Well there are exceptions to every rule, I'm just throwing in my 2 cents.

 

Having spent a lot of time in very remote places in the military myself,

*prepares to be lynched*

 

 

I just don't understand what filmmaking has to do with being in the military.

 

I have shot many recruiting campaigns for the Australian Defence Force and have the utmost respect for what they do. But i don't see the relevance to military conditions....

 

 

 

jb

[Tom Lowe]

Difficult location shoots have been compared to "military operations" by many famous directors, including Kurosawa. There are many similarities between the two, in my experience.

 

But again, this is just my own experience. I shoot in very, very remote places, where a camera crew and sound guy have to drag equipment up a 5-mile trail in the mountains, gaining thousands of vertical feet in elevation, living in tents, waking up at 4AM in the pitch dark and feezing cold to set up a sunrise shot, etc.

Edited November 19, 2007 by Tom Lowe

[Matt Pacini]

The problem I have with how discussions like this typically go, is that they start out with 2 false assumptions:

1. Men and women want to do the same things.

2. Men and women have the same abilities.

 

You can't possibly hope to come up with an answer to the "problem" (if it's even a problem), if you pretend these two things are true.

 

There are things women do much better than men. Women are better at verbal skills, they mature at a younger age and are more emotionally developed at younger ages than men. It's a fact.

These things are widely acknowledged in our society. Nobody claims they're sexist against men. They're just true, period.

However, it's become "sexist" to even hint that there "may" be some things men are better at than women.

It's no secret men are more visually oriented, and studies have shown men to be better at things that require spacial recognition, like even things as drab (and undesirable) as working a backhoe.

And on that note, why are there no complaints that there are few women backhoe drivers? It's obvious; they don't like that type of thing. So when people ask this same question about what's seen to be "desirable" careers, the answer always has to be: discrimination by males.

It's just a completely silly discussion if you're not going to be honest about the realities of the differences in likes, dislikes, etc., between men and women.

I don't see that I've said anything outrageous or sexist here, yet I have no doubt I'll be censored, or at least flamed for making this post.

 

MP

[Julia Gers]

...out in the deserts of Tunisia for months on end, for example, and your "accommodations" are very rough - living in group tents or barracks, no AC, limited laundry, showers, etc,...

 

This might sound kinda weird coming from a girl and from a kid, but that actually sounds really fun to me. If I'm working on a film/shoot/whatever, if it's something that's important to me or is over a topic of interest to me (aka: important to me), then I would gladly put up with those kinds of conditions rather than give up the opportunity to work on whatever project it was. (for instance, if it was anything to do with animals (especially reptiles (especially snakes if you want to get real specific)) then I would probably do almost anything if it meant not missing the opportunity to work on the shoot.

Even those conditions, not being a film shoot, sound fun. Camping in the desert? I mean, come on! I dunno about the rest of you, but that actually does sound really fun to me. Just think of all the things you'd see that don't even exist in cities or even urban areas!

 

...waking up at 4AM in the pitch dark and freezing cold to set up a sunrise shot, etc.

 

Yea... That also sounds like fun to me. I dunno about dragging equipment up a large hill or mountain for hours on end though...

 

 

It really just depends on an individuals attitude I think. If I was on a shoot in the location mentioned in the first quote here from Tom and, say, I wasn't getting enough water and I couldn't stand at all the people I was working with, then yes, I'd be misserable and probably complain and whine a lot. But as long as I've got water and the people I'm working with are likable, then, even if it's really hot out, I've been wearing the same underwear for a week, and ect., I will still make the best out of the experience and try and have a good time and be happy that I got to go somewhere I'd never been before and see things I wouldn't get to see anywhere else.

Actually, if it was really hot out (as deserts often are) it would probably put me in a not so great mood regardless of other things. I don't like the heat that much. But put me in a super cold location and I will shiver all I can and still be happy and never complain.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Julia Gers

[K Borowski]

I probably shouldn't be chiming in on this thread; I think this sort of analysis is hurtful, as generalization almost guarantees stereotyping, but I have heard some generalizations here that are FALSE.

 

SOME women have better color vision than men, but for the most part, things are about equal, unless you're comparing a woman to a color-blind man. BTW, I know some women that are colorblind. I have better color vision than every single one of them and than every single color-blind man, although, in B&W work, I'd say the colorblind can actually be at an advantage.

 

It is interesting and unfortunate that women that are quadchromats actually carry the gene for colorblindness. Due to the principle of X-chromosome suppression on the sex chromosome in women, this effectively means that half of a woman of this type's cone-receptor cells are color blind. In other words, the reason that they are seeing a "fourth" color is because some of their receptors are color-blind to the difference between red and green, and therefore see a color that is in-between these two spectra, sort of like the "fourth color layer" in Fuji films where there is a cyan interlayer.

 

Hell, my own two eyes are different. One has a slight astigmatism, and it also sees a slighty different shade of color than my right eye. I could make a broad-sweeping statement that all men have better right eyes than left, or I could be more realistic and says it really all depends on the person.

 

I also do not buy this notion of having role-models being a huge reason why women aren't accepted in the industry and aren't driven to do it. I agree that not having anyone to look up to can cause hesitance, part of the reason why I made the mistake of following in my father's footsteps as an engineer instead of going straight into film and photography, but one can NOT fall back in some silly line like "Well, there are no women doing this." Women fight in the army alongside men now, are vying for the presidency of the United States, and can, in fact do more things more easily than men.

 

Now, there is no doubt that being a woman is physically as well as cultural more challenging than being a man. Women are, after all, the foundation of population. Without mothers there is no more population, so they certainly feel the pulls of family more than men do. But, look at still photography. Margaret Bourke-White was flying in bombers with WWII army airmen and traveling through Europe, and photography is still heavily, heavily dominated by men. Women traditionally have been segregated to the darkroom aspect of things, color correcting and printing. There have been women role models in photography since before my grandparents were born that have done nothing to help equalize the proportion of men to women in this field.

 

To quote my favorite show, Madmen, about photography and hence even moreso about filmmaking "The equipment is definitely part of the fun".

 

~KB

[Julia Gers]

I do think role models are helpful to have. Still, though, if throughout time everyone always just said "no one else like me is doing this, so why should I?" then no one would have ever done anything. The world (or at least the US) would still be completely dominated by white males today and there would also still be slavery. Major change happens when someone goes out and does something specifically because no one else has done it yet. They do it to show the world that, yes, it can be done. Whether you rely on role models or not to motivate you to accomplish your goals, you still have to have a certain about of "I want to prove to people that I can do this." It doesn't matter if you're trying to prove to the entire world that it's possible, or if you're just trying to prove to a friend or parent that you can do it.

[K Borowski]

Still, though, if throughout time everyone always just said "no one else like me is doing this, so why should I?" then no one would have ever done anything. The world (or at least the US) would still be completely dominated by white males today and there would also still be slavery. Major change happens when someone goes out and does something specifically because no one else has done it yet. They do it to show the world that, yes, it can be done. Whether you rely on role models or not to motivate you to accomplish your goals, you still have to have a certain about of "I want to prove to people that I can do this." It doesn't matter if you're trying to prove to the entire world that it's possible, or if you're just trying to prove to a friend or parent that you can do it.

 

Exactly! I'm glad I was understood. Often times people who cite a lack of rolemodels as why they do not go about doing something are doing nothing more than employing a mental crutch on which to hobble along. If I took that approach as to a lack of rolemodels I would have given up and switched over to digital photography instead of going out and buying a film processor and paper processor.

 

People in general (men & women, young & old, black, white, yellow, blue and green) need to stop being so excessively concerned about what other people think. Unless you are in politics, who cares? ;-)

[Tom Lowe]

Even those conditions, not being a film shoot, sound fun. Camping in the desert? I mean, come on! I dunno about the rest of you, but that actually does sound really fun to me. Just think of all the things you'd see that don't even exist in cities or even urban areas!

 

Yea... That also sounds like fun to me.

 

Hehe, well you're welcome on my crew any time if you're volunteering to wake up at 4AM in the freezing cold to set up sunrise shots. :)

[James Steven Beverly]

The problem I have with how discussions like this typically go, is that they start out with 2 false assumptions:

1. Men and women want to do the same things.

2. Men and women have the same abilities.

 

You can't possibly hope to come up with an answer to the "problem" (if it's even a problem), if you pretend these two things are true.

 

There are things women do much better than men. Women are better at verbal skills, they mature at a younger age and are more emotionally developed at younger ages than men. It's a fact.

These things are widely acknowledged in our society. Nobody claims they're sexist against men. They're just true, period.

However, it's become "sexist" to even hint that there "may" be some things men are better at than women.

It's no secret men are more visually oriented, and studies have shown men to be better at things that require spacial recognition, like even things as drab (and undesirable) as working a backhoe.

And on that note, why are there no complaints that there are few women backhoe drivers? It's obvious; they don't like that type of thing. So when people ask this same question about what's seen to be "desirable" careers, the answer always has to be: discrimination by males.

It's just a completely silly discussion if you're not going to be honest about the realities of the differences in likes, dislikes, etc., between men and women.

I don't see that I've said anything outrageous or sexist here, yet I have no doubt I'll be censored, or at least flamed for making this post.

 

MP

 

See right there lies the problem here. By "facing reality" you lump all people into certain groups which dismisses each person's unique abilities. Sure GENERALLY SPEAKING women have significantly less upper body strength than men, but there are SOME women that are perfectly capable of handling a steadicam. Not ALL women want to be construction workers but there are female construction workers, I know, I've seen them. Reality is as much perception as it is fact. It's like saying blacks IN GENERAL do less well on their SATs than whites therefore no blacks should be allowed to attend collage, That is patently absurd as patently absurd as saying women don't want to work under these conditions or can't lift and carry that so they should be allowed to even try. If a women has to take a few more breaks than a man while operating a steadicam, to me that's just leveling the playing field, no different than integrating schools in the 60s. Just because someone has a little more trouble doing the work than someone else, doesn't mean the work won't be good and if the work is good, who care it it takes 20 or 30 minutes longer to get it. I've heard these arguments before about how some people aren't capable of doing this and don't want to do that and really have no business being there. I heard them in the 50s and 60s when people talked about blacks wanting to stay with their own kind and how they didn't have the intelligence of the white man to do certain jobs. I heard them on films from the 40s when Hitler talked about the inferiority of the Jews. I know you're not a bigot, but when you start making statements about a group rather than the individuals within that group you reduce the humanity of everyone in that group to a stereotype and that is a dangerous thing to do because to loose the unique qualities that each in the group possess and never benefit from the gifts they have to offer. B)

Edited November 20, 2007 by James Steven Beverly

[Dan Salzmann]

What exactly is the point of this thread?

Is it to moan? encourage? show how "liberated" we are?

I work with some great female 1st and 2nd AC's as well as a really good gaffer.

They don't get hired because they are women, they get hired because they are really good at what they do.

OK, in todays "male-dominated" world it is more difficult for women in all sectors. Sorry, not my fault.

Come on ladies if you want to do it well put the spurs on and get out there and do it.

Yes it's difficult but not impossible. Go! Go! Go!

[Aideen McCarthy]

All I can add to this discussion is a female perspective of someone who has worked in the Camera Department for five years and since moved into Directing.

Things that made me want to join the Camera Department:

It seemed like it would be fun! I've been a movie buff my whole life and getting paid to make films seemed like the ideal job.

It seemed to me the camera department was at the centre of things on a set and that's where I wanted to be, in the thick of things where I could learn the most about filmmaking.

I watched the making of 'From Dusk Til Dawn' and was converted.

Things that discouraged me:

My Dad was a civil servant and my Mom was a housewife and mother to three kids. While I was encouraged in art, music (and dance!) growing up, it was never their intention that these would be anything more than hobbies. That's how I ended up with a law degree!

At the end of my degree I decided to make a break for it- it was now or never. And I knew once I got started on the high salary of a lawyer I would find it very difficult to ever leave it. So I eased my parents into it with a one year Masters in Film Studies - supposedly to get it out of my system! Unfortunately for my parents I caught the film bug - for which there is as yet no cure. I became a camera trainee.

Things that caused me to stop and think:

The worry I was putting my parents through as I struggled to get work as a camera trainee.

The low wage I was receiving when I was working.

The fact that I was living at home because I couldn't afford to move out.

The fact that my older brother (an accountant) thought I had gone insane and tried to talk me out of the film business on several occasions.

The fact that all my college friends were by now buying houses, going on holidays, buying nice clothes and also thought I had gone insane. They couldn't relate to me anymore so I felt quite isolated.

I couldn't plan ahead for anything because I didn't know when the next job was going to come.

Things about the job I found hard to deal with at first:

The fact that I was the lowest on the food chain. Coming from being trained to be an argumentative and pompous lawyer (I didn't need that much training) it was a bitter pill to swallow to become the grunt - getting teas and coffees, being told what to do without being able to share your opinion, being dog's body carrying around people's personal belongings as well as the gear. I was also used to being treated like a girl - people offering to lift things, people talking to me using polite terms. Now I was being treated just like one of the guys and it took some getting used to. Basically my ego got bruised.

Things I loved about the job:

I loved the CAMERAdery - there was always a great buzz in the camera car in the mornings and on wrap and usually all day long.

It was great working as part of such an elite team on the set. People respect the camera 'boys'.

It was great being the only girl in the camera dept because all the other people on set respect you all the more for being able to hack it in one of the most pressurized departments.

It was also great not being the only girl in the camera department sometimes. There are some things that guys just can't relate to:)

It was great being able to learn so much about filmmaking because I was able to be on set so much, not like the trainee a.d. stuck directing traffic two miles down the road.

I got to see so many amazing sunrises and sunsets and got to go to so many cool locations.

Unlike other departments on set the camera department is always busy so I was never bored.

The list goes on and on - I love the camera department.

Why I left the camera department to become a director:

Again I felt like it was now or never time. My experience on set made me realise that while I would enjoy being a Director Of Photography my dream was to be a Director. And as was mentioned earlier women have a ticking time-bomb, namely their uterus. If I want to have my cake and eat it I better get cracking. (I'm 27)

Why a director and not a DP? I have to say I am not a techno geek and I think a good DP has to be many things, as was mentioned previously. One of these is an interest and proficiency in all things technical to do with lighting and cameras. This is an ongoing learning process for any DP and one which should not be undertaken lightly. If you don't have the passion for it, its not going to work.

Also I'm a bit of a control freak. I wanted to have my hand in every aspect of the film, the actors, the set design, the editing...everything. I wanted to implement a vision of the script from beginning to end, surrounding myself with talented people to help me do it.

Finally

I have never knowingly not got a job because I was a girl, though I have had to work hard against the assumption that I can't do the physical side of the job because I'm slim-built. If you are determined enough you can do anything and having a good attitude goes a long way when you're working as part of a team.

I had a successful 5 year stint in the Camera Department in Ireland where I was lucky to work with some very talented DPs, operators, focus pullers, clapper loaders and trainees and I don't regret a second of it. I never did work under a female DP but I did work under amazing female 2nd A.C.s (Sarah Francis, Jessica Drum among others). And on my very last job as a loader I had two female trainees who were both aspiring DPs. So give it a few more years and hopefully you'll see a few more women creating visual delights!

[Hal Smith]

All I can add to this discussion is a female perspective of someone who has worked in the Camera Department for five years and since moved into Directing................................And on my very last job as a loader I had two female trainees who were both aspiring DPs. So give it a few more years and hopefully you'll see a few more women creating visual delights!

You'd enjoy meeting my daughter Lillian. She went through grade and high school getting straight A's and very strong in science and math. She enjoyed drawing but didn't think of it as a vocation. She went on to college at William and Mary, decided on a major in Anthropology but somewhere around her third year decided to take advantage of W&M's strong Art Department and ended up dual majoring in Art and Anthropology. She took an intern artist job in W&M's Publications Department on graduation, was asked if she wanted to sign a year contract after a month or so, worked there for a year - and now is in her first real job. She's working at Loyola of Baltimore as an artist in their Publications Department and loving her job, the people she's working with (she's awed by them all being seasoned professionals and very good at what they do), and loving Baltimore.

 

I take a bit of credit for all of the above: The one piece of Dad's advice about life she took to heart was my telling her that finding something you really liked doing for a profession was the most important thing in life. There's nothing worse than spending one-third of your awake hours at something you hate - no matter what the material awards. A life lesson you figured out for yourself. :)

 

We've been talking about doing a film project together at some point. I quite by accident fathered an Art Director!

[Phil Rhodes]

> I loved the CAMERAdery - there was always a great buzz in the camera car in the mornings

> and on wrap and usually all day long.

 

Good grief, is this the same UK I live in?!

 

Phil

[Guest]

Ok so I'm a bit confused. In the previous thread on this topic that got closed down, Brad pointed out the following:

 

We have quite a few, although not as many as there are men.

Penelope Spheeris

Amy Heckerling

Penny Marshall

Mira Nair

Mimi Leder

Jane Campion

Kathryn Bigelow

Tamara Jenkins

Nora Ephron

Kimberly Pierce

Julie Taymor

Niki Caro

Catherine Hardwicke

Sofia Coppola

Those are a few. I know I'm missing many more. These women I've listed have made all kinds of films, and their work speaks for itself.

According to Wikipedia, "Alice Guy-Blaché made the very first feature film La fée aux choux in 1896."

So women directors aren't as uncommon as many people think.

 

 

So the issue is what now? According to Brad's info there are a lot of women directors. Is the issue that they don't helm 100 million dollar movies and therefore don't get as much exposure?

 

R,

[Julia Gers]

Hehe, well you're welcome on my crew any time if you're volunteering to wake up at 4AM in the freezing cold to set up sunrise shots. :)

Yay!

 

 

See right there lies the problem here. By "facing reality" you lump all people into certain groups which dismisses each person's unique abilities. Sure GENERALLY SPEAKING women have significantly less upper body strength than men, but there are SOME women that are perfectly capable of handling a steadicam. Not ALL women want to be construction workers but there are female construction workers, I know, I've seen them. Reality is as much perception as it is fact. It's like saying blacks IN GENERAL do less well on their SATs than whites therefore no blacks should be allowed to attend collage, That is patently absurd as patently absurd as saying women don't want to work under these conditions or can't lift and carry that so they should be allowed to even try. If a women has to take a few more breaks than a man while operating a steadicam, to me that's just leveling the playing field, no different than integrating schools in the 60s. Just because someone has a little more trouble doing the work than someone else, doesn't mean the work won't be good and if the work is good, who care it it takes 20 or 30 minutes longer to get it. I've heard these arguments before about how some people aren't capable of doing this and don't want to do that and really have no business being there. I heard them in the 50s and 60s when people talked about blacks wanting to stay with their own kind and how they didn't have the intelligence of the white man to do certain jobs. I heard them on films from the 40s when Hitler talked about the inferiority of the Jews. I know you're not a bigot, but when you start making statements about a group rather than the individuals within that group you reduce the humanity of everyone in that group to a stereotype and that is a dangerous thing to do because to loose the unique qualities that each in the group possess and never benefit from the gifts they have to offer. B)

Yes! Exactly! and I agree.

 

 

What exactly is the point of this thread?

Just to discuss. I didn't mean for this to be to come to any kind of conclusions, or to figure out some huge mystery. I just wanted to discuss it some more (after the previous thread had been closed) and give other women on this thread a chance to give their opinion.

[Andy_Alderslade]

I couldn't help find the 'issue' of female strength for work amusing, look what a teenage girl is capable of (and in perfect form):

 

 

I wonder how many of the forum users here could squat 135bl with such ease!

 

The body adapts, be it male or female.

[Leo Anthony Vale]

2. Remote location shoots, especially low budget. If you're going to be shooting some movie out in the deserts of Tunisia for months on end, for example, and your "accommodations" are very rough - living in group tents or barracks, no AC, limited laundry, showers, etc, a lot of women do not like these types of conditions. Guys - as long as they're not wussies! - are more likely to put up with "military" style conditions.

 

Ever see any of Leni Riefenstahl's early mountain climbing movies made with Dr.Franck?

 

She is running barefoot up rock spires.

&she was scuba diving in her 90s.

[David Mullen ASC]

The thing is that there are many variations in athletic prowess. We tend to traditionally fixate on ones that men tend to have more of or are better at, like lifting power or speed in short bursts, but there are other qualities like steady endurance over long periods of time which seem (to me) are less dominated by one sex.

 

But again, we're not talking about whether women would do well in the NFL, we're talking about filmmaking.

[Guest Stephen Murphy]

Interesting how this topic can get so heated in this day and age.

 

When i was a new assistant one of the first assistants to train me was a woman. She had just come off a string of high profile movies like Armageddon and The Green Mile, and not as a dayplayer either. She had a very slim build but that did not stop her from functioning as a superb AC. There are many ways to effectively move a Panaflex loaded with a 10:1 zoom and 1000ft magazine, from point a to point b on the set; carrying it on your shoulder isn't high on that list. She was an excellent AC and now has a successful career as a camera operator because of her skillset, attitude and how she applied herself to her job.

When i was training as a Steadicam Operator one of the tutors i had at the SOA workshop was a woman. She was just as effective an operator as any of her male colleagues, even though she was half their size.

 

You don't need to be built like a football player to be a good assistant or a good steadicam op. I'm a big guy so Im speaking from experience. All experienced steadicam ops rest the rig between takes, and hydrate properly so that they can get the shot accurately and safely and continue to function to the same level of accuracy for the rest of the working day, followed by the rest of the working week, month, year etc - thats just good sense.

There have been plenty of times when my size and strength have helped me in my career as both an assistant and operator and equally times when thats hindered me. That has nothing to do with my sex but my own personal physical attributes and mindset and how i choose to apply them.

I dont get hired because im a physicaly big steadicam op - i get hired because im a good steadicam op. Same goes for Janice Arthur, Laurie Hayball, Liz Ziegler etc

 

I've been very fortunate to work for, and with, some terrific female assistants, and ive been exceedingly fortunate to have some fantastic female assistants work for me when i was operating or lighting. And none of them have ever been unable to perform to the highest level because of their sex.

[Brad Grimmett]

According to Brad's info there are a lot of women directors. Is the issue that they don't helm 100 million dollar movies and therefore don't get as much exposure?

 

R,

If not $100 million, then very close. Mimi Leder directed Deep Impact, which I believe had a $75 million budget.

[Annie Wengenroth]

Speaking from my own experience, I don't even weigh 100 lbs (maybe with my belt on! :-P), I'm 5'5", and I can carry around a Panaflex all day. Yeah, it's heavy, but it's not like, "OMG!!1! This weighs a ton, I can't do it, I need a big strong man to help me!1!" Plus I think David Mullen made a good point...that there are many ways to move the gear and many of the ones that are SAFER, require more than one set of hands anyway.

 

I have a good friend and mentor who's a 1st AC in the union. She was the only person I knew when I first came to New York and she definitely has helped me out, from day one of scrubbing cases at CSC, onward to now. She has told me time and again that it's hard to be a woman in this industry. And sure, maybe it is. But personally, I think it's time to transcend gender barriers in this industry...hell, in ANYWHERE. It's hard to be a PERSON in the film industry. The hours are long whether you're a guy or a girl. The gear is heavy whether you're a guy or a girl. Everyone gets tired, annoyed, hungry, sore, cold, hot, etc. There are universal skills you develop in your chosen line of work, and universal skills that you might not...and every single person is wired differently, so why bother drawing any comparisons between apples, oranges, mangoes, and pineapples...you get my drift. I'm good at working with cameras but I suck at math, but I can play the piano, and I can't sew for poop, so where does that leave me? Forget the boys vs girls battle, it's over...the plot has thickened.

 

I know there are biological differences between men and women (way to state the obvious!) but I also know that things have changed over the years and they are continuing to change. It's happening on a social level and even on a physical level...the bar has been set a little higher for women in sports...the standards are starting to match up to that of the men....and women are stronger now in general (I think so anyway), than they were 10-20 years ago. I mean, I don't have any statistics to prove this, but it's just something I've noticed. Come on, look at professional softball...or the WNBA.

 

I think maybe it's because we've kinda risen to the occasion. How many times have women been told "You can't do this because you're a girl" and the response is "Oh yeah?? Watch me!" It happens a lot. I think it will keep happening and that's cool. I have never run into any sexist treatment on set because of my gender. I have run into people doubting that I can do my job because of my size, but nothing beyond that. I don't think I've been treated any differently due to being a woman, either. If I have, I haven't even wasted the energy in worrying about it.

 

I know that's not every woman's story in this business and that makes me sad. Maybe it's time to stop wondering WHY there aren't as many women behind the camera, and just start doing something about it. I don't think it's the battlefield for us that it probably was even a decade ago but of course it's still not quite a level playing field either. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression I get now. If anything, I have noticed more GUYS on set being sexually harassed and inappropriately treated by WOMEN on the job, mostly attention-starved actresses. So maybe we need to focus more on just treating each other like people; this is a complex issue and it's not as simple to say "It's not a women's job" anymore.

 

Just my [lengthy] 2 cents thus far. If you guys haven't seen the documentary "Women Behind The Camera", look it up...it's a really inspiring film. There is a book that goes with it too.

 

I would write more but I'm distracted by South Park so, cheerio!

[James Steven Beverly]

I have noticed more GUYS on set being sexually harassed and inappropriately treated by WOMEN on the job, mostly attention-starved actresses.

 

We, ahhhh ACTUALLY don't really mind that all that much. In fact most of us don't get enough sexual harassment as a rule and would prefer more so IF you do know any good looking, you know tall blond well built attention-starved actresses out there that want to treat us inappropriately please let them know it's perfectly OK and we are more than happy to give them as much attention as they require. Just FYI :rolleyes:

[Chris Keth]

And I'd say that also exists in us men who are artistically inclined and capable, which helps us succeed as cinematographers. My father (obviously male) is a retired art professor and painter who can spot subtleties in hue and saturation well beyond what I can even see.

 

Mauve: ;)

 

It's certainly not absent in men and it can be learned to some degree. I did a standard color vision test in school when I took photo tech classes at RIT and I scored in the best one-half percent. The test was quite fun, too. My point was that women are statistically better at that without training.

 

Possibility for tetrachromatism is only a female trait, though.

[Chris Keth]

SOME women have better color vision than men, but for the most part, things are about equal, unless you're comparing a woman to a color-blind man. BTW, I know some women that are colorblind. I have better color vision than every single one of them and than every single color-blind man, although, in B&W work, I'd say the colorblind can actually be at an advantage.

 

Read up on your color science. It IS true that, statistically, a randomly chosen woman is more likely to have superior color vision than a randomly chosen man.

 

I'm just talking likelihood. I know that you could find a man with vastly superior color vision than a particular woman.