Cheapest place in U.K for renting equipment

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

I'm trying to find somewhere cheap in the U.K (around london) for equipment rental. I've looked at Optex, but their prices are just out of this world. For HDW-750, £450 a day. I think the HDW-900 runs at £600/650 (roughly $1000) per day.

 

Does anyone know of cheaper places to rent HD equipment from?

 

Also cheap places to get it transfered onto computer? Or just rental of some kind of a VTR? The chances are I'll do most of the transferring myself, I'll make a miniDV copy myself. (Cos I'm cheap, and I don't care how long it takes for my computer to process it, I have a lot more time than £££)

 

Only other thing was, is there anyway of getting government grants for this kind of thing? If I explain to them that I'm a student and that this project I'm doing will boost my qualifications. (Or some BS like that)

 

Tnx.

Dan.

Edited April 5, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Rich Steel]

VFG are constantly discounting gear. You could also try Axis Film at Shepperton Studios and there's also Hammerhead facilities.

[Rolfe Klement]

VFG are gone as of 2 weeks - partly for that reason.

 

No specific answer from me but people will always do deals. I just got a VFX quote down from £350/hr to a set fee at about at max 30% of hourly rate.

 

But be careful cause if the deal is too good and too many people hear about it then the hire companies suffer and go bankrupt (VFG - last month)

 

It is also about building relationships - if you always go to the same guys they will help you out - in lieu try and force the UPM into using your hire company in future when projects with money come along

 

If if is a self financed project there is a lot more flexibilty - the hire compaines need to be on guard against producers trying to squeeze more profit

 

My advice is a trip to see them and negotiate and look hungry :)

 

thanks

 

Rolfe

Edited April 5, 2005 by Rolfe Klement

[Phil Rhodes]

> is there anyway of getting government grants for this kind of thing

 

Hah!

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Thanks for the references guys, gonna give that axis at shepperton a try.

 

> is there anyway of getting government grants for this kind of thing

 

Hah!

What do you mean by that?

[Stuart Brereton]

Rental firms outside of London will generally be cheaper than those inside. However, HD equipment is not cheap wherever you go.

Also, be aware that rental firms will probably want a large deposit, or payment up-front with ID unless they know you. They will also want proof of adequate insurance, or will expect you to pay an additional 15 - 20% of the hire as a premium on their insurance.

 

Government grants are available to Filmmakers, in the form of Arts Council schemes and funding. However, they are not usually handed out freely, but only to those projects which meet quite stringent (and esoteric) criteria. Your local Arts Council or Film Commission will be able to tell you more.

 

Shooting on HD (that is, with a HDW900 or similar) is something that even well funded productions can find themselves unable to afford. Unless you have considerable funds in place, i'd advise you to look at cheaper options.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> owever, they are not usually handed out freely, but only to those projects which meet

> quite stringent (and esoteric) criteria.

 

Basically, you have to be either disabled or a member of an ethnic minority making an "issue" film, and usually it has to be a feature, the less chance of commercial success the better. There is effectively no government funding for shorts in this country.

 

Phil

[Keith Mottram]

There are schemes specifically for young people and some funding is available, although it is seasonal and grants are also few and far between. Funding is also now regional. If you are based in London look at www.filmlondon.org.uk.

 

Keith

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

The problem with the young people's grant is that they force you to go and do several days (yes, several whole days!) of "DV training", thus more or less guaranteeing that the output is trash.

 

Phil

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

 

The problem with the young people's grant is that they force you to go and do several days (yes, several whole days!) of "DV training", thus more or less guaranteeing that the output is trash.

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Phil,

 

Mabe they should go on several days 16mm training.!

 

Stephen Williams

Lighting Cameraman

 

www.stephenw.com

[Max Jacoby]

There is effectively no government funding for shorts in this country.

 

Yep, that's why I'm making my film in Luxmebourg.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

You can get a grant in Luxembourg? You have dual nationality or something?

 

Phil

[Rachel Oliver]

Hi;

 

Daniel, move to Wandsworth! A good friend of mine got a 5K film grant from Wandsworth council to make a Doc about the RCA. But in reality you are living in one of the least film friendly places on earth, in my experience anyway. Remember, think laterally!

 

Olly

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

After a bit of crying and stomping my feet on the ground Optex have offered me 10%. (Which is quite a bit considering the total amount, although I don't think they could give a damn about my situation, that's just what they offer to everyone)

 

I'm looking to put a maximum of £1500 into this project.

 

So far, the amounts tally as this:

 

 

Wide Lens Canon HJ9 X 5.5 (5.5-50MM) £195.00 Per Day

Standard Lens Canon HJ 21X7.8 (7.8-164MM) £225.00 Per Day

Sony HDW 750P Camera £450.00 Per Day

Ronford Fluid 7 head £50.00 Per Day

Ronford Tall Legs £18.00 Per Day

Ronford Short Legs £18.00 Per Day

Cinekinetic Microjib that will give a reach of 1.37M (I'm reconsidering) £40.00 Per day

3X filters : £75

 

Total: £1071

Total + VAT: £1258.42

 

Minus 10% : £1132.58

 

 

Only thing is the filters are 4X4 and I think I need a mattebox. That could cost quite a bit aswell.

 

There?s a chance I could save up and shoot it in the summer (around august), but I really do feel uncomfortable about blowing about £1500 on a short. And considering I'm a student my income isn't enough to feed a family of mice, so whatever money I do get, it's from a lot of work. From working in the camera shop I get about £25.50 a day, so I would need to work 60 days, without spending anything (which is almost impossible for me), whilst trying to hold down college education (I've already had to drop 2 of 4 subjects)

 

I really want to do this, but it's just the money. Once I have shot this I will use it as my reel.

 

I think I WILL have to look into government grants here. I am also looking at ways I can distribute the short. A friend of mine has an uncle who prints adverts (posters, business cards e.t.c.) I'm looking to pay him for loads of posters and stuff and then paste London with them. Thing is, it's not the type of film that could be sold on DVD that easily, I mean it doesn't really have much of a story line, it mainly just looks good. Perhaps a showing on a small digital channel or something..

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Daniel, move to Wandsworth! A good friend of mine got a 5K film grant from Wandsworth council to make a Doc about the RCA. But in reality you are living in one of the least film friendly places on earth, in my experience anyway. Remember, think laterally!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kents bad? Yeh, probably is, lot's of tight-assed snobs. Although, I'll still give them a go. Trouble is I'd need to be a part of that town to recieve a grant from that particular council wouldn't I? I mean, if your friend got that grant from them, I'd sure as hell give them a go, but if they will only offer grants to people living in their town then I won't be up to much.

 

At the moment I still need to look into these government grants, I didn't even know they offered them to film makers until not that long ago.

Edited April 6, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

You are insane.

 

It will cost you much more than that again to post what you shoot - an HDW-F500 deck costs about £400/day to rent, and then you need access to a computer system with HD-SDI inputs and competent software to work with it.

 

What's the point? What are you trying to prove here? It's a short; you can't sell it. Even if you could, if you're distributing it on DVD, why bother shooting HD? Almost no film festivals project HD, there is no HD broadcast, even if it was good enough to exhibit anywhere - which as your first effort, it most certainly won't be.

 

Spend much less money and shoot it on a DSR-500 or something like that, and you'll still have cash enough left over to actually make a decent project out of it. Don't be like the people who pour every cent they can scrape together into shooting film and end up with a piece of crap that happens to have very high image quality.

 

Phil

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

You are insane.

Cheers!

It will cost you much more than that again to post what you shoot - an HDW-F500 deck costs about £400/day to rent, and then you need access to a computer system with HD-SDI inputs and competent software to work with it.

 

What's the point? What are you trying to prove here? It's a short; you can't sell it. Even if you could, if you're distributing it on DVD, why bother shooting HD? Almost no film festivals project HD, there is no HD broadcast, even if it was good enough to exhibit anywhere - which as your first effort, it most certainly won't be.

 

Spend much less money and shoot it on a DSR-500 or something like that, and you'll still have cash enough left over to actually make a decent project out of it. Don't be like the people who pour every cent they can scrape together into shooting film and end up with a piece of crap that happens to have very high image quality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well it's mainly the quality of the picture I want, not the resolution. I saw a film a director made shot with the HDW750, it was burnt to DVD so the resolution was kicked right down, but it just looked so nice, it looked like film, not the progressive mode, I mean the colours e.t.c. Like the difference between using the XL2 and the SDX900, the resolution is similar from what I believe, but just look at the picture quality. 50mbs colour rendition and everything.

 

If I could use the SDX-900, and get it cheaper than the HDW750, then I probably would. But from looking I can't find ONE single company that rents them out.

 

I'm not too bothered about resolution (obviously I want 625 lines minimum), but it's mainly just creating a good looking film, through colour e.t.c.

 

The main point is to use it for my reel. That's why I want such good looking footage.

 

I know what you are saying, this is my first attempt at something big, so yeh it could come out as a load of cack, although I have put a lot of planning into this, and have got a lot more planning to go yet. Right now I'm drawing up storyboards (STILL drawing up storyboards) and if it goes the way it looks on the paper it's going to be great, win awards e.t.c. e.t.c. I have got it all planned in my head atleast how the shots will look.

 

There will be plenty of impressive shots, expensive looking shots. For instance, when an actor is walking down the street, blue filter, high contrast, the camera is in front of him moving backwards with him. Generally people would use a dolly and track, I on the other hand have got some wheel chair motors, built a platform on top with a little remote control to move with, works great! Not much noise or anything, although when it comes to it I will probably cover certain parts with covers e.t.c. just to make sure.

 

That budget I quoted doesn't really include post, I mean, literally all I am going to do is get hold of a VTR and do the editing either at home or possibly at my college depending on how good their computers are. To start with, yes, I understand it will take ages just to load up, but I will make an offline and online copy and edit it that way. But, as I said, I have a lot more time than money.

Edited April 6, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

I would use something like the DSR-500 but from what I believe it doesn't do progressive scan. And theres no way I'm having interlaced crap in my reel, looks like.. well I won't mention it.

[Rolfe Klement]

Don't get caught up in technology

 

Another option is to shoot a trailer - It is almost as much work as a feature :) - but if pre-vis is good to excellent then you can get about a 5 to 1 ratio - then you may as well shoot 35mm or S16

 

One guy I know "might" get signed to CAA based on his trailer which cost £2k. I am occasionally able to shoot at £70/min on personal 35mm projects but I am cutting every corner and pulling huge favours to make that happen - and I own my own camera equipment.

 

Depending on which segment of this industry you are aiming at - money can be well spent doing subtle things - shooting DV but spending £1000 on lights, set design and make up is better than using a DALSA camera to shoot bad lighting - if you are aiming at directing understanding script, performance and capturing performance, story is what is key - so spend money on talent and casting directors or reading David Mamet :)

 

Making sure you burn your reel at super high res on sorenson pro 3 (or h264 when QT7 comes out) on dual layer DVD's - make everything look better - even 35mm can look terrible in real player - if compressed badly - our whole business is about presentation

 

I just watched Nick Nolte "extras" interview about his mother's death on the Northfolk DVD - shot on DV? - him on a chair and it was fantastically engaging (BTW- David Mullen had superb superb cinematography in Northfolk - congratualtions!)

 

The best advice I ever got about cinematography was shoot anything, anywhere on any format, day, night, 3am 9pm, with any camera, on stills if need be, push, pull, cross process, hang out at Fotokem or Soho images at 2am on a Tues - do anything to get experience, practice framing with directors viewfinders, or card cutouts, walk around with fixed focus lens on an SLR - to learn about the lenses, look at fashion magazines - check out how they light , go to lighting companies and ask to play with their lights - practice flagging, diffusion, smear vaseline in horizontal streaks across your lens, then vertical, then circular, follow lowboy car trailer shots around LA (until they tell you not to!) Look, listen and learn

 

whoa - too much coffee B)

 

thanks

 

Rolfe

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Thanks for the advice Rolfe, yeh I know a few people myself who want to make big features, but what they do is just build a trailer for them, and then use that to convince investors e.t.c.

 

Well, it's an option.

 

I might end up shooting with the XL2, with mini35. I mean, I feel dissapointed in a way, I really would love to shoot HD, but I'm thinking it's out of my reach right now. XL2, mini35, and a few descent lenses on the other hand is certainly within my reach.

 

It would be a lot cheaper that way, although.. well..... we'd all love to shoot HD.

 

:unsure: :( <---- Me

 

 

Ok. Well, I'll have to get over it. I'm sure you can create good looking shots with the XL2, especially with the mini35. Anyway, about the XL2.

 

With the mini35 adapater, I know that it reduces the depth of field to 35mm equiv, but does it also mean that I can use standard 35mm lenses and get the angle and everything? Basically I want a few wide-angle shots (20mm in 35mm equiv), but I'm not sure how easy it is to get those kind of lenses with the XL2. (CCD size might be too small) Perhaps with the mini35 you can use standard 35mm lenses, so getting wide-angle shots won't be a problem?

 

 

> BTW I know this has nothing to do with the discussion in hand but I got some clips from that drama thing I was doing: Clip

 

Being that it was only a drama thing and we didn't have much equipment, it was only basic. But, it works for it's criteria I think. <

Edited April 6, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> Well it's mainly the quality of the picture I want, not the resolution.

 

...in which case an SDX-900 will be similar.

 

> I saw a film a director made shot with the HDW750, it was burnt to DVD so the

> resolution was kicked right down, but it just looked so nice

 

Gah! It looked nice because it was composed, lit and designed carefully, which is exactly what I'm talking about. Do the same on an SDX-900 or a DVX-100 and it will still look nice.

 

> it looked like film

 

No, I imagine it looked like well-lit video.

 

> If I could use the SDX-900, and get it cheaper than the HDW750, then I probably

> would.

 

You can. Do so. In fact, stuff it, and get a DVX-100, you can learn perfectly well on that.

 

> I'm not too bothered about resolution (obviously I want 625 lines minimum), but

> it's mainly just creating a good looking film, through colour e.t.c.

 

So why the hell are you talking about HD? What's the point? In point of fact, because Sony like to keep a brand continuity going through their range, a DVW-790 digital betacam has extremely similar colour rendering to an HWD-F750.

 

> I know what you are saying, this is my first attempt at something big, so yeh it

> could come out as a load of cack,

 

Oh, it will. And I mean no side by that, it's just grimly inevitable. You will kick yourself for spending all that cash on it.

 

> That budget I quoted doesn't really include post,

 

No kidding.

 

> I mean, literally all I am going to do is get hold of a VTR

 

And a suitable capture card, hard disk arrays, software.

 

It's not worth it.

 

Phil

[Stephen Williams]

After a bit of crying and stomping my feet on the ground Optex have offered me 10%. (Which is quite a bit considering the total amount, although I don't think they could give a damn about my situation, that's just what they offer to everyone)

 

I'm looking to put a maximum of £1500 into this project.

 

So far, the amounts tally as this:

Wide Lens Canon HJ9 X 5.5 (5.5-50MM) £195.00 Per Day

Standard Lens Canon HJ 21X7.8 (7.8-164MM) £225.00 Per Day

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Daniel,

 

I would just take 1 Zoom Lens!

 

Stephen Williams DoP

Zurich

 

www.stephenw.com

[Max Jacoby]

You can get a grant in Luxembourg? You have dual nationality or something?

 

Luckily I was never British to begin with... :P

 

The situation in the UK is appalling when it comes to funding short films. It's nothing compared to countries like France or Luxembourg where you get proper budgets to make shorts.

[Max Jacoby]

Only thing is the filters are 4X4 and I think I need a mattebox. That could cost quite a bit aswell.

 

A follow-focus might be useful as well...

[Morgan Peline]

I think it all depends on how good you are at blagging kit - we've managed to get HD kit for much less than the list price. If the a rental house is having a quiet period then they will always consider doing you some stuff for cheaper. If you manage to build up a relationship with a single rental house and always go back, then things get much cheaper in the long run because you are a regular customer.