Tips and advice for lighting in day exterior forest scenes

[Akie Yano]

Hi! I’m shooting a short film with mostly exterior day forest scenes (3 days). My initial plan was just to use 12x12 silk for overhead diffusion, black floppies for negative fill, 4x4 styrofoam to light faces from the sun to minimise the budget but it turns out for the two days we’re shooting I have a choice to use lights as I have to use them for a night for day interior scene so I thought I might as well use these lights too for the day exterior scenes.

Here’s the complete list of gear that I can use for those two days:

• Nanlite Forza 500 (2) w/ parabolic, lantern, fresnel lens
• Nanlite Forza 300 (1) w/ parabolic, lantern, fresnel lens
• Nanlite Forza 60 (2) w/ parabolic
• 20x20 butterfly
• 12x12 butterfly
• 4x4 floppy (2)
• 4x4 styrofoam (2)
• Survival kit

The location looks like this and it will be decorated with around 8 earth-colored tents (for location 1):

 

There will be a maximum of 8 people to light in some scenes and 4-5 people in most scenes. I’m definitely going to use the 12x12 or 202x20 butterfly silk as overhead diffusion if the sunlight is too harsh. For the lights, I’m thinking of using the Forza 500 as backlight then using the styrofoam (bounced back from the backlight or another Forza 500 or another Forza 500 coming from another direction) as key light for the actors. Or if I need to use a light for the key, I can use a Forza 300 with a lighting modifier or 4x4 butterfly silk as diffusion and use the same Forza 500 as backlight. Actually, I'm not too sure if the 500 can cut it as usually strong HMIs are used for day exteriors so I was wondering if 2 Forza 500 combined can make it work. What do you think? And what else should I be looking out for this type of location?

Btw, the camera I’m going to use are Ursa Mini 12k pro for the A cam and a BMPCC 6k G2 for the B cam. Lenses are Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 art, Samyang 50mm and 85mm, and a Canon 70-200mm. (I have to use 2 cam setup because it's preferred by the director but personally I prefer a 1 cam setup). We have Schneider filters and I will most likely use 800 iso.

The main reference we have for the look of the film are day exterior shots from Cub (2014). Here are some screenshots, sorry if the quality isn’t that great since I just took this from a youtube upload: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KCIwB0yr4AJgfWxg6QIhspDGjx1yjvZG?usp=sharing

Would love to get your thoughts and suggestions on this. Thank you!

[Adrian Sierkowski]

I would recommend looking into some 4x4 mirror boards or at least shiny boards to provide the kind of back-light you see in those stills.

You can break them through some 4x4 opal if it's a bit to harsh.

I would also get 20x20 hi-lite for your overhead and certainly get a 12x12 ultra bounce (as it can also be a large neg in a pinch. )

 

For your 20x20 you'll need some good stands, at least grip head combos, as well as rope and bags to tie it off to trees in the event of wind. 12xs and 20xs become rather worrisome if a breeze pics up.

[Aapo Lettinen]

The most common issue in forest shoots is the huge green ambience from all directions and leds can be very useful countering that in tighter shots. For wides, that kind of fixtures may not do much more than just add accents... maybe if having very punchy lenses for them but the led lenses are usually not the kind of punchy like an hmi par would have and that combined with the smaller power fixtures may not be optimal for wides. Something like 2.5k hmi would be more useful for a bit wider shots but of course take the 500's if they are what is available, it will still look much better than no lights. The 60's may not be useful for exts, likely only work for tent interiors I think.

One trick when shooting in forest is to cover some of the ground with something neutral coloured, for example white or black tarp or molton to control green spill in shots where the foreground ground is not visible. Can help a lot in mediums and may not take that much time to do. Lights can be bounced from the surface of it too if needed 

[Akie Yano]

15 hours ago, Adrian Sierkowski said:

I would recommend looking into some 4x4 mirror boards or at least shiny boards to provide the kind of back-light you see in those stills.

You can break them through some 4x4 opal if it's a bit to harsh.

I would also get 20x20 hi-lite for your overhead and certainly get a 12x12 ultra bounce (as it can also be a large neg in a pinch. )

 

For your 20x20 you'll need some good stands, at least grip head combos, as well as rope and bags to tie it off to trees in the event of wind. 12xs and 20xs become rather worrisome if a breeze pics up.

Thank you for the tip! For the 4x4 mirror board, are you suggesting it to be bounced from the Forza 500 or from the sun? 

[Adrian Sierkowski]

From the sun. I don't really think those LEDs will do to much unless you're in a close. 500w led is a bit, but really doesn't compare to sunlight.

Could be interesting to use them though a light dome just off camera to help light faces/eyes (something I used to do with a joker 400 or 800 though a chimera many times).

 

[Akie Yano]

8 hours ago, aapo lettinen said:

The most common issue in forest shoots is the huge green ambience from all directions and leds can be very useful countering that in tighter shots. For wides, that kind of fixtures may not do much more than just add accents... maybe if having very punchy lenses for them but the led lenses are usually not the kind of punchy like an hmi par would have and that combined with the smaller power fixtures may not be optimal for wides. Something like 2.5k hmi would be more useful for a bit wider shots but of course take the 500's if they are what is available, it will still look much better than no lights. The 60's may not be useful for exts, likely only work for tent interiors I think.

One trick when shooting in forest is to cover some of the ground with something neutral coloured, for example white or black tarp or molton to control green spill in shots where the foreground ground is not visible. Can help a lot in mediums and may not take that much time to do. Lights can be bounced from the surface of it too if needed 

Thank you for the advice! I didn't mention it in my post but I did include a 20x20 black backing in our equipment list so I can use that to control the green spill. Thank you for the tip!

[Akie Yano]

57 minutes ago, Adrian Sierkowski said:

From the sun. I don't really think those LEDs will do to much unless you're in a close. 500w led is a bit, but really doesn't compare to sunlight.

Could be interesting to use them though a light dome just off camera to help light faces/eyes (something I used to do with a joker 400 or 800 though a chimera many times).

 

Ok, noted. I think I will try to just use the lights for medium wide to close ups. Thank you!

[Abdul Rahman Jamous]

there is a movie called "stardust" a lot of its scenes are shot in forest. the image is very decent looking yet I think it is not that complicated to achieve

[Albion Hockney]

unless its for very tight close ups or specialty shot those lights are not powerful enough for a natural effect for day exterior. I wouldn't even waste time bringing them or a generator to set.

in the 2nd shot of your scout photos the light is very flat, I would try to find another time of day to shoot that. 1 12x12 silk overhead is good for shots up to medium width so if you intended to shoot shots that wide that should be done with natural light.

the references you shared utilized large HMI's. likley an 18,000W light which is comparable to more then 20 of your 500W LED's

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Albion Hockney