A Lasergraphics Director scanner on eBay $145K

Tyler Purcell · January 31, 2022

1 minute ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

If you're trying to do high volume work, this isn't the scanner for you. But that's not what this scanner is for.

Right, but what does this machine do that an Imagica can't? That an Arri Scan XT can't? Both WAY cheaper.

Perry Paolantonio · January 31, 2022

4 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Right, but what does this machine do that an Imagica can't? That an Arri Scan XT can't? Both WAY cheaper.

Imagica: The Director we're talking about is better in that it doesn't have a dicey old sensor that will eventually fail on you. And you can still get support for it. Imagica is dead so unless you're going to rebuild the scanner with your own cameras and software, you're operating on borrowed time.

ArriScan XT: you're comparing a 12 year old machine (the Director in question) with a new model Arriscan. Apples to oranges again (and the Arriscan XT is also at least 2x-3x the price of this, I haven't looked recently). If you compare this Director with an ArriScan of the same vintage, the Director is a comparable, if not better, scanner.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Perry Paolantonio

Robert Houllahan · January 31, 2022

2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Right, but what does this machine do that an Imagica can't? That an Arri Scan XT can't? Both WAY cheaper.

I had an Imagica ImagerXEPlus (last latest model) It was dead ass slow, like 15-20sec a frame slow for 4K and the Toshiba Tri-Linear CCDs in the Imagica scanners fail at a high rate and are noisy to begin with, I gave the Imagica scanner away, for free.

A Northlight is a better scanner in that speed class with it's Kodak Tri-Linear CCD.

An ArriscanXT is $385,000.00 that is the current price without the liquid gate option.

The 4K Director is probably apples to oranges with an original Arriscan (1.5fps 4K 5fps 2K) both pin registered, both true RGB both very good machines.

Some situations and high end clients won't accept scans from a CFA scanner they require true RGB scans, and also I think the Director like the Arriscan can do IR.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Robert Houllahan

Tyler Purcell · February 1, 2022

5 hours ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

Imagica: The Director we're talking about is better in that it doesn't have a dicey old sensor that will eventually fail on you. And you can still get support for it. Imagica is dead so unless you're going to rebuild the scanner with your own cameras and software, you're operating on borrowed time.

ArriScan XT: you're comparing a 12 year old machine (the Director in question) with a new model Arriscan. Apples to oranges again (and the Arriscan XT is also at least 2x-3x the price of this, I haven't looked recently). If you compare this Director with an ArriScan of the same vintage, the Director is a comparable, if not better, scanner.

I was thinking about low-cost pin-registered machines. The Imagica is peanuts and yes the imager is a problem, but supposedly they have some at Imagica as they are still in business and supporting them.

I maybe mistaken about the Arriscan XT, I'm thinking of the model before the XT, the one you can get for peanuts these days, but still has the 6k capture, all be it slow.

Dan Baxter · February 1, 2022

8 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Right, but what does this machine do that an Imagica can't? That an Arri Scan XT can't? Both WAY cheaper.

The Director has an 8mm option that was added, so you should be able to purchase the 8mm gate for it. Neither the Arriscan XT nor Imagica scanners can do 8mm.

Tyler Purcell · February 1, 2022

1 hour ago, Dan Baxter said:

The Director has an 8mm option that was added, so you should be able to purchase the 8mm gate for it. Neither the Arriscan XT nor Imagica scanners can do 8mm.

I don't think that's a big deal. You can buy an inexpensive scanner that does the narrow gauge formats like I did.

Tho I will say, for "restoration" you probably wouldn't use ANY of the machines above due to the pin registered movements and shinked/damaged film.

Perry Paolantonio · February 1, 2022

5 hours ago, Dan Baxter said:

The Director has an 8mm option that was added, so you should be able to purchase the 8mm gate for it. Neither the Arriscan XT nor Imagica scanners can do 8mm.

No you can’t. Completely different machine, mechanically

Perry Paolantonio · February 1, 2022

8 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I was thinking about low-cost pin-registered machines. The Imagica is peanuts and yes the imager is a problem, but supposedly they have some at Imagica as they are still in business and supporting them.

I maybe mistaken about the Arriscan XT, I'm thinking of the model before the XT, the one you can get for peanuts these days, but still has the 6k capture, all be it slow.

Imagica is not in business, at least as a film scanner maker. They are not supporting them. Imagica sold the IP to Fotokem, which owned it for a while. then RTI was selling and supporting the machines, but they are no longer in business. Most of the hardware was auctioned off 3-4 years ago. It may be that whatever RTI has morphed into is still supporting these machines in some way, with NOS parts but imagica doesn’t exist.

you can’t get an arriscan for “peanuts” but you can get them used and they’re cheaper than new. But like the Lasergraphics machine you have to spend a bundle on support contracts. The 6k sensor is meant for 4K output, like the northlight 1. You *can* scan at 6k but you lose the benefit of oversampling and outputting 4K. The XT is a very different machine in most respects.

Dan Baxter · February 1, 2022

28 minutes ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

The 6k sensor is meant for 4K output, like the northlight 1. You *can* scan at 6k but you lose the benefit of oversampling and outputting 4K. The XT is a very different machine in most respects.

It uses a 3K sensor.

37 minutes ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

No you can’t. Completely different machine, mechanically

You are correct, I stand corrected there. Director 10K was the first model to offer an 8mm option.

Perry Paolantonio · February 1, 2022

1 hour ago, Dan Baxter said:

It uses a 3K sensor.

It is a 3k sensor on a piezo stage to make a 6k image, which is then downsampled to 4k for output.

Dan Baxter · February 1, 2022

That's right, but it's not a 6K sensor. You can't always use 6K. For example if you use the warped film pressure plate it limits the scanner to 3K with no microscanning.

Robert Houllahan · February 1, 2022

4 minutes ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

It is a 3k sensor on a piezo stage to make a 6k image, which is then downsampled to 4k for output.

Similar to how the new latest Director uses a piezo stage with a 5K sensor to make 10K

Also the new Director is a pinless sprocketless system with a monochrome sensor multi-flash RGB-IR LED lamp and uses LaserGraphics excellent machine vision GPU perforation registration which is why they offer 8mm on it now.

Arri does offer a upgrade path from the Arriscan to the ArriscanXT I think it is $80K or so to do the sensor and electronics swap. I don't know if LG offers a rebuild of the old Director into a 10K machine but if they do I imagine it would be pretty expensive as the whole gate / lamp / camera system is entirely different.

Perry Paolantonio · February 1, 2022

4 minutes ago, Robert Houllahan said:

I don't know if LG offers a rebuild of the old Director into a 10K machine but if they do I imagine it would be pretty expensive as the whole gate / lamp / camera system is entirely different.

I'm pretty certain this is a "trade-up" situation. The whole film path is different, and even the built-in screen is on the opposite side. I don't think the newer models have the gigantic removable module in the middle. I think on the new one, gate changes are more like they are on the scanstation.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Perry Paolantonio

Robert Houllahan · February 1, 2022

1 minute ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

I'm pretty certain this is a "trade-up" situation. The whole film path is different, and even the built-in screen is on the opposite side. I don't think the newer models have the gigantic removable module in the middle. I think on the new one, gate changes are more like they are on the scanstation.

Yeah it is basically a whole new machine and only the film platters and dancer arms are likely to be the same between the two. I would guess that the Director 10K is about a $400-450K machine.

Tyler Purcell · February 1, 2022

5 hours ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

It may be that whatever RTI has morphed into is still supporting these machines in some way, with NOS parts but imagica doesn’t exist.

I doubt they have new stock, but parts are parts.

5 hours ago, Perry Paolantonio said:

you can’t get an arriscan for “peanuts” but you can get them used and they’re cheaper than new. But like the Lasergraphics machine you have to spend a bundle on support contracts. The 6k sensor is meant for 4K output, like the northlight 1. You *can* scan at 6k but you lose the benefit of oversampling and outputting 4K. The XT is a very different machine in most respects.

Cheaper than you could ever imagine, but getting support is tricky. You're basically an island at that point. At least the support contract for LG isn't horrible IF you're a house that is scanning a lot.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Tyler Purcell

Perry Paolantonio · February 1, 2022

3 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I doubt they have new stock, but parts are parts.

not if they don't exist.

RTI's inventory was auctioned off. I know, because I was bidding on some of it. Imagica scanner chassis, cabinets full of parts, intellectual property rights, service manuals, lenses, everything it takes to make these scanners. When RTI went out of business, the parts were scattered to the winds.

There is a new company, MMT, that seems to have picked up some of the IP, particularly on the film cleaners. They show nothing about Imagica parts, service or complete scanners. So I guess I misspoke when I assumed MMT would support them. No idea where those parts are. Probably with people who own the old scanners and wanted backup pieces, or folks like me who wanted things like the chassis to build a new scanner on.

My point here is that the Imagica is useless as a film scanner as-configured. It's slow with a mediocre sensor that's prone to failure. You can't just pop in a new one - these machines are loaded with custom circuit boards for image processing and don't run on standard computers. Nothing about them is "off the shelf". They're good for gutting and rebuilding, but that's about it.