100D reversal super 8 to come out this spring?

[S8 Booster]

I thought Kodak shut down S8 Sound Film not for the profits but for environmental issues?  :unsure:

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sure but that was really only a costs problem. No doubt they could have come up with an alternative or they could have used Wittner in Germany for striping the films since the K40 S8 carts are now only produced in France. Wittner has pre-striped 60m K40 spools up to now.

 

As you know Fuji is still poststriping their Fujichrome as an option when the film is processed. Kodak could have bought the striping material - which I guess is a tape based one (& necessary machinery if need be) - from them.

 

 

Others: Why can I not edit my posts anymore? Option not avail.

 

Software update?

 

Oh, I just noticed - it is back :) but not on the older posts :(

 

R

Edited January 1, 2005 by S8 Booster

[David Mullen ASC]

You have ten minutes to edit something you just posted.

[Alessandro Machi]

But Ektachrome 100D is a significantly better film stock than 7240!  Finally you have something in the same quality league as K40 in color reversal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Awesome!!!

 

Which is more "light efficient" of the two scenarios presented below?

 

Shooting indoor balanced K-40 (ASA-40) with regular tungsten lights, or shooting Ektachrome 100 (ASA 100) with the same lights but putting blue gel on those lights?

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

This Ektachrome 100 ASA daylight balanced stock could prove to be a real find for locations that have permanent lighting grids set up. If one can have the lights already set up via an overhead lighting grid and thus eliminate changing lighting set-ups the Ektachrome could prove to be a real neat film stock to shoot interiors with, even in Super-8!

[John Pytlak RIP]

Using a daylight-balance color reversal film with tunsten light will require significant blue filtration. For example, an 80A filter has a filter factor of 2 stops:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/...onversion.shtml

 

Here is the complete Kodak Cinematographers Field Guide:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/h2/

[Alessandro Machi]

So Ektachrome 100D is actually less sensitive than Kodachrome 40Tungsten.

 

But does an actual light lose 2 f-stops when it is gelled blue?

 

Looks like the Ektachrome 100D will be an excellent fit for HMI lighting, for those who can afford it!

[David Mullen ASC]

So Ektachrome 100D is actually less sensitive than Kodachrome 40Tungsten. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, it's 100 ASA and K40 is 40 ASA, so how do you get it being less sensitive? It's just that it's daylight-balanced the other is tungsten-balanced. In daylight with the 85 filter, K40 is EFFECTIVELY a 25 ASA film and Ektachrome is still 100 ASA, but K40's base sensitivity is still 40 ASA; you're only rating it at 25 ASA because of the light loss of the filter, not because of a drop in sensitivity.

[Alessandro Machi]

No, it's 100 ASA and K40 is 40 ASA, so how do you get it being less sensitive? It's just that it's daylight-balanced the other is tungsten-balanced.  In daylight with the 85 filter, K40 is EFFECTIVELY a 25 ASA film and Ektachrome is still 100 ASA, but K40's base sensitivity is still 40 ASA; you're only rating it at 25 ASA because of the light loss of the filter, not because of a drop in sensitivity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

My question was as repeat from a couple of posts earlier but I guess I skimmed on the details.

 

Kodachrome 40 indoors is rated at 40ASA.

 

Ektachrome 100 Daylight with a blue filter on the lens (and a loss of 2 f-stops) would be effectively ASA 25!

 

So instead of putting a blue filter in front of the camera lens would one lose less sensitivity by gelling the tungsten lights blue?

 

Scenario A....Tungsten lights unfiltered, with Kodachrome 40.

 

Scenario B....The same Tungsten lights with a blue gel, using Ektachrome 100D.

 

Are those two scenarios a toss up in terms of what F-stop would be needed for each film stock when the same lights are available? What would the difference in f-stops be between the two methods, aka, which scenario would allow for a "smaller" f-stop setting to be used.(as in f2.8 is "smaller" than f 2.0.)

[S8 Booster]

I think Alex refers to the fact that 100D has an exposure index of ISO 25 when it is shot in tungsten light using an on cam 80A filter and wonders if it still will have an EI of ISO25 if the "T" light sources are blue gelled.

 

Possibly the light drop over the gels equals the light drop over the cam´s 80A filter?

 

For shooting 100D in 3000 - 3400K / tungsten light sources using an on cam 80A filter the 100D is less sensitive than K40 - EI25 vs K40´s EI40 - actually equals K40´s daylight performance of ISO25 using the 85 filter.

 

For "T" conditions the 100D is less sensitive than the K40.

 

R

 

(oops - posted this simoultanesly with Alex)

Edited January 4, 2005 by S8 Booster

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, you'd have 2/3's of a stop more exposure with K40 than blue filtered or gelled 100D, although if you wanted a warm nighttime interior, you could get away with only partially correcting 100D.

 

I just had a problem with the way this was stated:

 

"So Ektachrome 100D is actually less sensitive than Kodachrome 40Tungsten."

 

Obviously a sentence like that, by itself, is incorrect. We use the word "sensitivity" rather loosely -- obviously no matter how much filtration we put in front of the lens, the sensitivity of the emulsion is the same. We only conveniently change the ASA rating as a way of not having to remember to open up the f-stop to compensate for the light loss from the filter -- but that doesn't mean the sensitivity of the stock changed. But from a practical angle, we say that it has a "lower ASA" when we cut the exposure with filters.

 

Now if he had said:

 

"So Ektachrome 100D filtered to 3200K balance gives you a practical 25 ASA speed, which is lower than K40T"

 

I wouldn't have corrected him.

[Alessandro Machi]

My question has to do with the actual light source to try and determine which of the two reversal filmstocks would be more "light efficient" if one only had tungsten lights to work with.

 

Is it fair to say that the K-40, because it is tungsten balanced ASA-40, will actually give a higher F-stop reading than the Ektachrome 100D because the lights do not have to be gelled blue?

 

Even if that is so the possibility of rounding up some HMI's and gaining 2 f-stops with the Ektachrome 100D as compared to the Kodachrome 40 is quite tempting.

 

Is it also possible that not blue gelling at all might even be acceptable since Ektachrome tends be more blue in general?

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Is it also possible that not blue gelling at all might even be acceptable since Ektachrome tends be more blue in general?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ektachrome isn't supposed to be more blue than Kodachrome, unless you're a victim of bad processing. Maybe it can be cooler in some ways, I haven't tested this but I did get that impression when I saw a few still film tests (E-6 vs K-14 films).

 

I never checked this, because I usually don't like to use daylight stock with CTB's, but I do believe CTB's eat SLIGHTLY less light than the over the lens correction (by something like 1/3rd of a stop). May have to do with the dye they use for the filter versus the gel. It's really not that hard to test this out.

 

I guess if Super 8 users really need the speed they can let it go warm and then put a correction filter over the projecter lens when necessary :)

 

- G.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

It seems Kodak still makes this E-6 film, which would probably be the smoothest candidate for Super 8:

 

KODAK EKTACHROME 160T Professional Film (EPT)

 

KODAK EKTACHROME 160T Professional Film is a medium-speed color transparency film featuring fine grain and high sharpness.

 

Color Balance: Tungsten

Primary Features:

160 speed

Tungsten balance

Primary Applications:

Used in variable tungsten light conditions

Fashion

Editorial

Corporate/Industrial

Process: Process E-6, by user or independent processing lab

Available in 135 and 120.

 

Then there's also this tungsten balanced film:

 

KODAK EKTACHROME 320T Professional Film (EPJ)

 

Use when the action level is high and the tungsten light level is low, or to meet difficult depth-of-field demands in indoor situations. Film images are sharp.

 

Color Balance: Tungsten

Primary Features:

320 speed

Tungsten balance

Primary Applications:

Used in low-light tungsten conditions

TV and motion picture studios

Stage performances

Sports

Medical

News events

Process: Process E-6, by user or independent processing lab

Available in 135 roll sizes

It says, btw, "TV and motion picture studios", I wonder what they mean by that - production stills photographers, or the dudes that buy 100' loads and shoot them in their Eyemos for a funny look? :)

 

Then finally, for "granular artistic applications" as Kodak calls it, we have:

 

KODAK EKTACHROME P1600 Professional Film (EPH)

 

Use this color transparency film for low-light-level photography, for action or sports photography, or in situations that call for high shutter speeds combined with small lens openings for good depth of field.

 

Film speed: EI P1600 (P=push process)

Color Balance: Daylight or electronic flash (color balance)

Primary Features:

Very high speed film (EI 1600)

Requires 2-stop push processing

Primary Applications:

Used in very low-light, fast action, or with long telephoto lenses

Granular artistic applications

Process: Process E-6P, by user or independent processing lab

Available in 135-36 size

Edited January 4, 2005 by GeorgeSelinsky

[Matt Pacini]

Ektachrome isn't supposed to be more blue than Kodachrome...

 

- G.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe it's not supposed to be, but it is!

 

Also, the ektachrome 160 has been discontinued for quite a few years now (and I don't miss it one bit! )

 

If they could make something with grain as fine as Kodachrome, in a neg stock, it would be super.

It would probably have to be something like ASA-15 though...

 

 

Matt Pacini

[Alessandro Machi]

With the agenda of hoping that the Ektachrome 100 would be fine grained enough to be both an excellent indoor alternative to Kodachrome 40 AND be 2 f-stops more light efficient...

 

Of the following five lighting methods for using the new Ektachrome 100D indoors, which is the best choice?

 

#1 HMI lighting.

 

#2 Dichroic filters on regular tungsten lights.

 

#3 Blue Gelling tungsten lights.

 

#4 Putting an 80A filter on the camera lens.

 

#5 Don't do anything to the tungsten lights and plan on pulling some orange out and adding some blue in when telecining the footage.

 

#5A Don't do anything to the tungsten lights AND do some type of "laboratory fix" when the film is being processed and then do final tinkering if necessary when telecining.

 

I don't like option 4 because it makes the image dimmer through the viewfinder.

 

Any experiences on the other four options would be welcomed. Number 5 could be the ultimate solution and perhaps is possible since Ektachrome does seem to have a reputation for being more of a "blue" stock to begin with.

 

Maybe 5A could work as well as long as the lab procedure does not add somehow add additional grain.

[John Pytlak RIP]

HMI lighting or daylight are the best options. When you filter a tungsten source, you are losing about two stops of light.

 

You have limited ability to correct a big color shift on a reversal film during printing or transfer, without seeing some contrast mismatch and color shifts.

[S8 Booster]

Really liked that Ektachrome suggestion and Ektachromes 160T & 320T seem available if it is the same film that you described:

 

KODAK EKTACHROME 160T Professional Film (EPT)

 

The 160T has a technical grain of approx the same as the VNF 7240 which is good.

Technical Publication

 

KODAK EKTACHROME 160T Professional Film (EPT)

 

KODAK EKTACHROME 160T Professional Film is a medium-speed color transparency film featuring fine grain and high sharpness.

 

Color Balance: Tungsten

Primary Features: 

160 speed

Tungsten balance

 

Primary Applications: 

Used in variable tungsten light conditions

Fashion

Editorial

Corporate/Industrial

Process: Process E-6, by user or independent processing lab

Available in 135 and 120.

 

 

KODAK EKTACHROME 320T Professional Film (EPJ)

 

Technical Publication

 

KODAK EKTACHROME 320T Professional Film (EPJ)

 

KODAK EKTACHROME 320T Professional Film (EPJ)

 

Use when the action level is high and the tungsten light level is low, or to meet difficult depth-of-field demands in indoor situations. Film images are sharp.

 

Color Balance: Tungsten

Primary Features:     

320 speed

Tungsten balance

Primary Applications: 

Used in low-light tungsten conditions

TV and motion picture studios

Stage performances

Sports

Medical

News events

Process: Process E-6, by user or independent processing lab

Available in 135 roll sizes

 

R

Edited January 4, 2005 by S8 Booster

[Alessandro Machi]

HMI lighting or daylight are the best options.  When you filter a tungsten source, you are losing about two stops of light.

 

You have limited ability to correct a big color shift on a reversal film during printing or transfer, without seeing some contrast mismatch and color shifts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

If this Ektachrome 100D becomes available I would gladly do some tests and even some pre-tests before it is released. Probably Yale Labs could do the processing. I'd be willing to do all the tests described in my previous post.

[Anthony Schilling]

100D is 25 ASA when filtered for tungston. however the extra speed in daylight will be very useful for me where i live. I've shot 100 ft of 100D in 16mm last week, still have 300ft to shoot and process before i get a first hand look at it.

 

The ektachrome 160T E6 would be an interesting S-8 reversal.

[Alessandro Machi]

100D is 25 ASA when filtered for tungston. however the extra speed in daylight will be very useful for me where i live. I've shot 100 ft of 100D in 16mm last week, still have 300ft to shoot and process before i get a first hand look at it.

 

The ektachrome 160T E6 would be an interesting S-8 reversal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you can "spare a square" and shoot a small wedge with tungsten lighting and no blue filter (just a couple seconds, perferably with a face in the shot) it would be interesting to see if it is has any blue in it.

[Alessandro Machi]

Can I buy Ektachrome 100D as a 35mm slide film?

[Matt Pacini]

That link above for Ektachrome 160 is for still camera film.

 

It was discontinued a long time ago for Super 8.

Here's the link to available Super 8 film:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/super8/f....4.10.4.4&lc=en

 

 

 

Matt Pacini

[Alessandro Machi]

HMI lighting or daylight are the best options.  When you filter a tungsten source, you are losing about two stops of light.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The dichroic I was using on a 1K light didn't seem to me like it was losing two-stops of light. Is it possible that dichroics on a light lose less than conventional CTblue gels?

 

Matt, which link are you talking about for 35mm still film availability?

[Daniel Henriquez Ilic]

Hello,

 

A new company dedicated to s8, 16 and 35mm, in North Hollywood, will be offering E6 process for super8, once they have completed the set-up of their laboratory.

 

http://www.spectrafilmandvideo.com/Lab.html

 

Regards,

Daniel Henriquez Ilic

[John Pytlak RIP]

Hello,

 

A new company dedicated to s8, 16 and 35mm, in North Hollywood, will be offering E6 process for super8, once they have completed the set-up of their laboratory.

 

http://www.spectrafilmandvideo.com/Lab.html

 

Regards,

Daniel Henriquez Ilic

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kodak welcomes labs offering E-6 processing for motion picture films:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en...PCN031304_Q.pdf

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products...1.4.4.6.4&lc=en

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products...4.6.4.6.4&lc=en

 

It makes it more likely that additional films and formats will be available for the E-6 process. B)

[Marty Hamrick]

But Ektachrome 100D is a significantly better film stock than 7240!  Finally you have something in the same quality league as K40 in color reversal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Are there any current projects being done on this stock?I would love to see some clips.I thought Buffalo 66 had a unique look shot on 5239 Ektachrome.I'll miss the high speed 7250 and 7251.There are some music video projects I've come across where that look would work well.