Douglas Hunter

By percentage, how much bigger is the SD8 image area than a S8 gate? Anyone measured it?

I've supervised sessions at Spectra for S8mm, the results were solid, I will use them again. Naturally for 16mm you can go to the bigger labs such as Laser and Technicolor. I just did some 16m at Technicolor and the session was great. Closest I've ever come to having a colorist read my mind.

Sounds good, can't wait!

I think this is actually a very good question. I'm sure some people will say that the prism always takes the same amount of light, indeed that was my initial assumption. However when testing my Canon 814xl-s for light loss using a grey card and a hand held spot meter, I found that there appeared to be vairations in the amount of light loss. My camera is in good condition and I have done a rigorus focus and exposure test. This was the only loose end I didn't chase down. The way I deal with it is to work within an exposure range, favoring 1/2 stop - 1 stop over exposure in many situations. (except when shooting reversal of course in which case I try to work a little closer to exactly what I want).

Maybe you miss-typed, or maybe you are confused, but your assertion makes no sense at all. I'd say ALL filmmakers are going to miss 50 feet off of 400ft or 100ft load!!! and then wouldn't all those double exposures look interesting. . . . also they don't process 35. I wonder if you think people don't short end or something like that. I think we should be critical of a lab when they make a mistake or do something unethical. Further, I'm not a pro8mm booster at all, but I have seen many absurd claims made against pro8mm, this being one of the better examples. Catagorically no, no lab does what your above post suggests, PERIOD. It is impossible!

Regarding exposure two things: 1) Only use the onboard light meter if you know it works, if your camera has not been serviced or tested it might be better to use your hand held meter. The old meters in these cameras can go at any time, so you want to keep an eye on the readings it gives you. Several times, I've seen s8mm camera's meters die during shoots! 2) When using the on board light meter remember that it will only give you a normal exposure. There is a lot more to exposure than normal exposure. It sounds like you are pretty new to it, so don't worry about it now but in the long term you should strive to learn how to expose film in a way that is pleasing to you and that matches your easthetic goals.

I have to admit to doing a double take at this line. If it was a crystal converted 814XL-s for that price I would agree, that would be reasonable. In the MOS world for $800 its possible to get one's hands on a half decient Arri S or a Bolex, not serviced of course but still . . .

I second the notion that the 10mm Switar is a great lens. Curious though why are you locked into Bolex. Look around these days you can probably find a super 16 Arri SR I for a good deal and that would have some serious advantages over the Bolex (although I do love Bolex cameras)

Hey, Just wanted to let everyone know that I went to the new location on Saturday as they were moving. The new location seems to be a bigger and better laid out space, more attractive too. The new location is only a short drive from their old location. The only draw back looks like parking might be a little harder to find and they are still in a seedy section of noho. Of course anyone who knows noho knows that's a redundant thing to say. Also they have package the 100D and it sits in their fridge ready to purchase. So lets support ourselves and them but snatching it all up!

There are three common uses of the AP title (at least in TV productions) 1- In the best use of the title the AP is the person in charge of running post production. They deal directly with the EPs the network, they oversee all aspects of post, and attend the timing session, ADR sessions, mixes. etc. 2- Often in reality programming they give the title to someone who is a low leve assistant to a producer but this individual handles no significant tasks. They tend to do internet research and fetch coffee. 3- if you are sleeping with an EP on a show and hang out on set you can also get yourself an AP credit. But again this is pretty meangingless.

Don't be suprised that a bolex can produce beautiful footage. Some of the Bolex lenses are wonderful (switar 10mm for example) and with contemporary film stocks the sky (or 30 seconds, which ever comes first) is the limit!

Its what you DO with the camera that'll put you in or out of the club.

Right! thanks, I left out two things: First is that when zoomed in all the way on the distant object the lens should be focused at infinity. Second, that the method you suggested in the first thread was totally wrong. Thanks again for the editorial help!

A few weeks ago there was a thread concerning some 1014XL-s test footage, in which a discussion of how to focus the diopter came up, in which one or two rather er, interesting ideas on how this should be done were expressed. Since I was doing a camera test any way and I was curious about the focus on this camera I shot my own focusing test. There are two ways to focus the diopter on one of these cameras. method #1: The traditional method: Zoom in on something far away with sharp lines and good tonal contrast. Such as a large store sign. When zoomed all the way in, adjust the diopter until image is sharp and the split image comes together. This is the standard method that most people know and use, and no suprise, it works. The one thing to note is that as you zoom out you will notice the split image that was united when you were zoomed in will split again. This does not signal a need to refocus. your focus on your object is still good. Method #2: Aim your camera at a bright, tonally even, and evenly lit surface, throw the camera radically out of focus so that the image is a complete blurr. You will still be able to see the split image focusing circles just fine. Adjust the diopter until the split image focusing elements line up perfectly, then lock it down. This is the traditional method of focusing on a camera with a ground glass, you focus until the ground glass is sharp, but I did not think of trying it on this kind of camera until Kenji Luster the A camera operator on my show suggested it. Both of these methods will get your diopter focused correctly. When eye focusing these cameras it is important to follow Canon's instructions and to zoom in on your subject to focus, and then zoom out to the image size you want. Do not try to focus without zooming in. Measured focus: Perhaps not many super 8 users measure focus, but I did a measured focus test at F5.6 and focus for all witness marks was shapr when I projected the film. Granted this test would have been more accurate if I was more wide open but I was shooting under natural light so its what I could do.

video: It depends on what camera you are using. Standard DEF NTSC video has a rate of 29.97 FPS, some cameras do have 24FPS but the signal that is outputted is a 29.97 signal that needs to be converted to 24 fps in post. Sound: The use of mics depends on what you want. Lavs are omnidirectional shotguns are more unidirectional (as a general rule). The voices of your actors will sound a little flatter, a little more bass with a lav and you will pick up moref sound from the room. So a lav with a super 8 camera will have a higher risk of getting camera noise on your audio. A shotgun with a boom operator and picture framing with very little head room will allow you to get close and fairly clean sounding audio with less of the room in it. The best way to do it on a low budget would be to use a compact flash digital recorded, with shotgun mic and boom operator. You can choose to have a production sound mixer or set the levels based on rehersal and hope that no one gets too loud. In post your audio would be easy to get into the NLE and it would be constant speed, you would conform your picture to your audio. Shooting head and tail slates is the key to making this go smoothly. Never use the on board camera mic unless you want to use it as a guide track in post or you want the specific acoustic qualities that it gives you, this being, dirty, thin sound with your actors sounding like they are off mic. If you want clean audio a camcorder camera mic does not do the job. Personally I would not use the video camera and film together method.

This is an issue of some debate on these boards. The costs of shooting both Super 8 and 16 have increased over the years but is 16mm really that much more expensive that super 8? For me the answer is "it depends" since there are a few vairablers that need to be considered. First, most people need to rent a 16mm camera package Here in LA you can rent a good but baisc package for around $400 for a weekend and there are private individuals who will lend out their gear for less. Film stock and processing costs can be similar for both formats depending upon what film you want to use and where you buy & process it. The cheapest S8 film and processing will be less expensive, but that does not mean much if it does not give you the results you want. As for telecine, its pretty common here in LA that you can get industry standard 16mm telecine for less than you can for super 8. For what you want to do you will need a sound crew regardless of what format you are shooting so that would be the same. But if money is super tight for you and you've never done any production, consider video. 24p SD video and prosumer HD are all over the place these days they are low cost and allow you to see what you are doing on set.

Sean, I empathize with your situation, its really terrible but I think you are splitting the blame incorrectly. DHL should be getting most of your wrath, it was a DHL driver who decided to place a pouch style envelope under what must have been a really heavy load. So even if Pro8mm did a bad job of packaging your order the DHL staff still should have enough brains to not place a pouch under a heavy load, there simply is no excuse for that. As for Pro8mm they have the worst reputation of any lab in LA. That being the case one takes chances when working with them. I think part of the problem that may have effected you is that they appear to have a very high turn over rate with their staff. Finally, do not make assumptions in post production! If you want your film packaged a certain way for delivery it is 100% your responsibility to tell this to the party shipping your film. There is no room to assume that other people will do things they way you expect them to without proper comunication. One need not be curt or gruff about it, but filmmaking thrives on good communication, as a director / producer its your job to be a great comunicator.

I love the look of Persona, Its been a few months since I've watched it but I recall that the day interriors were lit so that the windows always played as the source. The night scenes played off the practicals,( those wonderful glass oil lamps) except for what in my opinion was the most beautiful scene in the film: The women walking around the rooms of the cottage in twilight. The lighting is very very soft in that scene, and we see a lot of the cottage in it, so if you want to do that sort of thing you will need a number of units.

Plus x is a very slow stock for shooting indoors. You are better off with tri-x. That being said none of us know what you mean when you say "decent picture." Are you looking for a real film Noir style in a small room, or maybe sitcome lighting, bright and very flat? This is the difference between a couple of open face 2ks and many banks of kinos!

This is the case, but the world of film and TV is really driven by relationships. A good sales rep for a vendor loves to develop relationships. If you present yourself in a way that they think of you as a friendly and good person to work with, and potentially a long term client then you will get good service, because they want you to stick with them. Keep this in mind when talking to any vendor in the film and video world.

Bruce Block uses some of these exact images as example in his wonderful graduate class at USC. Flat space and rectangles are the main visual elements here, also good use of tonal contrast to shape the frame. The visual elements are very well controlled in this film; and it takes a lot more than just the DP to achieve this level of control. Everyone needs to be on board from pre-production to editorial. The film's look is no accident!

Jordi, "best" is not a good term to use. Its all pretty subjective. If you are looking for the video copy of your footage that has the greatest potential of looking close to your film footage then transferr to Digibeta in a session that you supervise, on the best quality telecine you can find; or go directly to hard drive using a higher end codec. If by "best" you mean the faithfullness of the image to the camera original do not transfer to DVD. In that regard DVD is not good, nor is mini DV. That being said it is a matter of standards, and pleanty of people on this list would be perfectly happy with a mini DV transfer. On the other hand I'm not sure that transferring Super 8 to HD is the way to go. I'm not certain that HD will look that much better than digibeta. With 16mm, specifically super 16mm going to HD tape or an HD codec such as DVCPRO HD is your best best. So you need to define "best" for yourself and weigh that against the economic factors, and your desired work flow to make the decision.

Stephen, It sounds like some of your difficulty may have been caused by lack of experience on your part, it sounds like you made a lot of assumptions. There are a few basic things that you could have done to make the experience better for yourself. 1) When dealing with a lab comunication is essential (no duh, I know.) dealing with an out of town lab is a real challenge. Take it seriously. First, you should request a specific sales rep be assigned to your project. One individual who is your primary contact and knows everything about your project. On smaller projects they don't often do this but if you ask I imagine they would since its no extra cost for them. Second, you should write a post procedural memo for your rep so he or she has documentat on exactly how to deal with your project. 2) Be more realistic in creating a schedule. When you create a post schedule you need to include time for problems, and the unknown. 3) Finally, UPS and the other services are far from perfect so you need to be on top of tracking your shipments from the time they get picked up from the lab. They often make mistakes but they are also very good about bending over backwards to fix them. I've got the stories to prove it. 4) Get a friend to be your post supervisor. Someone who is detailed oriented, pragmatic, and not emotionally involved in the project. That way they can be an advocate for your project, without getting angry etc.

Maurizio, First off all, I don't buy the idea that a one frame per second difference in film speed was making a noticable difference in how the footage looked. Realize that you are talking about a difference of about one 4/100th of a second per second difference which is difficult for the human brain to percieve without a specific refrence to compare it to. Unless of course you were looking at sync, in which case many people can see a one frame difference because the dialogue provides a specific refrence. If the difference is noticable and big I'd guess that you were seening several frames per second difference say 3 - 4 frames per second or more. As for your camera its unlikely that your camera runs true to speed. Super 8 cameras rarely do, but they also do not run at a constant speed. They speed up and or slow down. that is the nature of the beast. If you've had your camera serviced, cleaned and the frame rate re-calibrated then you are going to be as close to 24 as you can get. As for your actual question, I think you need to make sure that frame rate is actually the issue. If it is and the difference is really 1-2 frames per second then you should expirement, see which method is nost pleasing to you. It needs to be based on your prefence because you are detecting a problem that most folks will never be aware of.

O.K. looked at my footage from the test of my 814XL-S that I did on Saturday. The BTL seems to work just fine, and I was getting a difference of 1/3 to 1/2 of a stop between my hand held spot meter and the BTL, with the BTL being more open than the hand held, which makes perfect sense.