a question of MONEY

[Paul Bruening]

Annie,

 

It sounds as though you are trying to figure out something about life that is confronting you through this film making experience. It can help to try to well-up what problem you are looking to solve. Often, it is useful to go straight to your fears since that is where so many problems within anyone can originate. You have already begun to address some of them. That's a wise way to proceed.

[Annie Wengenroth]

Paul,

You're totally right, and the fact that someone I have never even met can pick up on that so easily, is a major wake-up call to me in and of itself. For the moment, I would say one of my biggest fears is of sacrificing too much and getting too little, or nothing, in return. Not to mention, I am truly concerned that I have burned myself out and that the anger and extreme frustration I feel about this business is clouding the passion I used to have. I hesitate to say anything else for fear of incriminating myself or giving people the wrong idea. But the fact remains that the universe is clearly trying to tell me something. I have a few theories which I hope will lead me to peace. For now I'm trying to separate myself from work a little better and concentrate on the creative side of things a little more, just to give myself a different perspective. As for the money this guy owes me, I will not give up...I can only be grateful that I've been luckier in the past and that I'm not alone.

 

Michael, that video cracks me up...sad but true, and pretty funny! Thanks for the link!

[Paul Bruening]

Annie,

 

Here's some stuff from my own life that you might find useful: There are two systems of relating that people frequently use. They can be labeled "selfishness" and "self-sacrifice". When anyone uses either of these as a dominant living system, they may be using it as a compensating system.

 

Humans are social-tribal-pack animals. Moderate self-sacrifice for the good of the group is part of our make-up. At the same time humans are really smart animals and are equally driven by self-interest. A balance of these is a reasonable approach to living in any human situation.

 

In some cases a person might overemphasize one of these systems as a protective measure. Our de-tribalized society can be scary as there are so few methods to determine the trustworthiness of most people. One way to protect oneself from others is to become selfish. By filling yourself with yourself you reduce the presence of others in you and automatically deny them the opportunity to hurt you. Inversely, by becoming a self-sacrificer one can allow the presence of others in them but survive mishaps by being incredibly flexible with their internal spaces and processes.

 

There is a tendency for selfish people to compensate further for their sensation of loss of social presence by obsessively controlling others. It is not unusual to find couple pairings where one person is excessively selfish and must live inside the mind-spaces of a self-sacrificer. Likewise, the self-sacrificer needs the presence of a selfish person within them to give vitality to their excessive sacrifice.

 

Both these systems are more commonly inherited from parental patterns. That makes it difficult for the inheritor (child grown to adult) to spot the patterns as they seem invisibly integral to existence. It is easier for children of abuse to spot since they have memory of the events that led to the enforcement of the pattern. These two patterns often go hand-in-hand as in the example of alcohol abuse. Both the inherited pattern and the expressed pattern manifest between repeating generations. That's not to say that these patterns show up only in extremely abusive families. The patterns can be repeated on a very subtle basis. That's when the trauma value is low but the invisibility of the patterns is high.

 

Of course, I am not implying any of this about your, personal life. These are just generalized statements. Yet, if you know this stuff about people, it can make it a little easier to understand and survive other people's selfishness and destructive behavior. As well, it might help you moderate and balance your own tendencies.

[Bruce Taylor]

Wow, Paul. I had no idea you were such the psychologist. The talents here at cinematography.com!

 

I have to say your comments and observations ring true, the pendulum that swings between the dominant (selfish) and compliant (self sacrificing) is an interesting one. The more highly dominant one party is, the more compliant the other must be for any sort of relationship to work. And I mean "work" as in operate, even if the workings are disfunctional and destructive.

 

Annie, the good thing about reaching your absolute limit as you have here is that you are recognizing the path that got you there. We really only have the power to change our own behaviors, and that's not easy to do.

 

Best,

 

Bruce Taylor

[Brian Dzyak]

I've always detested the saying, "The cream always rises to the top" when it is spoken in relation to this business. It just doesn't. Are there really good people out there working and making a great living? Of course! Are ALL the people who are great at doing things in the film industry still working in it? No. Why? Because it takes more than skill to build a financially successful career.

 

In addition to personality, there is that "luck" factor which is something we can't really control. We can certainly do things to create opportunities that will hopefully lead to greater success, but when a career is really dependent upon someone else hiring us (for whatever reasons they choose to do so), there's a limit to how much we can actually do to achieve that goal. The other part of the equation is those other people with the power to hire and they have their own agendas that are out of our hands.

 

So the best thing to do is just stay passionate about what we want to do in this life and maintain a standard of living so that we aren't forced into jobs we really don't want to do just to pay the bills. Easier said than done of course, but that really is the key to long term survival in any business. Keep low-overhead expenses so that the slow times aren't nail-biters and save those acorns when business is good. And whenever possible, spread out the clientele so that if one client stiffs you on a paycheck, you're not ruined because you've also got checks coming in from others.

[Annie Wengenroth]

Well, according to the phone call I just got, because I threatened legal action, I am now off the job and acted "unprofessionally". I think at this point, the concept of being "professional" is irrelevant...if all I'm going to be told is that I will get paid when the producer feels like it, I can't deal with that. I'm well aware that I said many things I technically shouldn't have said, but I absolutely don't care because I have HAD IT with these people. The DP has done nothing to back me up on this and for all I know, now HE'S avoiding my phone calls too. I feel helpless.

 

There are two other people who are also waiting on their money...they haven't been on the job in months. I was just the last one to continue hanging in there. And I can't do it anymore. I've tried being nice...I've tried being patient...I've given too much of myself for too little, and my trust in this business has been destroyed by the people who could care less about paying their crew on time and being honest about what is actually going on. I've been blindly struggling in this industry for 3 years. Which is not long...but in another 3 years I will be 30...and I do not want to be fighting the same fight when I'm 30 f*cking years old. I don't have time for luck and I have completely lost my patience. At this point, I just want my stuff back, and my money first.

 

...Paul...does this constitute "selfish" behavior?

[Brian Dzyak]

Well, according to the phone call I just got, because I threatened legal action, I am now off the job and acted "unprofessionally". I think at this point, the concept of being "professional" is irrelevant...if all I'm going to be told is that I will get paid when the producer feels like it, I can't deal with that. I'm well aware that I said many things I technically shouldn't have said, but I absolutely don't care because I have HAD IT with these people. The DP has done nothing to back me up on this and for all I know, now HE'S avoiding my phone calls too. I feel helpless.

 

There are two other people who are also waiting on their money...they haven't been on the job in months. I was just the last one to continue hanging in there. And I can't do it anymore. I've tried being nice...I've tried being patient...I've given too much of myself for too little, and my trust in this business has been destroyed by the people who could care less about paying their crew on time and being honest about what is actually going on. I've been blindly struggling in this industry for 3 years. Which is not long...but in another 3 years I will be 30...and I do not want to be fighting the same fight when I'm 30 f*cking years old. I don't have time for luck and I have completely lost my patience. At this point, I just want my stuff back, and my money first.

 

...Paul...does this constitute "selfish" behavior?

 

I've only left one job in my career. I agonized over it for a while, but I talked with some other ACs before I made any decisions and one piece of advice really sealed it for me. One person said, "They need you more than you need them." Know YOUR own value and don't let it bother you too much. If they are choosing to be unprofessional by not holding up to their end of the agreement, then THEY are the ones who are "unprofessional" no matter what excuses or names they throw your way. You did your job and should get paid for it. When they failed to honor that "contract," they became the bad guy.

 

By the way, on that job I left, I went to the UPM and told her that I was leaving but I'd give her time to find a replacement and I didn't leave until someone did come in. The day after we had that discussion, the ENTIRE Electric Department walked so it wasn't just me that was having issues with that production. So, since others on your project have also had issues with that company, clearly THEY are being unprofessional, not you or anyone else. You SHOULD publish the name of the company AND the names of the individuals who are withholding payment. It will keep them from being able to exploit others who might otherwise not know what they are getting themselves into.

[Rob Vogt]

Especially if they are going to be looking for a new AC now, I'd like to be warned and warn my friends if possible. It's amazing the relationship between the DP and AC can go with such indifference. From my experience when I'm DPing or ACing the relationship between the DP and AC is one of the strongest and most important ones. It determines the speed and efficiency of the entire camera department.

[Annie Wengenroth]

Rob,

I agree with you about the DP/AC dynamic. I'm pretty hurt and disappointed that this DP does not seem to be more supportive of me in regards to this situation. I've told him over and over that I'm not trying to drag him into any drama and I love working with him, but that unlike him, I did NOT defer my pay and can't work that way.

 

In many ways, I saw this coming from miles away, I just didn't trust myself to realize it and thought I was being paranoid.

 

Anyway, the production as you know is called Grasslands. The producer's name is Giancarlo LoRusso. Like I said, I highly doubt you will hear much about them. I should have just stayed away from this job from the start. I seem to have developed this complex that I can be the one to walk in and save any bad job from themselves and rise above the bullsh*t...clearly I cannot.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

found this awhile ago; could be a useful little spot for things like this:

 

http://hollywoodcrewblacklist.blogspot.com/

[Paul Bruening]

...Paul...does this constitute "selfish" behavior?

 

Given that your previous, reported behavior set seemed heavy in the sacrifice category, some measure of selfishness might help bring your world back into a more useful balance. It's certainly worth risking a new way to do things since your previous methods weren't serving you to your needs.

[Freya Black]

Given that your previous, reported behavior set seemed heavy in the sacrifice category, some measure of selfishness might help bring your world back into a more useful balance. It's certainly worth risking a new way to do things since your previous methods weren't serving you to your needs.

 

You have an intresting perspective on this Paul!

 

Heres my take on the same thing.

 

Basically there are 3 types of people. I like to call them "the good, the bad, and the ugly".

 

The thing is that the good people aren't really good and the bad people aren't really bad, they are just trapped in certain ways of thinking. "it's in their nature". In my opinion it relates to the amount of conscience people have. Some people have basically none whatsoever (see Harry Lime/Regina George etc) sociopathic people basically, others are kind of the opposite like Grace in dogville. The other people, the ones I call "the ugly" are kind of like floating voters, they arent purely one thing or the other, they can go either way.

 

The good people and the bad people aren't really good or bad in the way we think of them because they are often not making decisions. They are trapped in a certain way of thinking. For example in it's a wonderful life, the angel manipulates the main character by jumping off the bridge into the water. He knows what kind of a charcacter the lead is, and that he won't even hesitate to jump in and try and save him. Sociopathic people on the other hand really struggle to care about others than themselves. They may work things out in a logical way to the aim of achieving goals. Other people are just objects to be used. It's very sad.

 

People tend to project themselves onto other people, as basically we only have experience of what goes on in our own heads for the most part. Society tends to re-inforce this for some, often talking about the conscience that everyone has, it's talked about in a taken as read type way. The trouble is it's a lie. It has been suggested that about 1 in 25 people are sociopathic. You meet these people all the time but maybe don't know it.

 

For many when they first have a strong interaction with a sociopathic person, they can find themselves really struggling to understand what is going on in the persons head. They may say to themselves, they didn't really mean that but things that the sociopathic person does don't seem to make sense. It can be very disturbing. Honestly if men are from mars and women from venus then sociopaths must be from somwhere very distant like vulcan or something. Once you accept and understand the other party has no conscience it is easier tho. Sometimes people are so alienated they claim that sociopaths aren't really people. Of course they are tho, they just have a very different way of thinking.

 

Unfortunately sociopaths are often very charismatic and fantastic mimics. They are shrewd experts at manipulating people, and people tend to endlessly forgive them or have other strange reactions to them.

 

I think often some of the nicer sociopathic people have no idea they are different either. They too think everyone is the same as them and they project themselves on other people. They will also say quite shocking things, I feel because they don't realise how shocking they are being. See Harry Lime at the top of the ferris wheel. Others who are starting to cross the line into being psychpathic may do the same thing just for the enjoyment of messing with someone.

 

The good and the bad people, are both beautiful in their own way but their viewpoints are unhealthy.

 

It's best to get ugly. ;)

 

love

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

And get your personal gear back in your hands and out of their ASAP!

 

YES!

 

No 1 priority!

 

ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

love

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Rob,

I agree with you about the DP/AC dynamic. I'm pretty hurt and disappointed that this DP does not seem to be more supportive of me in regards to this situation. I've told him over and over that I'm not trying to drag him into any drama and I love working with him, but that unlike him, I did NOT defer my pay and can't work that way.

 

In many ways, I saw this coming from miles away, I just didn't trust myself to realize it and thought I was being paranoid.

 

Annie, you have to let this go.

Even if you sued these people, they have no money and probably no conscience I'm guessing.

 

Let it go and try not to be hurt.

 

The next phase in the path you are on is what's called "looping anger". It shouldn't be called that, as it doesn't always result in anger. I think it should be called "looping hurt". A feeling of injustice about what has happened to you and with no way to resolve it. it kind of becomes engraved in the mind like those locked grooves on vinyl LP's. People in this state become compelled to tell "the story" over and over again. They can't help it. Even worse they develop an amazing ability to turn any subject around to "the story". They are compelled to endlessly repeat it as they can't get it out of their heads. At it's worst they find themselves telling the "story" even tho they don't want to! They will be like "why am I tellling the story again? I don't even want to talk about this!"

 

This is the start of the downward spiral.

 

love

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

I mean, I don't know what it is with me these days...I seem to be attracting a@@holes in droves. I got bitched out this morning by another producer who'd wanted to bring me onto a $100/day job, but it ran right into a job that paid more...so with two days' notice, three if you count the checkout, I told him-apologizing for short notice- that I would be taking this other job. What the f*ck does he think he's gonna get for $100 a day anyway? He goes into this whole thing about being in a panic and not being able to find someone to replace me and I wanted to be like, "You're f*ckin a right you won't find anybody, look at what you're offering!" CLUELESS! Why do *I* do work like this? Because thanks to this 35mm job not paying me and thanks to plain old bad luck, I have to take whatever I can get now.

 

Excellent! Thats a great first start! You need to look after you first!

Try and be sympathetic to said producer, he probably is short of the cash he needs to stage the production. However this is not your problem. I hope you explained the awful situation you are in from not being paid on the last job and that you have to take the higher paying job. It's a matter of survival. Be nice and polite to these people but look after you first.

 

You may genuinely be attracting butts too, maybe by being too nice or somethings. Not sure entirely what attracts them maybe you don't seem confident or something, no idea how the attracting butts bit works, I just know that when you change your outlook this also changes!

 

Sounds like you may already be on an upward trajectory to higher pay! :)

 

I'm not even looking for anyone to tell me to "hang in there" at this point, or to offer me some sort of consolation that things will pick up or get better. I have all the answers I need for myself...I've been standing by watching all my CSC buddies get

 

Yeah I've kind of been setting a bit of a harsh tone in this thread (well by my standards anyway) because this is a fantastic opportunity for you to confront some basic stuff you need to know. I don't want you to hang in there, I want you to confront the issues and to learn. Learning from this can really help you and help you to go better places. Most importantly it can save you from something REALLY bad happening down the line.

 

better work than me for 3 years. Maybe all I am at the end of the day is a cheap indie 1st AC...but it doesn't mean I'm a SUCKER. If situations like these are a test of one's ability to survive in this business, then I guess I have failed. Oh well. I don't have the luxury of a "normal job", a trust fund, parents who give me money, family in the business, or anything like that...this is my job and I do it so I can make money...as much as it beats working in an office, that's the bottom line. I don't know why it's such an issue to these people that I think this way. It's called "survival" and I was under the impression that we all have to do it.

 

EXACTLY!

 

Whats more this isn't really selfish, but if it helps you to think of it as being selfish, then please go for it.

Your survival is important not just to you but to other people too. It's actually part of the theme in "it's a wonderful life" but its a bit buried in all the other nonsense.

 

love

 

Freya

[Annie Wengenroth]

Freya,

In an ideal world, you would be right...and I can say that on an emotional level I am far more willing to walk away from this situation still with my head up. But financially, well, until things get better for me again, I can't let it go...not yet. As far as my stuff goes, uh, yeah, I kiiinda need that. I was a total idiot to leave it on the job and I realize that now.

 

I don't even know if the true nature of this job is coming across with what I've been writing about it...I am one of four people who have been completely f*cked by this production. And this is the lowest of the low-budget. We're not talking about some 20-something year old trust fund kids throwing around some short ends in an SR and trying to shoot in the Village without permits. I don't know if I really spelled this out enough...we're talking about Italians from the Bronx with Mafia connections. Ordinary little silly rules and things like small claims court will not get through to these guys. I just got off the phone with one of the grips from before they cut the crew way down, and he's got some interesting dirt on the history of this production...namely that we are not alone and that this has been going on in various denominations with 3 other crews, for 3 years. They had run out of money previously and then picked up again. And again. And again...

 

We are planning to hit them where it hurts and fight dirty. Now that I've fully realized what these guys have done to a few of my good friends in the film industry, I can no longer play nice.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

 

and or:

 

(better of the 2)

 

to the mattresses Annie!

[Annie Wengenroth]

...No, seriously...

[Brad Grimmett]

I know an old-time gaffer who I'm told once showed up at a producer's office, grabbed a computer monitor off of the secretary's desk and walked out, saying "when I get my check, you'll get your monitor back!" And apparently it worked...

I know this is a tempting idea, but it is theft, and you have a good chance of landing yourself in jail. On the feature I mentioned above, people were grabbing all kinds of things off the truck. The 2nd AC took a Primo zoom and some of the shot footage off the truck. The police were at his hotel room less than an hour after he left set, and he of course had to return the stuff or go to jail.

I know it sucks to get cheated and lied to, but try not to make it worse on yourself.

[K Borowski]

The 2nd AC took a Primo zoom and some of the shot footage off the truck. The police were at his hotel room less than an hour after he left set, and he of course had to return the stuff or go to jail.

I know it sucks to get cheated and lied to, but try not to make it worse on yourself.

 

Well, in the case of the zoom, if it were rented, that would be theft, but if you were taking in-the-can footage from production, it isn't so clear-cut.

 

Not that I am defending theft now, but if you need to take a piece of property to secure payment, it is really none of the police's business.

 

Tell them what has happened, that you have property, and that it is being held in order to secure$X,000 worth of payments for XX hours worth of work.

[Paul Bruening]

Well, in the case of the zoom, if it were rented, that would be theft, but if you were taking in-the-can footage from production, it isn't so clear-cut.

 

Not that I am defending theft now, but if you need to take a piece of property to secure payment, it is really none of the police's business.

 

Tell them what has happened, that you have property, and that it is being held in order to secure$X,000 worth of payments for XX hours worth of work.

 

You can only repossess a thing that you have a lean on. You can't repossess a service that you provided. Nor can you hold someone else's possession hostage.

 

They've got this new thing out now. I think they call it "law".

 

ed:

 

Lien, not lean. Sorry.

[Jon Rosenbloom]

You know ... you're in 600, it's kind of busy now, all sorts of jobs are starting in NY. If you stick w/ your career and are halfway decent (what ever that means), you'll come to a point where you look back and just chalk it up to experience. It's one 13 hour day's pay on a majors job.

[David Rakoczy]

Why would you go onto a Set and work without a Deal Memo? Without one, you are only setting yourself up to be taken advantage of. Create a simple deal memo for yourself spelling everything out and have the producer sign it prior to you commencing work.

 

Any of the childish, retaliatory actions suggested in this thread will only lead to jail time. Just because someone owes you money does not give you the right to steal their (computer screen) for example. That would be theft and you should be arrested. Placing a lien on someone's belongings because they owe you money is something different but you would need some sort of contract (deal memo) to initiate that.

 

Folks.. we are all business(men)... operating a business (ourselves)... the sooner you start acting like that the better.....

[Brian Dzyak]

A vast amount of the work I do is without a deal memo. Granted, they are just quickie day shoots, but there is a level of trust that should exist. Somebody calls for us to go to work, we say yes and agree on a number, we do the work and they pay us. Simple, huh?

 

Well, early in US history they learned that Corporations will abuse and cheat whenever they can get away with it which is why the concept of unions came about. But as we all know, the Reaganites (Milton Friedmanists) have been actively eroding unions and regulations and worker rights for thirty + years. There should be a level of trust and respect and in a lot of cases there is... but it's always those few who just don't care about others and they ruin it for everyone.

 

I did a longer term ( a few days job) last year and just went as usual after a couple conversations over the phone. The schedule went badly as their own logistics drove us into massive OT. When my invoice was questioned, the Production Manager outright lied about sending me a deal memo that supposedly explained that it was a flat. WHAT!? I exclaimed? The Producer, her and everyone else involved thought that I was in the wrong claiming that I "refused" to sign a deal memo. I couldn't refuse to sign it if I never was offered one. I made the mistake of trusting that they were adults and knew the standard "unspoken" rules for production. They lied over and over and over in an attempt to screw me and others out of money. Money corrupts. I won't work for them again and they really don't deserve to have my skills either. That's the attitude to take. Know your own value and never compromise on what you're worth. They need us more than we need them.

[K Borowski]

Well, early in US history they learned that Corporations will abuse and cheat whenever they can get away with it which is why the concept of unions came about. But as we all know, the Reaganites (Milton Friedmanists) have been actively eroding unions and regulations and worker rights for thirty + years. There should be a level of trust and respect and in a lot of cases there is... but it's always those few who just don't care about others and they ruin it for everyone.

 

Brian: you need to quit stating that one of our political parties is full of "bad guys" and the other is all "good guys" if you want to be taken seriously, here or anywhere else.

 

I simply leave the room or hang up the phone when my father, who takes an opposite, yet equally stupid, stance as you, starts talking politics.

 

 

If you want to see good versus evil battles, watch a Western or Star Wars or something. Those sorts of confrontations seldom, if ever, exist in the real world.