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Minolta XL-Sound 64 HELP


Valentin Iraola

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Hello, I bought a serviced Minolta XL-Sound 64 and I've been reading the manual but there are somethings that I don't understand. I'm new to manual exposure on super 8 so, this are my questions:

• The manual says: Film usable: Super 8 cartridges of sound or silent Outdoor - Indoor Type A Color (or Black-and-White) film having daylight film-speed ratings of 25 ASA or 100...    Does that mean that I can auto expose an Ektachrome 100D for example? Or I have to manual expose only? What film stock can I shoot on auto exposure?

• If there is any film stock I have to expose manually, how many stop/s more (because of light loss from viewfinder prism) should I set my external meter for the reading?

• Is it soo true that I shouldn't use my internal 85 filter, and use an external one screwed on the lens?

 

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Hi Valentin,

Congrats on your new camera!  Those Minoltas are solid.  I used a similar model to shoot my wedding.  In answer to your questions:

1) You should be able to use autoexposure  for 25 or 100 ASA film.   I generally prefer manual exposure though.  I don't like the way Auto makes the image "pump" as it reacts to different light levels. Exposing manually will prevent that but you will need to be more aware any light level changes as you move the camera around.  Manual exposure will also allow to you to use film of any ASA rating,  not just the two that this camera recognizes. 

2)  If you are using the camera's internal light meter you won't have to make any adjustments for light loss due to the viewfinder.  The camera already takes that into consideration.  The only time you would need to factor in light loss is if you were using an external meter.  

3)  An good external 85 filter will produce better results than using the built-in just due to age and the general lower level of quality that was used.  That said, it's probably not terrible in that camera.  The internal filter may be just fine depending on your requirements.  The only way to find out is to try it!

Have fun shooting!

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10 minutes ago, Stewart McLain said:

Hi Valentin,

Congrats on your new camera!  Those Minoltas are solid.  I used a similar model to shoot my wedding.  In answer to your questions:

1) You should be able to use autoexposure  for 25 or 100 ASA film.   I generally prefer manual exposure though.  I don't like the way Auto makes the image "pump" as it reacts to different light levels. Exposing manually will prevent that but you will need to be more aware any light level changes as you move the camera around.  Manual exposure will also allow to you to use film of any ASA rating,  not just the two that this camera recognizes. 

2)  If you are using the camera's internal light meter you won't have to make any adjustments for light loss due to the viewfinder.  The camera already takes that into consideration.  The only time you would need to factor in light loss is if you were using an external meter.  

3)  An good external 85 filter will produce better results than using the built-in just due to age and the general lower level of quality that was used.  That said, it's probably not terrible in that camera.  The internal filter may be just fine depending on your requirements.  The only way to find out is to try it!

Have fun shooting!

Hi Stewart, thank you very much! Yep, I've heard that it's a great camera. Ohh that's nice, yeah I'm going to make a long route trip so I needed a film stock to auto exposure with just pushing the button (because I won't be able to meter while I travel) and I was thinking in Vision 3 50D or Ekta 100D. So i'm gonna get pretty decent results if a auto expose an Ekta 100D for example? At what speed will my camera shoot it? 

I'm also thinking in shooting a Vision 3 500T (once we get to destiny) but I don't know at what film speed to shoot it. I wan't to be able to shoot it with auto exposure, but also try some manual exposure sometimes. I saw a guy who shot a 500T at 160T at daylight (don't know if in auto or manual), and I feel in love with the footage (look for Nick Collingwood post) . So I was wondering if I could just pop-in a 500T and auto exposure sometimes and manual too. If that's posible with autoexposure of my camera (Minolta XL-Sound 64), at what ISO will my camera expose it?

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31 minutes ago, Stewart McLain said:

The only time you would need to factor in light loss is if you were using an external meter.  

With that you mean, I only have to calculate factor in light loss when: manual exposing no? Sorry of too many questions but i'm super new to super 8 haha. 

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The Minolta XL 64 was designed to only recognize 25/40 (Daylight/Tungsten) and 100/160 speed films.  So basically it will only correctly identify 100D, and 200T. (200T is only 1/3 stop different from 160T so it's not a critical difference for the vast majority of situations.) The camera will assume that daylight film below 100D is 25 ASA.  Anything over 100D it will assume is 100 ASA.   So for anything other than these film speeds you will need to make manual exposure adjustments.  It's actually not all that hard though.  

Here are the general steps for using manual exposure with 100D or 200T film.  (You said your camera was recently refurbished so I'm assuming that the light meter was calibrated in the process and is reading correctly): 

Set the exposure to automatic, point the camera at your scene, and then gently press the record trigger halfway.  That engages the light meter and you will see the little needle in the viewfinder swing to the camera's suggested fstop.  Next, switch the camera to manual mode and set the exposure dial to match that fstop.   

If you're using a different ASA you'll use the above process to make compensations for the unrecognized film speed.  For example, if you're shooting 500T, that's approximately a 2 stop difference from 160T.  So you would use the above method for getting the camera's suggested exposure setting and then you manually set the fstop 2 stops down.  So if the auto setting read f4, you would stop down manually to f8.  

50D film is one stop more sensitive than 25D.  So if you're shooting 50D you would open up 1  stop.  If the auto setting read f4 you would manually open up to f2.8. 

Here are some good links about how super 8 cameras read the cartridge notches to determine film speed and how they affect the internal filter.

https://bluemooncameracodex.com/technical-reviews/2018/2/21/shooting-super-8-today-part-iii#:~:text=Tungsten-balanced Super 8 cartridges,in lieu of a switch.)

http://www.peaceman.de/blog/index.php/super-8-notch-ruler-new-and-improved 

 

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5 hours ago, Stewart McLain said:

The Minolta XL 64 was designed to only recognize 25/40 (Daylight/Tungsten) and 100/160 speed films.  So basically it will only correctly identify 100D, and 200T. (200T is only 1/3 stop different from 160T so it's not a critical difference for the vast majority of situations.) The camera will assume that daylight film below 100D is 25 ASA.  Anything over 100D it will assume is 100 ASA.   So for anything other than these film speeds you will need to make manual exposure adjustments.  It's actually not all that hard though.  

Here are the general steps for using manual exposure with 100D or 200T film.  (You said your camera was recently refurbished so I'm assuming that the light meter was calibrated in the process and is reading correctly): 

Set the exposure to automatic, point the camera at your scene, and then gently press the record trigger halfway.  That engages the light meter and you will see the little needle in the viewfinder swing to the camera's suggested fstop.  Next, switch the camera to manual mode and set the exposure dial to match that fstop.   

If you're using a different ASA you'll use the above process to make compensations for the unrecognized film speed.  For example, if you're shooting 500T, that's approximately a 2 stop difference from 160T.  So you would use the above method for getting the camera's suggested exposure setting and then you manually set the fstop 2 stops down.  So if the auto setting read f4, you would stop down manually to f8.  

50D film is one stop more sensitive than 25D.  So if you're shooting 50D you would open up 1  stop.  If the auto setting read f4 you would manually open up to f2.8. 

Here are some good links about how super 8 cameras read the cartridge notches to determine film speed and how they affect the internal filter.

https://bluemooncameracodex.com/technical-reviews/2018/2/21/shooting-super-8-today-part-iii#:~:text=Tungsten-balanced Super 8 cartridges,in lieu of a switch.)

http://www.peaceman.de/blog/index.php/super-8-notch-ruler-new-and-improved 

 

Awesome man, thanks very much for the info!

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Hi!

Welcome to fabulous world of real film shooting!

a) Shoot a test-film! Even if the camera was working fine when leaving the factory approximately 50 years ago, it might have developed some problems by now. 
b) As a newby, avoid manual exposure for shooting a serious project without doing some tests before. There are several pitfalls. E.g. you’ll have to understand the lightloss caused internally by the camera (beam splitter, filter, …).

c) When comparing the values from the camera’s internal lightmeter with the readings from an external lightmeter, then keep in mind that the S8-cameras‘ manuals never tell you how you what area of the image is used and how many sensors the camera has. And you will have to compensate for the lightloss (see b).

d) I have exposed the E100D correctly with automatic exposure in several different cameras without any problems. Nevertheless, this might depend on your camera (age, defects, design, features, …). And of course, you’ll have to know its limitations (e.g. the usually „strange“ reactions to flickering light sources like e.g. a fire).

e) You’ll have to understand the concept of the different types of color film and the required filtering:

Daylight balanced films (like the E100D) don’t require any filters when used in daylight. They only need a filter when used in artificial light (a blue one like e.g. a Wratten 80A).

Tungsten balanced films are balanced for artificial light (halogen, …) and hence don’t require any filters when used in artificial light. When used in daylight (alias sunlight), they need an orange filter (normally a Wratten 85 or equivalent).

Most Super8-cameras have a Wratten85 (or equivalent) with a complex mechanism to detect situations where it has to be automatically removed. (Sometimes this mechanism does not work properly anymore due to the age of the camera. And some cheaper cameras are completely lacking the mechanism.) There are only two reasons not to use this internal filter:

1) Mechanism broken

2) filter dirty, deteriorating or damaged

 

BTW: be careful when using LEDs: some of them are emitting light with the same „color temperature“ as the sun. So they are producing „daylight“ despite being an artificial light source. 

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22 hours ago, Stewart McLain said:

50D film is one stop more sensitive than 25D.  So if you're shooting 50D you would open up 1  stop.  If the auto setting read f4 you would manually open up to f2.8. 

Oops!  I totally stated that backwards.  In this instance you would close down 1 stop from f4 to f5.6   Sorry about that!

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