Working in England/ London

[Dominik Muench]

thanks for that.

does anyone have any tips for how to start out and get a foot in the door ?

[Rik Andino]

thanks for that.

does anyone have any tips for how to start out and get a foot in the door ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Everyone has a tip...

But no one has a scientifically proven method.

If there was one--boy you'd sure see lots of people heading in that route. :)

 

 

My advice is if you want to give it a wack at filmmaking

Go straight to the lion's den--Hollywood...

And if it doesn't work out you can go anywhere...

But at least you gave it a go on the front lines.

 

 

Good Luck

[Dominik Muench]

thanks for the advice, its not that i dont have industrie experience, i meant tips on how to get a grip in a new surrounding/city where you dont knowthe companies or production houses.

[Rik Andino]

If you want an example of attacking, it's when I am called all of the names listed below, by a certain some one:

 

"little biyotch"

 

"creepy bastard"

 

"Neo Nazi"

 

R.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I can't believe what I just read from your posts Richard...

You do push the envelop...

 

First of all this is not a forum for your political opinions...

Of course you'r not the only one responsible for this...

There are many others just as guilty (myself included from time to time).

 

Second of all--I can't believe you just called French Canadiens puny...

And the French language insignificant.

 

Personally I don't speak Fluent French but I find the language amazing...

And I feel Montreal is a beautiful city with much more personality than Toronto.

And I find it quite out of line your insulting manner...

You do come off as a bit of an intolerant snob

And that is why you seem to get into insulting contest with other immature posters.

 

I'd (as well as other poster) would appreciate it if you'd relax your tone a bit...

There is no need to respond with anger, it only leads to more anger and hate.

This is a friendly forum and we should maintain it as such...

Your insulting manner doesn't always help.

 

Anyways I apologize for the preaching.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> i meant tips on how to get a grip in a new surrounding/city where you dont know the

> companies or production houses.

 

Why do you assume it's even possible? Ignoring the fact that the wannabes-to-jobs ratio in London is probably higher than anywhere else on the planet, where do you get your unstoppable confidence that it's just a case of walking in and signing up? Even if I was good enough to do this sort of work, which I'm not and probably never will be, it would make not one iota of difference to my expectation of actually being allowed to do it.

 

Some people need a good whack with the clue-stick with regard to this stuff. The situation is almost hopeless. If I were you, I'd hang around and be unemployed in a nice sunny place filled with friendly people rather than this awful pit.

 

Phil

[Guest]

Oh don't worry Rik those names I was called all came from one(1) person, it's not like it was a gang attack. Nor was that person what I would call, "influential" in any way, so really it's of no concern. In fact more of a badge of honor :D

 

And as you point out there are tons of people here that get into "other stuff", it's not just me by a long shot.

 

I called the population of Quebec "puny" compared to the rest of North America, it was a mathematical comparison. 7 million vs 340 million. I was not refering to the people of Quebec.

 

Any way it's a moot point, we continue to pray for Quebec's departure from Canada on this side of the border, God willing one day it will happen.

 

R.

[Benjamin_Lussier]

Richard... leave it there.. please

 

Phil... You're quite the optimistic type, arent you? :blink:

I mean.. what your saying is dont try anything when its difficult...

Obstacles are the stepping stones of success... How can you succeed if you dont even try? Do you really want to die knowing you didnt even TRY to change your life for the best? I know I don't... IMO.. you HAVE to try.... and so far it has worked for me and many others.

 

Ben

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

> You can get a mortgage on a basic home, on a basic salary working in Jessops

> at 18!

 

Try it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well put it this way, my colleague is about 22 I think, he works on a basic salary of £16,000 per year (I hope he doesn't come on this site) and he's just bought a house in London, not a flat, but a house.

 

Plus houses out in America are quite cheap anyway.

 

If people were a bit more patriotic and actually liked the country they lived in, maybe it would make England a better place.

 

I know you might be thinking who the hells this kid trying to tell me this, but honestly, friends and family of mine have done it, so it's definatelly achievable.

 

Obstacles are the stepping stones of success... How can you succeed if you dont even try?

I agree completely there, need some *get up and go* attitude.

 

 

Bad points I find about england:

1. Chav's and pikeys

2. VAT is quite high

3. Houses are quite expensive

4. Weather could be nicer at times

Edited May 8, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Guest]

"If people were a bit more patriotic and actually liked the country they lived in, maybe it would make England a better place."

 

Well from 1812 to 1914, no people on earth where more patriotic than the English.

 

Of course England ruled the world as the sole superpower during that period, maybe that had some thing to do with it?

 

R.

[Dominik Muench]

i dont expect it to be easy, its not easy anywhere in the world i think, but i know what i can do and what i am capable of and i have no problem working hard so why isnt it worth giving it a try ? if everyone just winges around how bat it is here and there but actually doesnt do anything about its situation fine , he deserves it.

[Rolfe Klement]

My advice would be go and introduce yourself at the major players - don't go early or late (checkin and check out times)

 

Go to Arri Media, Arri GB etc all at Uxbridge

Go to Optex (N London)

Go to ICE Film (N London)

 

Go to some of the lighting compaines.

 

Sign yourself up to Shooting people - it is a start - use your discretion about which jobs you do - I produced a short using SP which wound up with my 2nd AC becoming a regular for a very big commercial cameraman. My Dolly grip strated working solidly afterwards etc. And my co-producer has just had his feature greenlight and needs people... But many jobs will lead nowhere...

 

Go to the theatre (not west end shows) and get to know,meet and date :)

actors, music people, arts people, theatre people, film people: go to pubs with bands, go to open mike nights,

 

Pass your reel around

 

London is hard but there is amazing culture, a huge mix of people, the Turner art show at the Tate, Learn about lighting before KINOFlo... from the master paintings available to view at the major galleries - and the louvre in Paris is 4hrs away - door to door

 

The best dance, art, filmm, band and music companies all come through here at one time or another.

 

And the cloudy weather (point source through huge diffusion) makes shooting outdoors great :)

 

thanks

 

Rolfe

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> Sign yourself up to Shooting people - it is a start

 

No. It isn't. I am aghast that you would suggest it. Avoid!

 

Phil

[Kevin Zanit]

. . . "Plus houses out in America are quite cheap anyway . . ."

 

Um, are you kidding?

 

What part of America? Any town with filmmaking in it as a major industry is extremely expensive.

 

I don't know the cost of living in England/ London, but I am sure it is expensive as well.

 

Some houses have recently more than tripled in value. A house with 2 or 3 bedrooms, 2 or 3 bathrooms, and a somewhat decent backyard goes for about $800,000 to $1,500,000 in the area I am in (Woodland Hills, CA which is by no means Bellaire or anything). My family has another house in New Bury Park (which over the years has quadrupled in value); it is about 20 miles further from the city than where I live. Houses have gotten crazy expensive out here. My cousin just bought a house in NY for $500,000. It is very old, in poor condition and very small. That?s a lot of money for something like that.

 

Like I said, I am not familiar with the housing prices your way, so if you consider the above cheap for housing then I feel your pain!

 

 

Kevin Zanit

[Guest]

Try Utah for housing. 800k will buy you a mansion there. Tons of CA people have packed up and moved there cashing out the inflated value of their homes.

 

They have a few movies going through there every year plus it's close enough to LA that you can drive or jet in.

 

Certainly America's two film hubs, LA and NYC, have housing prices beyond reach of "normal people." And as you point out Kevin the value for your money just isn't there.

 

Although LA is just one earthquake away from having very cheap housing prices. :D

 

R.

[Kevin Zanit]

I would have to pass on living in Utah for more than a few reasons.

 

Any more rural area is going to be cheaper than the city, but that is because the city is where things are happening business wise.

 

Maybe two movies shoot in Utah a year (and I punctuate the maybe), that is hardly enough to hold one over (assuming you even get hired for the film). The most work that comes through there was Touched by an Angel and a lot of the Hallmark films. The only reason they shoot there is because there are no unions to raise the price of the crew up.

 

For anyone that is not an established name (such as myself), living in Utah or anywhere else that is more than a 45 minute drive from LA is just not practical work wise.

 

Kevin Zanit

[Guest]

Geez Kevin, you really want your cake and eat it to.

 

Cheap housing plus lots of film work? There's just no pleasing you.

 

Ok how about Wellington NZ? Now there you can get a big house on the cheap, in a great climate, and have access to Peter Jackson's Kiwi filmmaking machine.

 

R

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

There's absolutely nothing in the town where I live for the sort of prices you quote; I can't even rent an apartment (and I mean a studio, one up on a bedsit) for less than the equivalent of $1200/month.

 

The US is very, very cheap for almost everything, but particularly housing. Only the more upmarket areas of LA and New York start to reach UK prices.

 

Oh, yeah, and, er - living more than 45 minutes from LA probably isn't practical for me either. Oh dear. Whoops. See the problem?

 

Phil

Edited May 9, 2005 by Phil Rhodes

[Guest]

Hey Phil,

 

Why don't you tell our American friends what a gallon of gasoline costs in the UK?

 

People in the US are freaking out over high gas prices, but they are practically giving it away compared to European prices.

 

It's all relative, and it could always be worse.

 

R.

[Kevin Zanit]

Nope Richard, I am quite okay with the housing prices as they went up after buying in.

 

Property is about the best investment you can have, rent them out taking advantage of the sellers/ renters market.

 

My response was to address the incorrect statement (that I quoted) that housing in the US is cheap. Maybe I should have been more specific, to limiting it to major film markets, but this is a filmmaking board, so I assumed we were referring to areas where major filmmaking takes place.

 

A house in the middle of nowhere is clearly going to be cheap, but for people who want to work on movies, they need to live near an area where movies are made. It happens that such an area is quite expensive.

 

If people feel that living 5 to 20 hours (driving) away from a major film market is practical, then go for it. Drive to your hearts desire. For me, shooting in the city with a call time of 8 means I am leaving at least at 6:30 to get somewhere that is 17 to 20 miles away (about 20 minute drive without traffic). It doesn?t sound like much, but that hour and a half less sleep really kills; imagine having 2 or 3 hours less.

 

I am not complaining, I am very happy with where I live, and the commute is just part of life. But don't kid yourself; just because a house in Alabama is cheap doesn?t mean the places where you would want to live for filmmaking are.

 

Kevin Zanit

[Kevin Zanit]

From what I am told the average UK citizen drives about 18,000 kilometers a year. The average US citizen does about 32,000 Kilometers a year (20,000 miles). So a US citizen drives about 14,000 Km more than a UK citizen. That said, the price of gas in the UK is about $5.44 (USD) and where I live is about $2.50. So it about cancels out.

 

That said, the public transportation in the UK is much better than LA, and your average housewife is driving a gas guzzling big SUV, where the average car in the UK is smaller. The distance from where I live to, say Acton would put someone in Europe in another country. This is not a contest, it sounds to me like we are all getting screwed by the gas companies.

 

My source for the gas price is here: http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/uk/petrol.htm

 

 

Kevin Zanit

[Greg McKneally]

Hi Dmuench, I am a foreigner (Canadian) living and working in London. I work as a director, post-production supervisor, occasional cinematographer and 3D animation instructor - and I totally agree with Rolfe Klement's comments about the situation in London.

 

Man, there is loads of video/film production + post-production happening in London. I am extremely busy every day - a huge mix of projects, ocassionally less-than-exciting, but over the years I have been doing more and more interesting stuff. Now I turn down the boring projects and focus on the good ones. Although to get to that point, I have had to diversify my skillset by learning new things - and I keep learning all the time. Especially in terms of post-production, London is on the cutting edge, and you have to keep one step ahead.

 

If you only want to look through a film camera on a feature - you will struggle, but if you are interested in shooting documentaries, music videos, shorts, commercials, corporates and TV, or in learning other related skills like editing, digital cinematography, pre-vis etc.... there is work to be found.

 

Granted, there is much less feature film production than in LA. We all know this. And I agree that the weather in London can be miserable. But when the sun comes out, even the dogs are smiling.

 

I know a lot of people in London who are trying to break into the industry and are struggling. If no one is offering you a long-term contract, you really have to make things happen for yourself - find the funding, find the projects, make it happen. Its hard to break in, and getting harder every day - all over the world. And in London people often won't work with you if they haven't heard about you from someone else.

 

You have to really push yourself to establish the (all-important) connections that can make or break you in this industry. Getting into the scene anywhere is difficult, but in London you will have to get people talking about you. You will also probably have to have another job to survive in this amazingly expensive city at first - but you can work your way into the industry if you have skills and talent, and are willing to work your ass off for not very much money (especially compared to your rent)

 

Anyway. Aside from the interesting and slightly saddening comments about Canada -this forum hasn't had too much to say about living and working in London. Any one else have any comments?

 

Oh... and the galleries, theatre, dance, VJ scene, experimental video art scene, schools... all blossoming in rainy old london. Its great. besides, if you are an EU citizen.. come on over, check it out, work for a while - if its not working out for you, go elsewhere with few new independent London projects on your showreel.

 

g

[Guest]

"Hi Dmuench, I am a foreigner (Canadian) living and working in London."

 

Ug....I don't think Phil Rhodes wants to hear about another Canadian stealing work from off his table in London.

 

R.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

What d'you guys reckon he spends 95% of his time instructing...

 

I know a lot of people like that!

 

Phil

[Dominik Muench]

thanks greg, no im deff. interested in doing tvc and musicvideo work, in your opinion how hard is it to get into that area ?

[Greg McKneally]

Dmuench - Its hard to get into music video work for the best bands - you will have to build up your London portfolio by doing work for smaller independent labels (sometimes for free) - but get a few plays on MTV/MTV2 and you are on your way. You will also have to build and maintain relationships with production companies that have the connections with the agencies and record labels. Lots of self-promotion is required. If you can start that before you come to London, that would be useful.

 

 

Phil is right that working in London can be very hard - nobody is denying that.

But Phil - you are one negative dude. I can respect that, given the complexities of working in this industry, but don't jump to conclusions that aren't founded. Actually I don't spend 95% of my time teaching. I spend 1-2 days a week lecturing, which allows me to share the things I've learned, and keep my skills sharp. Most of my time is spent working on productions or doing post-production, developing treatments, researching new techniques and opportunities, doing video installations...etc.

 

g

 

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