Brian Drysdale Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I suspect Kubrick's version of the holocaust would've been different, which is all that matters. Better can be subjective. There are many stories from that part of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steven Beverly Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Although Kubrick was great, I couldn't have imagined that his unrealized holocaust film could have been better than Schindler's List. That movie is seriously top 5...at least 10. Truly GREAT movie, I'll give you that, though I think for Speilberg, this wasn't a movie, it was his entire heritage. He was making an artistic version of the darkest moment in his people's history and everything he is as a being went into that film. I remember him in an interview talking about how painful it was to go on set and live that horror. How he wohld be literally dieecting with tears running down his face and the only way he got through it was by calling up Robin Williams who would joke around for awhile with him until he could feel good enough to go back to work. Just listening to him was heartbreaking. I think that movie changed him. He started exploring darker, more reality based themes in his? work after that experience. I don't know what Kubrick's take on the holicaust would have been bur after seeing Paths of Glory, Full Metal Jacket, A Clockwork Orange and The Shining, I can speculate it would have been VERY dark, disturbing and real. I really would have loved to have seen it. Do you know if there's a script available on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 13, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted May 13, 2014 Do you know if there's a script available on it? I had heard that his widow said there were "notes" about it. How organized or coherent they were, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steven Beverly Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I suspect Kubrick's version of the holocaust would've been different, which is all that matters. Better can be subjective. There are many stories from that part of history. Oh, it woild be different, alright and possibly, given the subject matter, could have the potential to have been his greatest work. But alas, we'll never know which is a real shame. Speilberg's Lincoln was a tour de force, I wonder what Kubrick could have done with that subject matter. Sparticus had some similarities os there's a tantalizing clue to what he could have done rechnically but Sparticus wasn't his movie, he just directed it so even that doesn't really tell you what he could have done with a historical epic. It really is ashame he couldn't have hung around longer. I miss his style and genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steven Beverly Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I had heard that his widow said there were "notes" about it. How organized or coherent they were, I have no idea. Humm, I wonder if they're available to view online. I doubt it. He was pretty private about keeping his secrets. I remember the picture of the 2001 space station out in a field somewhere disgarded. Some kids kicked it apart, destroying it. What a loss to cinema history. Some artifacts were saved though, the moonbus model somebody said they had recovered but the space staion was toi big to get in theur car and when they went back for it, it was in a thousand pieces. I don'remember whar else was saved, a pod minature I think, couple of other things. I'll have to look it up if I can find it again. It might have been on Film-tec.com, I'll have to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Have you fellows seen that documentary that talks about his huge stockpile (library) of research matereal for his film projects. Staggering. Don't know where to find it now. Speilburg, to pull one of those names on the list that almost started an argument, is a great contemporary film maker, sure, but Kubrick was a great intellect, and that produced some great films. I don't know if all those people are really on the same "greyscale" of greatness. It becomes like comparing great fruit, trickey. Some of them may be on their own. Fruit of a unique kind. Edited May 13, 2014 by Gregg MacPherson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 You can view it here: http://vimeo.com/78314194 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thanks Brian. I thought it had come up on the forum before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael LaVoie Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) At one point in the video 0:21 I thought the girl was a CGI character. Children often have faces that reflect like a porcelain doll but when you combine that with her adult choreographed dancing and facial expressions and you get a highly awkward result. Just the whole thing felt so dead and artificial. Very digital. Unlike the Chris Walken Fatboy Slim video Edited May 13, 2014 by Michael LaVoie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steven Beverly Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Kickass video! I had forgotten about it. I wonder how much of Walken was actually in the video and how much was his face layered in. even then he was relitively old so I don't imagine they would allow him to do too much. I also saw some sections that looked ever so slightly off somehow and know the face was image mapped much like Jet Lei in The One when he fought himself. It didn't really bother me though because it was so cool like everything else Christopher Walken ever did!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 At one point in the video 0:21 I thought the girl was a CGI character. Children often have faces that reflect like a porcelain doll but when you combine that with her adult choreographed dancing and facial expressions and you get a highly awkward result. Just the whole thing felt so dead and artificial. Very digital. Shame to see such an interesting piece being talked down based on such a superficial reading of it. The mannequin like quality is deliberate. I took it as the conceptor/director riffing on or extending on the look/idea of Pris as mannequin just befor Deckard kills her in in Bladerunner. Could be wrong, just my take on it. If I am wrong, I'm OK, the "dance" contains may mannequin referenced moves, poses, expressions of idea. It highlights the instruction fom the choreographer/director. There were a few moments where I can imagine the instructions. One or two special moments where an unusual. awkward movement is repeated, as if the dir has just told her "again". And seen one after the other like that, they transform, educate, us. "...dead and artificial..." complete rubbish. Very stimulating, alive and committed to the complexities of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael LaVoie Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Kickass video! I had forgotten about it. I wonder how much of Walken was actually in the video and how much was his face layered in. even then he was relitively old so I don't imagine they would allow him to do too much. I also saw some sections that looked ever so slightly off somehow and know the face was image mapped much like Jet Lei in The One when he fought himself. It didn't really bother me though because it was so cool like everything else Christopher Walken ever did!! Chris walken is a fantastic dancer and he did most of it. Shame to see such an interesting piece being talked down based on such a superficial reading of it. The mannequin like quality is deliberate. I took it as the conceptor/director riffing on or extending on the look/idea of Pris as mannequin just befor Deckard kills her in in Bladerunner. Could be wrong, just my take on it. If I am wrong, I'm OK, the "dance" contains may mannequin referenced moves, poses, expressions of idea. It highlights the instruction fom the choreographer/director. There were a few moments where I can imagine the instructions. One or two special moments where an unusual. awkward movement is repeated, as if the dir has just told her "again". And seen one after the other like that, they transform, educate, us. "...dead and artificial..." complete rubbish. Very stimulating, alive and committed to the complexities of life. My criticism of the SIa video was not of the content. Just the image quality. Even with digital you can bake a look into it that's much more rounded and organic and I think in this case it would have been a better move. So that's where I'm coming from. You have excellent points about the merits of the content and I agree. I think we disagree on the aesthetic choices of how it was presented. Edited May 14, 2014 by Michael LaVoie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 "...dead and artificial..." complete rubbish. Very stimulating, alive and committed to the complexities of life. @Michael LaVoie Sorry, I think I'm being too snappy there. The r word hardly cultures freedom of expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Mosness Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 As far as the video goes, I felt like the cinematography wasn't competing with the dancer, nor was it simply passive. Maybe the thinking was to allow us, as viewers, to be active enough to feel we were moving with her from room to room, and thus included, as apposed to a new cut as she exited and entered, etc. Nice balance for me. I liked that the dance was dictating the pace rather that arbitrary cuts that often feel contrived in music videos. It always seems like they're hiding things in the editing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steven Beverly Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Chris walken is a fantastic dancer and he did most of it. My criticism of the SIa video was not of the content. Just the image quality. Even with digital you can bake a look into it that's much more rounded and organic and I think in this case it would have been a better move. So that's where I'm coming from. You have excellent points about the merits of the content and I agree. I think we disagree on the aesthetic choices of how it was presented. Wow, I'm a little surprised Walken did most of his own dancing. Just one more reason to admire one of my favorite actors of all times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Clark Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I should point out that Kubrick was into centre framing and "atomic windows" were in for while and the moves are tame compared to what Abel Gance got up to in the 1920s . It's all a style decision. Kubrick did make a number of music 'videos'... of sorts... here's one... an a cappella number... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 You need to use your full real name, it's one of the forum rules. You should contact Tim Tyler. the site owner to do this for you, since you can't do it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Another "centre" director: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I think some people are misunderstanding this video. Yes the framing isn't very exciting but the point here seems to have been to get as much of the performance into a single take. It's centre framed for basic practical and budgetary reasons to try and capture the performance as easily as possible. It allows the dancer to move into either side of the frame. As it is there are shots in the video where they miss the shot a bit. I suspect the cuts are covering other issues of some kind too. I think there are a few shots where they could have tried something else in terms of framing as there are definitely shots where you know exactly where the dancer will be without extensive practice runs and they could have done more interesting shots there but then those shots might have looked out of place when almost the entire rest of the video is centre framed. I have to say that I'm not at all impressed with the lighting in this, it seems to have been lit very UK style and I think there could have been more opportunity to do something interesting but again they are going to be constrained by the fact the dancer is moving all around the space and you don't want to see any lighting equipment! It's basically all about the performance and trying to not let the cinematography get in the way of that at all. From that point of view it does a good job. To be honest the way things are going with cinematography this could well be a more interesting video cinematography wise than what the future has in store for us, assuming the trend for really bland out boring cinematography continues. I guess if they wanted to have more interesting framing they should maybe have thought about shooting wide in 4K or even 6K and cropping in in post. I expect that is how video's like this will be done in the future. Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Another "centre" director: As the video makes clear with the vertical centre line, much of Wes Andersons shots aren't about centre framing at all but about symmetry. Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Indeed, using symmetry part of how you frame shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Indeed, using symmetry part of how you frame shots. Not always of course but Wes Andersons stuff is highly symmetrical and it is often more about the symmetry and riffing on that than the centre framing. He occasionally throws in asymmetrical shots too that are centre framed so you aren't way off base to suggest that he likes to experiment with centre framing but most of those shots in the little video are clearly about the symmetry of which the centre framing is a by product. It's a little odd that the video has correctly put a line right down the middle but then tries to approach it in terms of centre framing. ...and obviously when shots are not centre framed they will most often also not be symmetrical. Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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