Mike Washlesky Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 So a guy at Heavy Light in NY mentioned a new Sony camera that is being billed as the latest CineAlta but is available for $8K (US). Am I hearing this right? $8K? If anyone know what camera this might be, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted February 5, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted February 5, 2008 He's probably referring to the new Sony XDCAM EX: http://www.sony.ca/xdcamex/ But I don't think it's part of the CineAlta line-up: http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusin...oot/index.shtml The F23 and F900R are the latest CineAlta cameras, and they aren't $8,000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Washlesky Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Thats what I thought it might be, the XDCAM. but this guy was swearing up and down it was being referred to as the CineAlta. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Washlesky Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Sorry, XDCAM EX. I am assuming thats the one. Too small for my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted February 5, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted February 5, 2008 Sorry, XDCAM EX. I am assuming thats the one. Too small for my taste. I saw that one at Comtel a few weeks ago. It's full 1920 x 1080 three chip, but 1/2" -- a high end pro-sumer camera. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Washlesky Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hmm. Its cute I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted February 5, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted February 5, 2008 IIRC, ik saw a sony add for their CineAlta line somewhere, and it had the XDCAmEX pictured at the bottom of it. I also though most XDcams have a cinealta logo on them? I mean it's just branding, but that could be what it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Washlesky Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 IIRC, ik saw a sony add for their CineAlta line somewhere, and it had the XDCAmEX pictured at the bottom of it. I also though most XDcams have a cinealta logo on them? I mean it's just branding, but that could be what it is? Thats interesting. Do you remember where you saw that ad? I am curious if they are now just using that name now for marketing, and not in reference to one particular camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted February 5, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted February 5, 2008 I belive it was in POST magazine, talking about Sony's HDNA or something like that. I can check it when i get back to my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Washlesky Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 I belive it was in POST magazine, talking about Sony's HDNA or something like that. I can check it when i get back to my house. Yeah, thanks. Mui appreciado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted February 5, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted February 5, 2008 If you go to the sony site, then collateral and brochure, on page 10 of the pdf, youll notive the cinealta engraving. .. http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusin...mEX_index.shtml http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusin...camEX_broch.pdf (page 10 of this pdf) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted February 5, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted February 5, 2008 He's probably referring to the new Sony XDCAM EX:http://www.sony.ca/xdcamex/ If you watch this clip you can see that it says CineAlta on the side of the camera. From what I understand "CineAlta" is just a name for a line of cameras, not a name of a particular camera. I heard this from someone a few months ago and thought it odd, but it appears to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Washlesky Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 If you go to the sony site, then collateral and brochure, on page 10 of the pdf, youll notive the cinealta engraving. ..http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusin...mEX_index.shtml http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusin...camEX_broch.pdf (page 10 of this pdf) Wow. You're right. There it is, plain as day. So what gives? Now the term "CineAlta" has no real meaning now besides being a marketing tool. Just like HD Radio. HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Mulder Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The guy here at Panavision Auckland said it was branded with the Cinealta logo in part due to the fact it was built in the same factory as the rest of the higher end range, I think he inferred it was also designed by the same people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Whitehouse Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The guy here at Panavision Auckland said it was branded with the Cinealta logo in part due to the fact it was built in the same factory as the rest of the higher end range, I think he inferred it was also designed by the same people. Yeah I think the "Cinealta" branding refers to the design team behind the product. Its also a marketing exercise. Looks like a great little camera, 1/2 inch chips make it interesting but its a pity that they haven't updated the HDV codec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted February 5, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted February 5, 2008 The guy here at Panavision Auckland said it was branded with the Cinealta logo in part due to the fact it was built in the same factory as the rest of the higher end range, I think he inferred it was also designed by the same people. Yes, I heard it was from Atsuga. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Washlesky Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 The guy here at Panavision Auckland said it was branded with the Cinealta logo in part due to the fact it was built in the same factory as the rest of the higher end range, I think he inferred it was also designed by the same people. So is the CineAlta not made by Sony? Or is there a single, Sony manufacturing "factory" that only makes CineAlta branded cameras? And now as DP's should we refer to the CineAlta we all know, now as the CineAlta 900/950 to distinguish it from these other imposters! It seems weird you spend years putting out the CineAlta as a singular name into the filmmaking community, and then water it down with branded prosumer cameras. But I guess that will help it's sales of course. And you can wow your clients with your very own CineAlta. Sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Haas Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 The camera does indead say CineAlta on the side because it was designed by the design team that makes the CineAlta cameras. This explains a number of the cameras features like semi decent manual controls on the lens and 1/2" chips. It seems that their other engineers havn't been able to get their head around such concepts so I am glad they handed this project over to the CineAlta team. Strangely their consumer division has also come out with a new prosumer HDV camera in the same price range. It is tape based HDV with an optional CF adapter that lets you record to compact flash. Hopefully they will also come out with an SxS card adapter so that their can be some sort of compatibility between the two cameras. Since it is a tape based camera it is not capable of the higher bitrate that the EX is. I have been told that the higher bitrate produces a significant improvement in picture quality. What I am really psyched about is the 1/2" chips since it seems that stuffing that many pixels into 1/3" chips has resulted in a bunch of cameras with rather noisy images. If you want to check out the EX I know that Gear recently got one. ~Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Belanger Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I've been shooting with the camera for about a week. It is indeed branded with a CineAlta badge. 1920 x 1080 chips, 35 mbps recording rate using the same mpeg 2 codec as the other XDCAMs, but recording to solid state cards. The lens is a very decent Fujinon, fixed, with full manual controls. One of the really nice features is a fully 10-bit HD-SDI output so it can be recorded to HDCAM, DVC Pro HD, etc. Will it produce the same image as an HDCAM? No. But the street price is about $6,500 It's a direct competitor to the Panasonic HVX-200 and seems to produce a slightly better image with 1/3 the bandwidth. Plus it has 1/2" chips for "better" depth of field. So a guy at Heavy Light in NY mentioned a new Sony camera that is being billed as the latest CineAlta but is available for $8K (US). Am I hearing this right? $8K? If anyone know what camera this might be, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Washlesky Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 I've been shooting with the camera for about a week. It is indeed branded with a CineAlta badge. 1920 x 1080 chips, 35 mbps recording rate using the same mpeg 2 codec as the other XDCAMs, but recording to solid state cards. The lens is a very decent Fujinon, fixed, with full manual controls. One of the really nice features is a fully 10-bit HD-SDI output so it can be recorded to HDCAM, DVC Pro HD, etc. Will it produce the same image as an HDCAM? No. But the street price is about $6,500 It's a direct competitor to the Panasonic HVX-200 and seems to produce a slightly better image with 1/3 the bandwidth. Plus it has 1/2" chips for "better" depth of field. Interesting. Got any samples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Belanger Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 None myself online yet, but there are several sites out there with clips. There may be one or 2 with full-res MP4s on them, the rest will be recompressed of course. Interesting. Got any samples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Mulder Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 (edited) Had a play with one today. immediate impression coming from a 16mm film user was that it was pretty underwhelming - plasticky (where is the milled/lathed billet aluminium and faux leather;)) , lightweight (remember I'm coming from 40 year old film cameras) and dinky little buttons with the graphics already shop worn - buttons and plugs in odd places my hand didn't fit in the grip and loosening the strap didn't help ... When gripped the eyepiece is in an odd place for me, strain on the arm - holding it by the handle with the LCD wasn't too bad. Lens function/usability, ok (but see below). Transfer of files via my PowerPC G4 (way under spec) worked albeit at the much much slower rate of USB1.1 (almost real time transfer, but with no viewing) - the SxS card simply turned up as disks on the desktop, once the files were across though they worked fine ... This I'm happy with so if I do get an EX for an upcoming project I'm ok keeping my current laptop for transfer only Question >>why cant I just dump directly to any harddisk via firewire or USB2.0 ? - camera>cable>harddisk ... that would be great. Another website complained about the time it took to switch on and go between playback and record modes - talking about 25 seconds or something - no where near that for me - and it has a preview button that lets you see the last take in 1~2seconds - fine by me, recording once in mode is near instantaneous Image looked good, I haven't any experience with much HD to compare though. Now here comes an interesting part - The zoom in manual mode doesn't have enough friction integrated into it so much so that the zoom will creep when held in upright positions - i.e. set zoom to 5.8mm point it upwards watch it sink down by its own weight to around 10mm ... I pointed this out to the salesmen, one seemed interested the other I can only guess thought I was being picky, he said I could simply keep it in servo mode to work around the issue, therefore in his mind there was no issue ... I said for a $10,000 camera (NZ dollars) that I shouldn't expect this to happen, he asked me if I had any experience with $10,000 cameras, I said no to which he kind of snorted and sat back satisfied as if again 'problem solved' - I decided at the time that further discussion wasn't going to help ... (but thought later that I indeed did have experience with cameras worth more than $10,000 and what the hell has the price got to do with it anyway, hell my servo $1500 handicam doesn't have this issue nor do the manual fujinon's and 16mm servo/manual zooms I use) Was I being picky though ? I mean, well what if I wanted a wide shot (that stayed wide) in manual mode (for whatever reason) that pointed up then down ... Is there anything in the manual that says watch out for focal length creep? I'm guessing not as it was news to the salespeople, maybe I came across as a smartypants ... Still though - thinking seriously of getting one ;) Quick question sales couldn't answer without %100 authority >> when shooting 720 does it use less of the sensors thereby decreasing field of view (a crop) or does it use the full 1/2" sensor and do some sort of mathy thing with the data to achieve the 720 ? Edited February 15, 2008 by Nick Mulder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Washlesky Posted February 15, 2008 Author Share Posted February 15, 2008 Had a play with one today. immediate impression coming from a 16mm film user was that it was pretty underwhelming - plasticky (where is the milled/lathed billet aluminium and faux leather;)) , lightweight (remember I'm coming from 40 year old film cameras) and dinky little buttons with the graphics already shop worn - buttons and plugs in odd places my hand didn't fit in the grip and loosening the strap didn't help ... When gripped the eyepiece is in an odd place for me, strain on the arm - holding it by the handle with the LCD wasn't too bad. Lens function/usability, ok (but see below). Transfer of files via my PowerPC G4 (way under spec) worked albeit at the much much slower rate of USB1.1 (almost real time transfer, but with no viewing) - the SxS card simply turned up as disks on the desktop, once the files were across though they worked fine ... This I'm happy with so if I do get an EX for an upcoming project I'm ok keeping my current laptop for transfer only Question >>why cant I just dump directly to any harddisk via firewire or USB2.0 ? - camera>cable>harddisk ... that would be great. Another website complained about the time it took to switch on and go between playback and record modes - talking about 25 seconds or something - no where near that for me - and it has a preview button that lets you see the last take in 1~2seconds - fine by me, recording once in mode is near instantaneous Image looked good, I haven't any experience with much HD to compare though. Now here comes an interesting part - The zoom in manual mode doesn't have enough friction integrated into it so much so that the zoom will creep when held in upright positions - i.e. set zoom to 5.8mm point it upwards watch it sink down by its own weight to around 10mm ... I pointed this out to the salesmen, one seemed interested the other I can only guess thought I was being picky, he said I could simply keep it in servo mode to work around the issue, therefore in his mind there was no issue ... I said for a $10,000 camera (NZ dollars) that I shouldn't expect this to happen, he asked me if I had any experience with $10,000 cameras, I said no to which he kind of snorted and sat back satisfied as if again 'problem solved' - I decided at the time that further discussion wasn't going to help ... (but thought later that I indeed did have experience with cameras worth more than $10,000 and what the hell has the price got to do with it anyway, hell my servo $1500 handicam doesn't have this issue nor do the manual fujinon's and 16mm servo/manual zooms I use) Was I being picky though ? I mean, well what if I wanted a wide shot (that stayed wide) in manual mode (for whatever reason) that pointed up then down ... Is there anything in the manual that says watch out for focal length creep? I'm guessing not as it was news to the salespeople, maybe I came across as a smartypants ... Still though - thinking seriously of getting one ;) Quick question sales couldn't answer without %100 authority >> when shooting 720 does it use less of the sensors thereby decreasing field of view (a crop) or does it use the full 1/2" sensor and do some sort of mathy thing with the data to achieve the 720 ? That is really weird about the lens in manual mode creeping down. I have never experienced anything like that on any smaller format video camera. And the attitude you received from the salesperson is disappointing. Can you post some of the images you captured fromt he camera? I am curious how it looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Haas Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 I had forgotten about this until just now but I experienced lens creep issue with the lens that comes with the jvc hd200. The jvc's lens also breathed like crazy; I wasn't at all happy with it. I have heard that the EX doesn't breath much at all which I hope is true. Can anyone confirm this and tell us whether their EX zoom creeps? ~Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Mulder Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 That is really weird about the lens in manual mode creeping down. I have never experienced anything like that on any smaller format video camera. And the attitude you received from the salesperson is disappointing. Can you post some of the images you captured fromt he camera? I am curious how it looks. Well, yeh - I didn't appreciate the attitude, but not wanting to cement the situation in stone as it could have just been perceptions at fault and maybe one or both of us was reading the other incorrectly so wont name names or places. I will also reiterate the other salesperson who was actually the one helping me was a great guy, really helpful (again, perceptions though ! heh)... I didn't notice any breathing but was not looking for it, so it may be apparent - the creep kinda took centre stage, I wish I didn't waste my time making it happen over and over, and could have tried to 'fix' it by pointing the camera down :rolleyes: - so I'm still not sure if the creep happens in the other direction... As I couldn't use the clip browser and playng the files directly off the SxS chips wouldn't work over USB1.1 (altho I'm hoping this might be possible with a faster connection making the software a little redundant) - well, anyway I had to just guess which clip I wanted, turns out it was just someone pointing the camera at some trees - ho-hum and not worth uploading but I'll endeavour to upload a still There are heaps of examples on the net, I have a couple here - cant remember where from, but a search will yield results ... Mostly from other forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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