k3 questions

[Micah Ellars]

Hi,

 

Can the k3 camera be quieted? I know that Get On The Bus was shot on that camera I have seen production still with Spike shooing it. How did he get it quiet enough so that sound could be recorded on the shoot? Also Is the picture quality that great for the k3? I have seen the movie Get on the Bus and it looked pretty decent to me, but I did not see it projected. Has anyone shot a k3 with the s16mm modification? I am planning on doing just that and was wandering how good the quality is? If it will look good enough and I can get it quiet enough I would like to use it for a production. I know that I need a decent lens and I am panning on converting it to digtial and then the final output will be DVD. If anyone here knows or has used the k3 and feels its quality is high enough to shoot s16 on and there may be a way to quiet it I would love to know. If anyone knows how Spike Lee got it to be quiet in his film please let me know. And if anyone has horror stories about this camera I am interested to hear them.

I would be filmming some chroma scenes and scale models with it. All teh dialogue scenes shot can be synced up in post if I can get the thing to be quiet?

 

Or would I be better of shooting Digital? I only have access to a panasonic DVCpro camera.

[hmc4me]

Hi. Not sure what to tell you. I am about to purchase one of these cameras.

I got a video sample from this website.

http://www.hmoobfilm.com/worksamples.html

thats all the info I can offer you right now.

I am going to shoot some test footage next month (November) of most of kodak's vision and vision 2 stocks and I will post them online when I get them shot.

Hope this helps

Anthony

[Micah Ellars]

Hi. Not sure what to tell you. I am about to purchase one of these cameras.

I got a video sample from this website.

http://www.hmoobfilm.com/worksamples.html

thats all the info I can offer you right now.

I am going to shoot some test footage next month (November) of most of kodak's vision and vision 2 stocks and I will post them online when I get them shot.

Hope this helps

Anthony

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for the link. It was helpful and let me know how your shoot goes, I would like to see a sample of it if possible. Oh and do you know what kind of film that was being shot on that k3?

[hmc4me]

Yea. He said it was an old kodak stock EXR 50D #7245

[René]

I got my K-3 a couple of days ago and I must say it's more noisy than I'd hoped. Fortunately I'm planning a short that doesn't have much dialog in it.

I don't think it's possible to make it quiet enough to go unnoticed in an interior dialog shot. But I've been doing some tests in removing the noise in post. I have had some good results with Adobe Audition (formerly Cool Edit Pro). It can do a great job in removing the noise. Only if it's really loud, your dialog my sound a bit distorted, but when using a setup where the camera isn't too close to the microphone, I think the results can be amazing. I could post some test sound footage if someone is interested.

 

René.

[hmc4me]

I could post some test sound footage if someone is interested.

 

René.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be great. I am interested in seeing any footage anyone has shot with one of these cameras.

If you can when you post the footage can you put down what film stock it was on. I've just moved to 16mm from super8 and I am looking at what can be done with the 16mm film stocks out now.

Next week I am ordering one can each of most of the vision and vision 2 stocks to see what they can do and I will list an online resource as soon as my tests are done. I may also test the fuji and Illford stocks aswell.

Thanks

Anthony

[René]

That would be great. I am interested in seeing any footage anyone has shot with one of these cameras.

If you can when you post the footage can you put down what film stock it was on. I've just moved to 16mm from super8 and I am looking at what can be done with the 16mm film stocks out now.

Next week I am ordering one can each of most of the vision and vision 2 stocks to see what they can do and I will list an online resource as soon as my tests are done. I may also test the fuji and Illford stocks aswell.

Thanks

Anthony

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I've only done sound tests so far. I recorded my voice and the K-3 noise with my video camera and then tried to remove the noise in post. You can hear the original file here and the final version here. (This was an extreme situation, with the K3 next to the microphone, so the final result is more distorted than what you'd usually get.)

I'm in the same situation as you are. I've only shot on super8 before and I'm thinking of buying some vision stocks from filmemporium.com. Does anyone know if they sell short ends in 100ft loads?

I'm also trying to find as much K-3 footage as I can, which is hard. Here's what I've come up with so far:

Clip 1

Clip 2 - You might have to rename this file to .avi

Clip 3

Clip 4 - Shows it can be a pain for timelapse

Clip 5 - Not very useful

Clip 6 - Not very useful either

Clip 7 - As posted here before

If someone has more footage, I'd be very interested to see it.

 

René.

[Micah Ellars]

Rene, is clip #1 really k3 footage??? (the one about the symphony) becuase that is a very impressive image fir 16mm.

 

Please let me know thanks

[René]

Yes it was shot on a K-3. I found this clip at Reel Trading. It's a company that offers K-3 upgrades. They list this clip as an example in their FAQ section.

I feel that clip looks a bit too "clean" to me, more like video, but the compression for the web might have to do with that, or it could be because some shots are pretty brightly exposed. I'm not sure. I especially like the look of the first shot of clip 3.

 

René.

[Micah Ellars]

Thanks again Rene.

 

When you get done with your first shoot on the k3 I would love to see some of the footage. Let me know how it all goes and if you have any problems. If it looks promising enough I might get one upgraded, like the packages on the link you sent me.

[Jonas]

Man, that's great Rene. Im going to make my own tests with the Adobe Audition software. I'll be using my Eyemo though. It's noisy as hell. But maybe with some sort of lightweight barney/blimp. Thanks for the great idea!

 

Cheers,

Jonas

[Javier Calderon]

I know that Get On The Bus was shot on that camera I have seen production still with Spike shooing it.

 

 

So have I. I believe, however, that only PORTIONS of that film were shot on that camera - not the entire film itself. I may be wrong, but I think this was the case.

 

Javier

Edited May 20, 2006 by JavierC

[Kevin Masuda]

Hi,

I have two K3's and they are pretty noisy but thats what you get when working with clockwork. I recently shot my short film on one of them and I was mighty impressed although on some of my footage(the B&W) I had a light leak but other than that I liked it. I haven't seen s16 from a K3 but I heard that it might not be worth the expense to have it converted. The only qualm I have about them is that you have to get those loops right otherwise you can have a jam. I had two jams on my short film and basically lost some footage.

 

Kev

Hi,

 

Can the k3 camera be quieted? I know that Get On The Bus was shot on that camera I have seen production still with Spike shooing it. How did he get it quiet enough so that sound could be recorded on the shoot? Also Is the picture quality that great for the k3? I have seen the movie Get on the Bus and it looked pretty decent to me, but I did not see it projected. Has anyone shot a k3 with the s16mm modification? I am planning on doing just that and was wandering how good the quality is? If it will look good enough and I can get it quiet enough I would like to use it for a production. I know that I need a decent lens and I am panning on converting it to digtial and then the final output will be DVD. If anyone here knows or has used the k3 and feels its quality is high enough to shoot s16 on and there may be a way to quiet it I would love to know. If anyone knows how Spike Lee got it to be quiet in his film please let me know. And if anyone has horror stories about this camera I am interested to hear them.

I would be filmming some chroma scenes and scale models with it. All teh dialogue scenes shot can be synced up in post if I can get the thing to be quiet?

 

Or would I be better of shooting Digital? I only have access to a panasonic DVCpro camera.

[Olex Kalynychenko]

Hi,

I have two K3's and they are pretty noisy but thats what you get when working with clockwork. ...

The only qualm I have about them is that you have to get those loops right otherwise you can have a jam. I had two jams on my short film and basically lost some footage.

 

Kev

 

Hi Kev.

You had jams.

You need modify film channel on style of Kranosgorsk-1 camera.

You need take away plastic leading on film channel, to check gaps between cogs wheel and rollers.

You need keep size of loops and not set big size of loops, especially, upper loop.

 

About base questions.

 

I think, will need divide question of technical quality and price.

You wish buy 16 mm cine camera with price of a few hundreds dollars and wish to have a characteristics of professional cine camera with price for a few tens a thousand dollars.

 

Sorry, but, this is not possible on this world.

Krasnogrosk-3 good camera and can be use for shooting of commercial and music video.

The many film makers confirm this idea and use Krasnogorsk cameras.

If you need camera with low noisy for shooting of dialogues, this can be special low noisy camera with electricalmotor and crystal sync speed, like Arri SR-3.

If you wish camera with high stability of speed shooting, this must be camera with electrical motor and analog or crystal sync speed.

If you wish low cost camera, this can be Kransgorsk-3.

But, if you need 16 mm camera with low price and real professional quality, you need draw attention on russian Kinor-16SX-2M.

Kinor-16 SX-2M, low noisy camera with electrical motor, 100 ft and 400 ft fast replace film magazines.

Kinor have wide set of prime lenses from 6 mm up to 300 mm, zoom lenses 7.5-75 mm, 10-100mm, 12-120mm.

The electrical motor can have analog system of speed stabilization and can be modify on modern microprocessor controlled system with many crystal sync speeds.

 

Krasnogorsk-3 can use any type of 16 mm film, with perforation from one side ( 1R ) and with perforation from two sides ( 2 R ).

 

The next question, what you will have after first footages with Karsnogrosk-3 camera - wide angle lens.

The original zoom lens of Kranosgorsk-3 camera - Meteor-5 17-69 mm have not too wide angle.

And the many film makers wish to use more wide angle lenses.

If you choose Krasogorsk-3 with M42 screw mount, you can use Peleng 8 mm lens, but , this lens have distortion.

If you choose Kranosgorsk-3 with bayonet mount, you can use 10 mm 12.5 mm wide lenses and modified zoom lens of Kinor-16 SX-2M camera 10-100 mm, 7.5-75 mm.

 

You can think, what version of Kransogorsk-3 camera can be better for you.

 

The next idea. Forget about TTL exposure meter of Kranosgorsk-3 camera.

This is primitive exposure meter have big error and big inertia.

That's why, the better, if you will use modern external digital exposure meter.

 

The great sides of Kransogorsk cameras - reliability, simplicity and ready for shooting at any time and at any condition. You take camera and shoot. You not need battery. Kranosgorsk have small size and weigth.

And you will have footages with good qulaity.

[Freya Black]

Okay, lots of things here so it's complicated.

 

Firstly the spike lee film only has small portions shot on the K3, and probably not bits with lots of dialogue.

 

Secondly, it probably is possible to blimp the K3 although this will make your camera a lot bigger! If you use sound soap or cool edit or something to clean up the audio afterwards, you can probably remove any motor sounds that escape.. However, if you are still using the clockwork motor, then you will still have the problem that your motor is wild and hence the dialogue will not stay in sync for very long at all.

 

The picture quality of 16mm looks decent to me but it depends what you call decent and what paticular aspect of the image you are obsessed with.

 

7245/5245 was one of the most beautiful film stocks ever made.

 

There are replacement gates available for the K3, and it can be upgraded to S16 in this way quite easily. Only problem is that the viewfinder won't be upgraded so you will have to keep that in mind while trying to frame your shots. Also the lens won't be centered anymore and it's possible that some wider lenses will end up vignetting in S16, but then again, maybe not. ;) Also if you film and zoom at the same time (Yuk!) then you will get a very strange effect if the lens is not centred.

 

Oh short ends, even if you get say a 90 foot short end, then chances are it will be on a core not a spool, so you will have to re-spool it anyway. Sorry. :( (unless you have some kind of core adaptor???)

 

love

 

Freya

Edited May 20, 2006 by Freya

[Freya Black]

There are replacement gates available for the K3, and it can be upgraded to S16 in this way quite easily. Only problem is that the viewfinder won't be upgraded so you will have to keep that in mind while trying to frame your shots. Also the lens won't be centered anymore and it's possible that some wider lenses will end up vignetting in S16, but then again, maybe not. ;) Also if you film and zoom at the same time (Yuk!) then you will get a very strange effect if the lens is not centred.

 

love

 

Freya

 

 

These compromises are not neccesarily a big deal, the difficulty with framing being the big one, but you know, it's a really, really cheap camera and you get to shoot the same film stocks used on big movie productions, so as Olex says, theres going to be compromises. For some kind of films it may make no difference. Not all films need sync sound, but for others it will be a problem. You have to use your imagination and make it work for you!

 

Also I'm sure there are people who will do a proffesional upgrade of your K3 to S16 and even adjust the viewfinder, but this will be much more expensive than just replacing the gate, and at the other extreme you could file out your gate yourself with a needle file for a ghetto upgrade. It all depends on what compromises you are prepared to make and what risks you are prepared to take, and how much hastle you can put up with.

 

love

 

Freya

[Sir Alvin Ekarma]

FYI: Du-all camera modifies viewfinders of S16 K3s that and the price is verrry reasonable.

Edited May 20, 2006 by Sir Al

[Nate Downes]

You can always perform looping, that is dubbing in dialog in post. If you don't have a lot of dialog, this can work easily.

[Leo Anthony Vale]

You can always perform looping, that is dubbing in dialog in post. If you don't have a lot of dialog, this can work easily.

 

---What if it's a documentary?

 

---LV

[Bryan Darling]

---What if it's a documentary?

 

---LV

 

Use the interviews as voice overs and they become like the narration. You can even show the person who is talking without the sound syncing up. The audience will get the idea. You just have to change your perspective and realize your limitations, then use those artistically to achieve the goal your after.

[Kevin Masuda]

Hi Kev.

You had jams.

You need modify film channel on style of Kranosgorsk-1 camera.

You need take away plastic leading on film channel, to check gaps between cogs wheel and rollers.

You need keep size of loops and not set big size of loops, especially, upper loop.

 

About base questions.

 

I think, will need divide question of technical quality and price.

You wish buy 16 mm cine camera with price of a few hundreds dollars and wish to have a characteristics of professional cine camera with price for a few tens a thousand dollars.

 

Sorry, but, this is not possible on this world.

Krasnogrosk-3 good camera and can be use for shooting of commercial and music video.

The many film makers confirm this idea and use Krasnogorsk cameras.

If you need camera with low noisy for shooting of dialogues, this can be special low noisy camera with electricalmotor and crystal sync speed, like Arri SR-3.

If you wish camera with high stability of speed shooting, this must be camera with electrical motor and analog or crystal sync speed.

If you wish low cost camera, this can be Kransgorsk-3.

But, if you need 16 mm camera with low price and real professional quality, you need draw attention on russian Kinor-16SX-2M.

Kinor-16 SX-2M, low noisy camera with electrical motor, 100 ft and 400 ft fast replace film magazines.

Kinor have wide set of prime lenses from 6 mm up to 300 mm, zoom lenses 7.5-75 mm, 10-100mm, 12-120mm.

The electrical motor can have analog system of speed stabilization and can be modify on modern microprocessor controlled system with many crystal sync speeds.

 

Krasnogorsk-3 can use any type of 16 mm film, with perforation from one side ( 1R ) and with perforation from two sides ( 2 R ).

 

The next question, what you will have after first footages with Karsnogrosk-3 camera - wide angle lens.

The original zoom lens of Kranosgorsk-3 camera - Meteor-5 17-69 mm have not too wide angle.

And the many film makers wish to use more wide angle lenses.

If you choose Krasogorsk-3 with M42 screw mount, you can use Peleng 8 mm lens, but , this lens have distortion.

If you choose Kranosgorsk-3 with bayonet mount, you can use 10 mm 12.5 mm wide lenses and modified zoom lens of Kinor-16 SX-2M camera 10-100 mm, 7.5-75 mm.

 

You can think, what version of Kransogorsk-3 camera can be better for you.

 

The next idea. Forget about TTL exposure meter of Kranosgorsk-3 camera.

This is primitive exposure meter have big error and big inertia.

That's why, the better, if you will use modern external digital exposure meter.

 

The great sides of Kransogorsk cameras - reliability, simplicity and ready for shooting at any time and at any condition. You take camera and shoot. You not need battery. Kranosgorsk have small size and weigth.

And you will have footages with good qulaity.

 

 

Hi Olex,

Funny thing, the camera that had the jams was a k3 from KievUSA. The loop formers were taken out and it was professionally cleaned and modified.

 

Kev

[Joe Gioielli]

I have a k3 and have shot with it. Sadly I don't have the know how to post a clip, but the footage was good.

 

This is not the camera for the shoot you are planning. The k3 is basically a really good home movie camera. Fine for silent stuff, but not sound.

 

I have two suggestions, 1 - Rent. This way you get what you need. A proper 16mm and audio set up is many thousands of dollars to own. Renting, though expensive, is still cheaper than owning.

 

2. Use the videocam. Unless you have a lot of cash, video is a godsend for docwork. A 10-1 shooting ratio is not uncommon. And with doco work, you really have to keep the damn thing running all the time. Granted, film is better, but money is a factor. I think you are better off getting all the story on dv, than part of the story on film.

 

Make the best choice for the project overall.

 

Joe

[Leo Anthony Vale]

Use the interviews as voice overs and they become like the narration. You can even show the person who is talking without the sound syncing up. The audience will get the idea. You just have to change your perspective and realize your limitations, then use those artistically to achieve the goal your after.

 

---I didn't say interview.

 

A talking head interview is certainly one of the last things one would want to use a K-3 for.

 

Instead, think of a Fred Wiseman or a Maysles movie. No voice over. Characters in action, going through their daily lives.

 

A K-3 has its limitations.

 

---LV

[Olex Kalynychenko]

Hi Olex,

Funny thing, the camera that had the jams was a k3 from KievUSA. The loop formers were taken out and it was professionally cleaned and modified.

 

Kev

 

I Don't know, what i can answer.

The problem of " jams " can have many sources.

I think, need test and test camera again, study of problem.

 

The base axis of cogs wheel have adjustable washer for adjust of position of cogs wheel and rollers.

Will need check position of The plastic film leader before rolles.

And more other.

[Michael Nash]

Instead, think of a Fred Wiseman or a Maysles movie. No voice over. Characters in action, going through their daily lives.

 

In 20 second increments. And your wrist is going to get mighty sore from winding.

 

With a retrofitted motor, stretch that out to 2.5 minutes. Then spend the next 2.5 minutes reloading. Repeat.

 

I guess that's one definition of "slice" of life. ;-) Many small slices...