Monica Rosselli Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Hello everyone; I'm about to have some reel of old B/W Reversal & Color Reversal 8mm film (mostly Ferrania & Kodak) from the 50s/60s/70s scanned at a facility which uses the FilmFabriek HDS+; I'm planning to do a full edge-to-edge overscan, 4096x3000 resolution, and since it's for a documentary feature I chose the DPX format, which the HDS+ tech specs sheet labels as a 10bit log. I need to maximize the data latitude for grading & post-production. Since I'm pretty new to the film scanning game, I'd like to seek some advice for the instructions I'll give to the scan operator, in order to better suit my particular post-production needs. I've had some brief tests done and the first question that pops in my mind is this: - Opening the 4K 10bit log DPX tests in DaVinci & After Effects (AE with color management turned off) the image is pretty consistent across the two softwares, and looks already "developed"; meaning, il looks like the DPX has already a "baked-in gamma" that makes it look like it's already a delivery version, but not necessarly the delivery version I've in mind, as I need to be able to work on it and try different gradings; as far as I understand DPX, it's RAW data, so all the post-production latitude should be there no matter what (?), but: should I ask for a more "flat looking" settings on the FilmFabirek acquisition software? Or am I misunderstanding this? Thanks everyone, Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cunningham Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 You are correct in that you will want to ask for "flat" files. It seems that the facility may have given you a one-light or best-light grade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Rosselli Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Don Cunningham said: You are correct in that you will want to ask for "flat" files. It seems that the facility may have given you a one-light or best-light grade. Thanks for the answer. If I get the meaning of one-light/best light grade right, I think it's a one-light grade, made for overall exposure, with special attention paid to the white level of the sprocket holes, in order to never result burnt out, staying around 0,95 value; can you elaborate more on how to properly ask/set for "flat" DPX? I mean, in terms of what to aim for while setting the wheels of the filmfabriek acquiring software. Thanks Edited June 29, 2022 by Monica Rosselli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cunningham Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 In the US, I ask for LOG files (no grading of any kind). Professional scanning entities know (or should) to adjust output for low contrast and low saturation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Perry Paolantonio Posted June 29, 2022 Site Sponsor Share Posted June 29, 2022 Scans from Reversal aren't log. Log is only applicable to color negative scans. What you want to ask for is a flat scan, as suggested above. When we scan positive film on our ScanStation 6.5k, we typically set the black level to about 10% (roughly the same point as dmin on a log scan), and we reduce the white levels so that the perforations (where there is no film, thus maximum brightness from the light source) is at 100%. The whitest whites in the film fall where they may but will never blow out this way. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Rosselli Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) Thanks for the answers. 2 hours ago, Don Cunningham said: In the US, I ask for LOG files (no grading of any kind). Professional scanning entities know (or should) to adjust output for low contrast and low saturation. As per the scanner specs, FilmFabriek's DPX are 10bit log by default: https://filmfabriek.nl/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/FilmFabriek-HDS-2019-technical-specifications.pdf. So basically the tests I have are 10bit log DPX with "right contrast & and right saturation", while I should ask for "low contrast, low saturation", is this right? The next question that comes to mind is, if DPX are raw data logarithmically encoded, does the starting point really affect the grading latitude? In other words, a flatter starting point on the DPX does give inherently more post-production capability? 1 hour ago, Perry Paolantonio said: Scans from Reversal aren't log. Log is only applicable to color negative scans. What you want to ask for is a flat scan, as suggested above. When we scan positive film on our ScanStation 6.5k, we typically set the black level to about 10% (roughly the same point as dmin on a log scan), and we reduce the white levels so that the perforations (where there is no film, thus maximum brightness from the light source) is at 100%. The whitest whites in the film fall where they may but will never blow out this way. Log applicable only to color negative scans-- already came across this info while doing research; what boggles me is that the DPX of FilmFabriek can only be log, as you can see here: https://filmfabriek.nl/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/FilmFabriek-HDS-2019-technical-specifications.pdf; so, by saying log is applicable only to negative, does it means the FilmFabriek does not have a right DPX option for reversal film? Seems unlikely, there's something I must be misunderstanding. DPX file format, also if I remember well, should be a log encoding of linear values from any given digital sensor. What am I missing? Thanks everyone ? Edited June 29, 2022 by Monica Rosselli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Perry Paolantonio Posted June 29, 2022 Site Sponsor Share Posted June 29, 2022 10 minutes ago, Monica Rosselli said: Seems unlikely, there's something I must be misunderstanding. DPX file format, also if I remember well, should be a log encoding of linear values from any given digital sensor. What am I missing? DPX can be linear as well. It's pretty flexible. You can even make YUV DPX files if you want, which are definitely not log. Log scans exist as a way to match the characteristics of negative film to a digital format. Log simply isn't applicable to positive film. When you scan positive film to a DPX file, it's linear. If they're treating it as log (which is certainly possible), you would need to also interpret it as such upon playback. But they would be doing it wrong if they are. My bet is that the specs are just incorrect or incomplete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Rosselli Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Perry Paolantonio said: DPX can be linear as well. It's pretty flexible. You can even make YUV DPX files if you want, which are definitely not log. Log scans exist as a way to match the characteristics of negative film to a digital format. Log simply isn't applicable to positive film. When you scan positive film to a DPX file, it's linear. If they're treating it as log (which is certainly possible), you would need to also interpret it as such upon playback. But they would be doing it wrong if they are. My bet is that the specs are just incorrect or incomplete. Let me elaborate on the DPX file format then, 'cause I'm getting confused :). So, DPX files are RAW RGB data values with a certain gamma curve (?). Digital sensor data always follow a linear trend, tough they get converted to a logarithmic trend to better mimic human eye's perception; this process is what they call gamma encoding, and it happens (I guess) within the DPX acquisition. So the DPX files I get are RAW RGB [10bit per channel] values with a log gamma, as per FilmFabriek specs; but is this gamma curve "baked in" [hence the "flat look" setting is crucial), or is it similar to metadata? In other words, changing the wheels settings to try and obtain a flatter look (rather than a "delivery look") prior the acquisition, will directly affect the RGB values? Or is it pointless, as I can apply and tweak any gamma curve in post? Thanks again, here to learn ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Rosselli Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 17 hours ago, Perry Paolantonio said: DPX can be linear as well. It's pretty flexible. You can even make YUV DPX files if you want, which are definitely not log. Log scans exist as a way to match the characteristics of negative film to a digital format. Log simply isn't applicable to positive film. When you scan positive film to a DPX file, it's linear. If they're treating it as log (which is certainly possible), you would need to also interpret it as such upon playback. But they would be doing it wrong if they are. My bet is that the specs are just incorrect or incomplete. To delve into DPX even further, I managed to print one of the test DPX metadata with ExifTool; here they are: Quote ExifTool Version Number : 12.42 File Name : TEST-01-8mm.dpx Directory : TESTS File Size : 51 MB File Modification Date/Time : 2022:05:20 18:23:57+02:00 File Access Date/Time : 2022:06:30 15:52:00+02:00 File Creation Date/Time : 2022:06:30 15:18:07+02:00 File Permissions : -rw-rw-rw- File Type : DPX File Type Extension : dpx MIME Type : image/x-dpx Byte Order : Big-endian Header Version : V1.0 DPX File Size : 50995200 Ditto Key : New Image File Name : Rullo_02_00064824.dpx Create Date : 2022:05:20 18:23:49:Rom Creator : daVinci Project : Copyright : Encryption Key : ffffffff Orientation : Horizontal (normal) Image Elements : 1 Image Width : 4096 Image Height : 3112 Data Sign : Unsigned Components Configuration : R, G, B Transfer Characteristic : Printing density Colorimetric Specification : Unknown (2) Bit Depth : 10 Image Description : IMAGE DESCRIPTION DATA Source File Name : Source Create Date : Input Device Name : Input Device Serial Number : Aspect Ratio : 1:1 Original Frame Rate : 18 Shutter Angle : 0 Frame ID : Slate Information : SLATE INFO Time Code : 16777478 Frame Rate : 18 User ID : daVinci Image Size : 4096x3112 Megapixels : 12.7 The transfer characteristic is listed as Printing density (corresponding to "1" value in the DPX image header; https://www.fileformat.info/format/dpx/egff.htm), which should be a logarithmic-type function; I expected it to be "Logarithmic" (value "3" in the image header), but that log transfer I read elsewhere was supposed to be meant for digital cameras footage. I wonder if these metadata are realiable, but it seems to confirm the HDS+ FilmFabriek scanner makes indeed DPX files with a logarithmic-type [Printing density] transfer function. Another thing that boggles me is that DaVinci has been used to output the files, I wonder if it would be better to ask for untouched DPX files straight out of the HDS+ scanner software. Thoughts? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) OP...is the exposure pretty constant on the film? Are they home movies? If exposure is all over the place, you may need timed scans, as opposed to best light scans, to get the best you can from the film. Just depends on how much the exposure varies. You should put up some sample scan photos. Text only goes so far. Good luck with your project! Edited June 30, 2022 by Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Perry Paolantonio Posted June 30, 2022 Site Sponsor Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Monica Rosselli said: To delve into DPX even further, I managed to print one of the test DPX metadata with ExifTool; here they are: That does not look like a file direct off the scanner. As you noted, it appears to have been exported from Resolve. You should ask for a DPX file direct off the scanner, and look at that. Perhaps they're doing a one-light grade in resolve and exporting DPX from that, which is why the file looks this way. In any case, ensure you have a DPX file made by the scanner software directly, and then look at the metadata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted June 30, 2022 Site Sponsor Share Posted June 30, 2022 As Perry said a positive film is a Linear scan and we use basically the same sensor on one of our Xena scanners to do small gauge scanning it is 4112x3008 12-bit and I can almost always scan color and B&W reversal stocks with a full grade-able range to 10bit linear DPX so it is a good sensor for this work. I am not sure what control the HDS+ has over RGB balance etc. so it is possible that the scanner show did some corrections in Resolve to fix color balance etc they could not get done in the scanner. If you look at the scans in Resolve etc. and open the scopes are the RGB levels balanced? Is there any clipping in the shadows or hilites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted July 1, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted July 1, 2022 I’ll just say for the record owning a FF HDS+ you’re never going to get the consistency from print to print. There is no way to make a setting and save it. There is only a histogram to tell you where your exposure is. You’re generally capturing the full frame to get 4k so not seeing perfs henceforth not being able to set your base settings with it. We’ve struggled to get consistent results, without resorting to the automatic tools which work fine for print stock but not for negative. You’ll also never get a log look, the machine is not designed for that. It’s very hard due to the lack of proper scopes and calibration tools. It’s close but sadly still a toy in many ways. We mostly do negative and it’s difficult. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) On 7/1/2022 at 12:57 AM, Tyler Purcell said: I’ll just say for the record owning a FF HDS+ you’re never going to get the consistency from print to print. There is no way to make a setting and save it. There is only a histogram to tell you where your exposure is. You’re generally capturing the full frame to get 4k so not seeing perfs henceforth not being able to set your base settings with it. We’ve struggled to get consistent results, without resorting to the automatic tools which work fine for print stock but not for negative. You’ll also never get a log look, the machine is not designed for that. It’s very hard due to the lack of proper scopes and calibration tools. It’s close but sadly still a toy in many ways. We mostly do negative and it’s difficult. Is it similar to the Retroscan where you got aperture and a light brightness dial? You should do a YT video on its operation. When I first started cine' scanning I tried auto exposure. Terrible results. Everything is manual now. And much is timed scans if exposure is not consistent. Edited July 2, 2022 by Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) On 6/30/2022 at 10:12 AM, Monica Rosselli said: To delve into DPX even further, I managed to print one of the test DPX metadata with ExifTool; here they are: The transfer characteristic is listed as Printing density (corresponding to "1" value in the DPX image header; https://www.fileformat.info/format/dpx/egff.htm), which should be a logarithmic-type function; I expected it to be "Logarithmic" (value "3" in the image header), but that log transfer I read elsewhere was supposed to be meant for digital cameras footage. I wonder if these metadata are realiable, but it seems to confirm the HDS+ FilmFabriek scanner makes indeed DPX files with a logarithmic-type [Printing density] transfer function. Another thing that boggles me is that DaVinci has been used to output the files, I wonder if it would be better to ask for untouched DPX files straight out of the HDS+ scanner software. Thoughts? Thanks! That is why you do tests / sample scans. You can debate all you want with words, but where are the test images? You try the options to see what works best for you. The tests have the final word. Edited July 2, 2022 by Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted July 3, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted July 3, 2022 7 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: Is it similar to the Retroscan where you got aperture and a light brightness dial? It has rough RGB controls for both brightness and contrast, plus luminance channel. It also has fine tune adjustments per channel for negative workflows. So there are lots of sliders, but sadly without a RGB waveform, it's very hard to setup. I know they're fixing this with future software updates, so we wait. 7 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: You should do a YT video on its operation. When I first started cine' scanning I tried auto exposure. Terrible results. Everything is manual now. And much is timed scans if exposure is not consistent. Yes I need to. I just haven't found a happy medium with the scanner. Sometimes we knock it out of the ballpark, other times it's just not great and we have to re-scan. So it's super hit and miss unfortunately. What I plan on doing is shooting gray/color charts on each of the main negative stocks. Then scanning them and figuring out the best settings based on that. Then all we do is dial in the setting for the stock. The problem is, some lab rolls are very long and have many different stocks intermixed, so it can be challenging. The auto exposure tool on the HDS+ for print film works great. Ya let it auto correct the first few seconds, then set it to manual and run the entire roll off as manual. Great results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baxter Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 On 6/29/2022 at 11:32 PM, Monica Rosselli said: Hello everyone; I'm about to have some reel of old B/W Reversal & Color Reversal 8mm film (mostly Ferrania & Kodak) from the 50s/60s/70s scanned at a facility which uses the FilmFabriek HDS+; I'm planning to do a full edge-to-edge overscan, 4096x3000 resolution, and since it's for a documentary feature I chose the DPX format, which the HDS+ tech specs sheet labels as a 10bit log. I need to maximize the data latitude for grading & post-production. Since I'm pretty new to the film scanning game, I'd like to seek some advice for the instructions I'll give to the scan operator, in order to better suit my particular post-production needs. There's no point in asking for DPX - the raw format off the camera is DNG (raw Bayer DNG) that's what you want as it'll be a fraction of the size compared with DPX, and it shouldn't be modified by the capture software. On 7/3/2022 at 3:27 AM, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: Is it similar to the Retroscan where you got aperture and a light brightness dial? No it isn't similar at all, it has a true RGB light (the Cine2Digits one I think) whereas the Moviestuff scanners have a low-CRI white light which significantly limits the colour clarity/quality that you can get from the film. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Wise Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 On 7/3/2022 at 11:30 AM, Tyler Purcell said: It has rough RGB controls for both brightness and contrast, plus luminance channel. It also has fine tune adjustments per channel for negative workflows. So there are lots of sliders, but sadly without a RGB waveform, it's very hard to setup. I know they're fixing this with future software updates, so we wait. Have you considered updating to the recent paid software update? They have added waveform and vectorscope. I haven’t updated my HDS, but my Pictor has the most recent paid update with the new scopes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted July 12, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted July 12, 2022 16 hours ago, Andrew Wise said: Have you considered updating to the recent paid software update? They have added waveform and vectorscope. I was told to hold off due to a major update they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) On 7/2/2022 at 9:30 PM, Tyler Purcell said: It has rough RGB controls for both brightness and contrast, plus luminance channel. It also has fine tune adjustments per channel for negative workflows. So there are lots of sliders, but sadly without a RGB waveform, it's very hard to setup. I know they're fixing this with future software updates, so we wait. Yes I need to. I just haven't found a happy medium with the scanner. Sometimes we knock it out of the ballpark, other times it's just not great and we have to re-scan. So it's super hit and miss unfortunately. What I plan on doing is shooting gray/color charts on each of the main negative stocks. Then scanning them and figuring out the best settings based on that. Then all we do is dial in the setting for the stock. The problem is, some lab rolls are very long and have many different stocks intermixed, so it can be challenging. The auto exposure tool on the HDS+ for print film works great. Ya let it auto correct the first few seconds, then set it to manual and run the entire roll off as manual. Great results. This RGB scan mode you talk about. Doesn't the HDS+ just scan out of the box in true color? Why adjust in-scan on not in post? What is the verdict on the synthetic corundum bearing film guides you were working on Tyler? I think you said you are using sapphire or ruby bearings. Any progress with holding the film flat with the HDS+? If and when the guides are made, do you think they will work holding badly warped film pretty flat with the HDS+? Or is it for slightly warped film Tyler? Edited July 28, 2022 by Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted July 28, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: This RGB scan mode you talk about. Doesn't the HDS+ just scan out of the box in true color? Why adjust in-scan on not in post? It's just an RGB adjustment on the light source, very rudimentary. You can adjust in-scan, but the problem is that negative has way more dynamic range then the imager does. So you want a pretty flat scan over-all. 2 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: What is the verdict on the synthetic corundum bearing film guides you were working on Tyler? I think you said you are using sapphire or ruby bearings. Any progress with holding the film flat with the HDS+? Someday when I have time. I've been utterly slammed and I don't have the tools to do it sadly. So I'm relying on other people to assist and they're busy too. 2 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: If and when the guides are made, do you think they will work holding badly warped film pretty flat with the HDS+? Or is it for slightly warped film Tyler? I'm going to attempt to 3D print a little clamping mechanism to the gate which will hold it tight during scanning. Pretty easy to do, just need a printer and the time to design it. But I think with the modified gate and the film holder, which will be magnetized to the gate, it'll work A LOT better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said: It's just an RGB adjustment on the light source, very rudimentary. You can adjust in-scan, but the problem is that negative has way more dynamic range then the imager does. So you want a pretty flat scan over-all. Someday when I have time. I've been utterly slammed and I don't have the tools to do it sadly. So I'm relying on other people to assist and they're busy too. I'm going to attempt to 3D print a little clamping mechanism to the gate which will hold it tight during scanning. Pretty easy to do, just need a printer and the time to design it. But I think with the modified gate and the film holder, which will be magnetized to the gate, it'll work A LOT better. Have you had any luck talking with Filmfabriek about designing a warped film gate? Are you able to change gates easily on your HDS+? Filmfabriek advertises they got a 'passion for film,' so they should be receptive to user input and improvements, unless it is just a money-making deal. I could have had a HDS+ for free. A lady would have donated one to my Archive, the $$ that is, to buy one. But with the HDS+ sound issues...warped film issues...'it won't run right out of the box' issues, I didn't / couldn't accept her offer in good faith. Hopefully they improve the machine to fix these problems. <><><><> Selection from Linholf Archive DDTJRAC Edited July 29, 2022 by Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted July 29, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted July 29, 2022 5 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: Have you had any luck talking with Filmfabriek about designing a warped film gate? They're very slow to act on updates. Also because the gate is vertical instead of horizontal, it will need a clamping system as I said above, not something that they'd ever really design as it would need to be far more complicated than anything else on the machine in terms of design. Also, because it uses a laser trigger, the film would need to be held in place around the trigger too, which his not possible in the current design. That would take a re-design, not just an "add on" part. 5 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: Are you able to change gates easily on your HDS+? Yes, very. 5 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: Filmfabriek advertises they got a 'passion for film,' so they should be receptive to user input and improvements, unless it is just a money-making deal. I have found, most European companies do not take input from clients as well as American companies. 5 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: I could have had a HDS+ for free. A lady would have donated one to my Archive, the $$ that is, to buy one. But with the HDS+ sound issues...warped film issues...'it won't run right out of the box' issues, I didn't / couldn't accept her offer in good faith. Hopefully they improve the machine to fix these problems. I think for free even with the old camera, it's worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Wise Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 On 7/29/2022 at 6:50 AM, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: This RGB scan mode you talk about. Doesn't the HDS+ just scan out of the box in true color? Why adjust in-scan on not in post? It does scan out of the box in colour. the light source on the scanner is made up of red, green and blue LEDs. When they are all on, you get white light. The bayer filter on a camera sensor has red, green and blue filters. The idea is that the LEDs will match what the bayer filter on the camera, so you can saturate every photosite with light on the sensor totally. Cameras dynamic range is dependant on a few things (a lot that goes over my head so i won't pretend i understand), and having the RGB to saturate each channel on the camera is important for that. The LED design was made by frank vine - cine2digits, you can read about his design here. He's a very bright guy, and did a great job with it. http://www.cine2digits.co.uk/ in the software there are dials to adjust the intensity of each channel, and there is also an automatic function for positive film where it adjusts each channel to keep the white point just under clipping. It actually works really well. i'm a huge fan of it compared to the moviestuff software that used an average automatic exposure with a slider for exposure compensation. It would overexpose highlights if most of the scene was dark. The FF auto expososure does have limitatations, if it's a birthday party and someone is blowing out candles, it will prevent the candle from clipping, but the other parts of the scene would be too under exposed. So i will click to to manual, and scroll the exposure up manually. Also if someone is doing a pan over the ocean or grass with no white elements, it would tend to bring the scene up too much. My scanning method would be a mix of auto and manual. On 7/29/2022 at 11:51 PM, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: I could have had a HDS+ for free. A lady would have donated one to my Archive, the $$ that is, to buy one. But with the HDS+ sound issues...warped film issues...'it won't run right out of the box' issues, I didn't / couldn't accept her offer in good faith. Hopefully they improve the machine to fix these problems. That's almost unbeliveable! I would have accepted that offer in a heartbeat. Incredibly generous. I'm very happy with my Filmfabriek scanners, i own both the HDS+ and the pictor. I'd buy more if i had more work and need. I mostly scan positive 8mm move movies, and occasionally 16 and 8mm negative shot by filmmakers and hobbiests today on fresh film. I've managed to work out the negative scanning side of the software, and i can colour balance the scene in 30 sec now. Even easier if they shoot a grey card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) On 8/11/2022 at 10:55 PM, Andrew Wise said: It does scan out of the box in colour. the light source on the scanner is made up of red, green and blue LEDs. When they are all on, you get white light. The bayer filter on a camera sensor has red, green and blue filters. The idea is that the LEDs will match what the bayer filter on the camera, so you can saturate every photosite with light on the sensor totally. Cameras dynamic range is dependant on a few things (a lot that goes over my head so i won't pretend i understand), and having the RGB to saturate each channel on the camera is important for that. The LED design was made by frank vine - cine2digits, you can read about his design here. He's a very bright guy, and did a great job with it. http://www.cine2digits.co.uk/ in the software there are dials to adjust the intensity of each channel, and there is also an automatic function for positive film where it adjusts each channel to keep the white point just under clipping. It actually works really well. i'm a huge fan of it compared to the moviestuff software that used an average automatic exposure with a slider for exposure compensation. It would overexpose highlights if most of the scene was dark. The FF auto expososure does have limitatations, if it's a birthday party and someone is blowing out candles, it will prevent the candle from clipping, but the other parts of the scene would be too under exposed. So i will click to to manual, and scroll the exposure up manually. Also if someone is doing a pan over the ocean or grass with no white elements, it would tend to bring the scene up too much. My scanning method would be a mix of auto and manual. That's almost unbeliveable! I would have accepted that offer in a heartbeat. Incredibly generous. I'm very happy with my Filmfabriek scanners, i own both the HDS+ and the pictor. I'd buy more if i had more work and need. I mostly scan positive 8mm move movies, and occasionally 16 and 8mm negative shot by filmmakers and hobbiests today on fresh film. I've managed to work out the negative scanning side of the software, and i can colour balance the scene in 30 sec now. Even easier if they shoot a grey card. Well, I'm not going to take someone's money, just to sit on it and do nothing. That isn't right. I would have gladly bought a HDS+ or a Lasergraphics Archivist with her $$ . But, both companies have problems, and I don't want to take the money under false pretenses. Lasergraphics refuses to answer emails, and I won't send that type of $$ to a company that can't be bothered to answer emails. If I still lived in L.A. I could drive down there and bang on the door until they talk with me. If the scanner broke, I could drop it off for repairs to avoid a $7,500 service call that I don't have the $7,500 for. But being on the other side of the country, that won't work. Companies nowadays are pretty shitty to deal with. And it is not just scanner companies. You'd figure Lasergaphics would hire an illegal alien to come in a couple days a week to answer their emails. Tyler's report on the HDS+ was very troubling. I need something that works out of the box and is fairly easy to run. If Tyler has trouble working it...I'd be sunk! In addition, there are the sound sync problems with the HDS+ and the need for a warped film gate. About 75% of my film Archive is warped! From his report the company doesn't know what he is talking about or doesn't care when he brings it up to them...all very, very troubling for $50K. Believe me, I was ecstatic about the possibility of getting a HDS+ until I found out about all these problems. Also, Tyler mentioned image quality is somewhat subpar. The scans should be crisp...no sleepiness to the scan. This isn't a $300 Wolverine scanner. She felt bad too about this mess. I kept telling her scanners are not like buying cars or refrigerators and the companies are really terrible to deal with. She did buy me 1,000 4.7GB M-Disc for the VHS Archive as a donation and I was very happy about that. I stopped buying M-Disc after they raised the price from $2.10 to $3.15 per disc. I mean, sure, I can afford a $3.15 disc...but I can't afford $3,150.00 of M-Discs. Everything has skyrocketed in $$! Those 1,000 M-Disc have helped take a chunk out of the VHS tapes that have been sitting and building up. Anyway, I'm slowly getting out of cine' film and will just stick with still photography, audio, popular culture and VHS. I've sold off about 15% of the 16mm film Archive and 40% of the 8mm Archive. I was never really into 8mm. At the height I only had maybe 700 - 800 8mm films. I hate 8mm. I'm down to about 2,000 - 2100 16mm reels. Still need to finish the inventory to see what I got. I may get rid of most of the 16mm as well down the road, but I am still working on the VHS Archive digitizing tapes and burning her discs. When I get to finishing the 16mm inventory...I will get to it. I don't care anymore. Well, I keep buying lotto tickets here and there. If I can hit, even a small lotto I may buy an Arri scan. But who knows? It may not run warped film. But...at least they do answer their emails! You know, if you got millions, it does not matter if the HDS+ is crap or the Lasergraphics has issues or what the Arriscan cost. You can buy 5 of each to sort it out...$$ just does not matter to you. But if you don't have the $$...then working with cine' film, the digitization part, is a real nightmare for the broke archivist. As a plan B, I still got the Retroscan. I've been trying to get a cheap custom computer built so I can do some image stabilization with the Retroscan scans. The Retroscan would be doable (just) for silent film, especially black edge films, if the films can be stabilized. But my computer is crap and overheats under any little video job. And guess what? Almost none of the custom computer companies will answer their emails. I sent them all the specs upfront. Just basic stuff, nothing crazy. Well, a couple companies did answer. One wanted $5,000 to build one. Another one wrote back promptly. They said they would give me a quote in a day or so. That was a month ago. GD...what a mess! <><><><> Selection from Memes & Gif Archive Part of the Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Popular Culture Archive Edited August 13, 2022 by Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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